Rant: Dear flashlight manufacturers--please make simple, no BS lights again.

So, I was looking for an Tactical (by which i mean "for shooting people with guns at night", not "It's matte black") EDC light with the following specifications:


-LED
-2x CR123
-Clip for bezel-down carry
-Tubular design or minimally flared bezel (think surefire E2 size) for comfortable bezel-down pocket carry
-120-200 lumens
-Single output
-Momentary only switch
-Reputable manufacture/Good quality control (not a frankenlight, something with a factory warranty)


I ended up buying a used surefire LX2 off ebay for $120 because I don't think i should pay more than I make in an entire day after taxes for a quality flashlight. Turns out that this is the only light IN THE ENTIRE WORLD that meets these specifications. Now i understand it's technically dual output, but the important part was deathgrip-thumbmash gets you 120-200 lumens and releasing deathgrip-thumbmash gets you zero lumens. This has to be the only dual output setup i even remotely like.


Every single manufacturer, even surefire to some extent, has become obsessed with gimmicks. Multiple output settings, flashy disco modes, obscene max lumen output. Even the wonderful LX2 I just purchaced is apparently getting ruined for 2012 with a new retina-searing-backsplash-inducing 500 lumen emitter. It's supposed to be a tactical flashlight, not a searchlight.


Can at least one single reputable manufacturer start making simple, affordable no BS lights again? You know, the kind where press means on, release means off, and the only thing it does is give you a reasonable amount of usable light?

My Icon Rogue is within reason. One press and its on. One press and its off. But the catch is it has two levels of brightness.

Clicky switches (of all varieties) are inappropriate for tactical use.

Amen!

victory said:

Clicky switches (of all varieties) are inappropriate for tactical use.

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Because of the gentle clicking sound?

Victory: I believe there are momentary-only clickers for P60-style lights. I wish you luck in your search!

AnAppleSnail, I believe what he was trying to say is that a TRUE Tactical flashlight is to be used with quick, brief flashes of light and should have NO clicky. Flash & move, flash & move. The light stays on no longer then needed for a "quick look" & then off.

At least that is how I was taught the use of a flashlight in a tactical environment.

My .02 FWIW YMMV

AnAppleSnail said:

Because of the gentle clicking sound?

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No. Just about anything you are going to do is louder than a clicky switch and considering it's going to cause the light to discharge the click is probably the least of your concern when it comes to giving away your position.

When employing a light with a firearm, one briefly turns the light on, engages as necessarily, extinguishes the light, then moves or changes speed/direction (flash & move). The problem with clicky switches is that under stress people end up mashing the button and locking their lights on. A momentary-only switch (like the original 6p) is far superior for this purpose.

Most of the "tactical" light market seems to have forgotten this.

While you can still get some lights like this from surefire, they are quite expensive, and even their budget lights are 300% more than they were just a few years ago. The LX2, which is what I ended up going with, is the only light that met my criteria (a 6P/G2 sized bezel can be quite uncomfortable to carry bezel down in a pair of well-fitting jeans.) These are fairly common criteria for people that want a light for serious purposes.

Just a noob here, but don't some manufacturer's offer pressure switches for firearm use?.....unless they are also considered gimmicks too. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Learning quite a bit from this short thread.

surefite 6px tactical - no bs, $100.00, don't know about mounting on a weapon

buds224 said:

Just a noob here, but don't some manufacturer's offer pressure switches for firearm use?.....unless they are also considered gimmicks too. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Learning quite a bit from this short thread.

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What this discussion is about is a handheld light that can be used in conjunction with a firearm, not a weapon-mounted light, which is what you would find with a pressure switch.

That being said, many people, myself included, don't like pressure switches because they can cause negligent discharges of the light by simply bumping them. People place them too close to their support hand and they are very touchy. Furthermore, they can be finicky and the wires can get caught on gear. The light i have on my rifle is a simple Surefire G2X (which i purchased before they doubled the price), with the standard momentary only tailcap. mounted on the side of my handguard. I can activate it by pushing forward with the thumb of my support hand while maintaining a firing grip on the gun. It's a very deliberate action and unlikely to be done accidentally under stress. I even put a piece of duct tape on the tailcap so it can't loosen or tighten on its own by rubbing on gear causing the light to either go constant-on or not activate.

Not having the light go off when you don't want it to is as important as not having the gun go off when you don't want it to.

victory said:

What this discussion is about is a handheld light that can be used in conjunction with a firearm, not a weapon-mounted light, which is what you would find with a pressure switch.

