Modern Flashlights and an EMP Pulse

I've been lurking for a few months since a good friend of mine got me into hi-end flashlights. I currently have an ITP-SC1 as my EDC, an Olight M-21X which I bought myself for Christmas (Love it) as well as a few AA Mini Mags with TerraLux 140 lumen upgrades. It's not much but I am on my way! Lol

I have also been building my first bug-out bag and an issue came up regarding the perfect light to carry in that bag. As I'm sure you guys know, 2012 is not only the Mayan end of the world BUT it's the impact year in the Solar Flare cycle which goes up and down every 11 years.

Whether it's a huge Solar Flare or a Nuke, what effect does an EMP Pulse have on the circuitry in modern LED flashlights? PWM or CC, will they survive and operate or not? Maybe this has been covered but I couldn't find it. Idea's?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Please search "HDS and EMP." Watch your monitor explode.

You sir, have a very good question. EMPs or solar flares have been heard to cause blackouts, mainly through overload or over current in electric appliances. I remember reading how during such an event as a solar flare, you could use radios without batteries! So maybe EMP proofing an expensive flashlight is a good idea, if I knew how to. I really hope fried curcuits dont happen in my lightscause that would really suck.

Best regards,

What is a bug out bag?

Oh, and welcome my friend, to CPF!

Ditto what Shane said...

firelord777 said:

What is a bug out bag?

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An emergency-preparedness bag full of survival goodies and zombie repellant. Basically it is your SHTF bag. (You do know what SHTF is, right?)

A bug out bag is "The bag you want to have when you suddenly have to go." It's generally one packed with the essentials and useful things.

Solar and nuclear EMP are different, if I understand correctly. You can read oodles and bunches about the physics, but it's basically when something makes the Earth's magnetic field move. This damages electronics partly by inducing currents in long conductors. The main concern for us humans is that long metal things will be damaged, like the power grid.

There are a million and one threads about EMP (google site:Candlepowerforums.com EMP), but basically, keep your nice light in a metal box and it will be much safer.

Thanks guys, still learning to navigate the site.

There are so many angles to consider on all of these issues ... its nice to find a spot with so much combined knowledge and community.

Just ordered a TerraLux 220 from Battery Junction on sale, my collection grows! Now I just need to decide what will be my first SureFire.

AnAppleSnail said:

There are a million and one threads about EMP (google site:Candlepowerforums.com EMP)

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+ 1,000,001
The search results will yield many threads on this topic. Happy reading,

So back to the Bug-out bag issue ...

Would U guys go for having a Solar Re-charger with rechargeable batteries as the best solution?

Another +1++ on searching for EMP on CPF.

Not to short-change any of the many threads, but .... partially from my own past: As AnAppleSnail wrote, solar flares or strong electric/magnetic (Maxwells equations) pulses can generate significant voltages in conductors. The longer the conductor, the higher the voltage. Voltages of over 20 kilovolts per metre have been reported. "Modern" military vehicles generally have some protection designed into the ICs or via various diode clamps across input lines. Most cars have various kinds of pulse/noise protection on the supposed 14.6v lines from the alternator, but nothing against the level that would be generated by an EMP or equivalent.

Since EMF or voltage numbers vary widely depending on the length of the conductor and strength of the magnetic pulse or pulsation, a few rather off-topic examples are perhaps better. Example: A small nuclear weapon (Starfish Prime) detonated above the mid-Pacific ocean surprised a lot of scientists by causing considerable electrical damage in Hawaii some 900 miles away, knocking out various electrical and electronic devices. Example: an NSP electrical dispatcher in Minneapolis MN - who controls the flow of electricity throughout the network by buying and selling electricity - told me that on some rare days they cannot raise the source voltage high enough to overcome the naturally generated EMF from solar flares in the long lines coming down from the big hydro-electric plants Canada to obtain any signficant power into the power grid around Minneapolis/St.Paul. Instead they may have to purchase power from the TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority). Keep in mind that the power lines running north/south are "moving" because of the earth's rotation and therefore would be "cutting magnetic flux lines" caused by a signficant solar flare, thus generating many thousands of volts EMF. Power lines running east/west would not have the solar flare problem. Example: Once upon a time in a place far away, I could see the antenna from an operating 5KW AM radio station but could not pick up it's signal - all because of intense solar flares and absolutely spectacular Northern Lights.

Back OT: I suspect that short metal flashlights would be mostly OK after an EMP, long plastic flashlights probably not. All depends on how long the conductors are inside of the light and how close the EMP pulse is. Realistically, we would have a lot more to worry about from a high-altitude EMP pulse than whether our flashlights are functional...

Codecracker said:

Thanks guys, still learning to navigate the site.

There are so many angles to consider on all of these issues ... its nice to find a spot with so much combined knowledge and community.

Just ordered a TerraLux 220 from Battery Junction on sale, my collection grows! Now I just need to decide what will be my first SureFire.

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Piece of advice, stop buying inexpensive lights. They won't satisfy you and you'll end up selling them. I went through the same thing last year. Get yourself an HDS, a couple Surefire's, and some Malkoff's. Of course I guess learning is part of the process and the fun but don't waste too much time. And get some over time at your job.

The naked truth, Tommygun45, is that no one knows whether a given torch will be affected by either a coronal mass ejection or a nuclear EMP. Neither of those events has happened, and to the best of my knowledge LED flashlights have not been tested in an EMP simulator.

Nonetheless, there is an easy and relatively inexpensive way to protect various kinds of electronics from either natural or man-made EMP: http://techprotectbag.com/

Oh, and :welcome:

The power of a dedicated community of like-minded individuals is amazing.

At everyone's encouragement, I have made multiple passes at using the search function, message received.

a) AnAppleSnail, Kestrel, Moldyoldy ... I'm learning to become a search fiend.

b) Tommygun45, following your advice, I'm dumping the TerraLux purchase and changing to a TI CA1 AAA which will inhabit my keychain and be a back-up to my ITP-SC1 as an EDC.

c) Moldyoldy ... love the tech detail (I actually knew about Starfish Prime but not in that detail) and I truly appreciate the analysis.

d) Buckley, thanks for the link and the Welcome. As my knowledge and collection grows, I hope to one day be able to contribute meaningful opinions back into the community.

Thanks to all.

A matter of personal interest, EMP presents a return of the dark ages, perhaps even worse since in those days people were used to living under those rough conditions. At a recent conference on this topic in DC this question was raised. it is my understanding that a direct drive LED with no chip/ or IC device would function after an EMP attack. 1.5 volts on a AA battery suddenly becomes a major source of illumination

Ref the EMP pulse: Either the history or military channel demonstrated in a video that a flying model chopper (electric) would be burned out by an EMP and crash. A running car (Taurus?) underneath the EMP field was also disabled - dead microchips - although the electrical motor parts such as power windows still functioned. BTW, The White Sands Missile Range tests for EMP susceptibility, besides many other types of testing...

Ref the coronal mass ejection (CME): These have been observed more than once. In particular, what is now referred to as the Solar Storm of 1859 was evidently traced back to a CME that was ejected directly at the planet Earth. Although the electrical systems of that day were quite crude and therefore survived rather well, the telegraph lines went nuts. Copious sparks were reported spewing out from most telegraph keys. At least one building burned down from those sparks.

Keep in mind that NASA predicts a solar max by the end of 2012 and early 2013.

Back on a flashlight topic: while a CME directed at the Earth is not likely to wipe out flashlights, it is likely to cause signicant disruption in the electrical grid. meaning long blackouts. FWIW, I was in Syracuse NY during the major power blackout of 1965. Flashlights were the only means of pedestrian lighting for a couple days. it was really weird to see the city of Syracuse go progressively black and most of the backup generators stopped after a few to about 24 hrs.

Soooo, How long can you run your flashlights w/o charging during a daily living cycle, meaning not <1 lumen either?

Uh, what is SHTF?

firelord777 said:

Uh, what is SHTF?

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this link can be useful sometimes:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shtf

firelord777 said:

Uh, what is SHTF?

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Look HERE