That being said, many people, myself included, don't like pressure switches because they can cause negligent discharges of the light by simply bumping them. People place them too close to their support hand and they are very touchy. Furthermore, they can be finicky and the wires can get caught on gear. The light i have on my rifle is a simple Surefire G2X (which i purchased before they doubled the price), with the standard momentary only tailcap. mounted on the side of my handguard. I can activate it by pushing forward with the thumb of my support hand while maintaining a firing grip on the gun. It's a very deliberate action and unlikely to be done accidentally under stress.

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Very informative. Thank you.

You are correct buds224, they did, but many are getting away from that. This is why I still carry either a (old style) SF 6/9 P w/ a Malkoff M61 (outside use/ EDC carry w/ handgun) or SF G2/3 w/ a Malkoff M61L (inside use w/ handgun). Best combo's that I've found.

My .02 FWIW YMMV

Dougcov said:

surefite 6px tactical - no bs, $100.00, don't know about mounting on a weapon

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I use it's G2X brother on a GG&G mount for my rifle. Once again, this isn't about weapon mounted lights. I'm speaking of tactical handhelds for EDC. The G2X and 6PX are good lights and might work well with an aftermarket clip if you wear baggy pants all the time, but i find the head too large for comfortable bezel-down carry in a pair of well-fitting jeans or uniform pants.

I'm not looking for light suggestions. I already have a light that fits my criteria (Surefire LX2). The issue is that this light is pretty much the only of its kind and absolutely no one is making affordable lights that are appropriate for tactical use anymore.

RWT1405 said:

You are correct buds224, they did, but many are getting away from that. This is why I still carry either a (old style) SF 6/9 P w/ a Malkoff M61 (outside use/ EDC carry w/ handgun) or SF G2/3 w/ a Malkoff M61L (inside use w/ handgun). Best combo's that I've found.

My .02 FWIW YMMV

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Props for Malkoff, BTW. I do have one of his drop-ins in an old 6P mounted to another rifle and it's great. He is one of the few people that understands there is such a thing as "too much light" and continues to offer lower output drop-ins. A general rule of thumb is "1 lumen per yard to see, 2 lumens per yard to identify" I find the sweet spot for a tactical light to be between 120 and 200 lumens. Any brighter than that and you're just blinding yourself with backsplash indoors (even my G2X at 200 lumens can be borderline in a white-walled apartment) and not gaining any distance to identify a target at which you could justifiably take a shot. Shooting around cover for instance, If you don't clear the light totally and get splash off the cover, you blind yourself, give away you position and can't see beyond the splash back. The brighter the light, the worse this is.

So what does Surefire announce for 2012? 500-700 lumen weaponlights. Stupid.

I was going to suggest a SureFire AZ-2 but I read through the thread and saw your remark

victory said:

... a 6P/G2 sized bezel can be quite uncomfortable to carry bezel down in a pair of well-fitting jeans...

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and so I won't because the AZ-2 is similar in diameter to a 6P. You can put the LX2 head on the AZ-2 body, though. You'd get an LX2 with a combatgrip body which I assume would be even better for use with a gun. However, you would be losing the clip and the combatgrip rings may impede ingress and egress in a pair of well-fitting jeans.

I wish they made a CX2 (C2 with an LX2 head).

Machete God said:

I was going to suggest a SureFire AZ-2 but I read through the thread and saw your remark and so I won't because the AZ-2 is similar in diameter to a 6P. You can put the LX2 head on the AZ-2 body, though. You'd get an LX2 with a combatgrip body which I assume would be even better for use with a gun. However, you would be losing the clip and the combatgrip rings may impede ingress and egress in a pair of well-fitting jeans.

I wish they made a CX2 (C2 with an LX2 head).

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There are many different ways to hold a flashlight in conjunction with a firearm. The Rogers/Surefire method is the one you are thinking about which the AZ-2 was designed for (with the light sticking out from between the fingers). I personally don't like that techniques as i find that despite getting two hands on the gun, the support hand holding the light really doesn't do much as far as controlling the gun. The only way to get a real two-hand grip on a pistol while using a light is with a weapon mounted light. With a seperate light, I would rather just shoot with one hand and light with the other.

Furthermore, activating the light by modulating the pressure with which you squeeze the back of the light against your dominant hand i find leads to many negligent discharges of the light. Under stress, most people just deathgrip. I prefer using my thumb to activate the light because i can make the conscious decision the move my thumb on and off of the tailcap. With the Rogers method, the tailcap is in constant contact with the back of your dominant hand and relies on you maintaining a precise amount of pressure to keep it from turning on.

Frankly, I think even surefire has gone away from teaching that technique. When I teach low-light tactics, almost all of the students end up preferring to use the "cheek index" method once they get exposure to a number of different techniques.

If you do already use the Rogers techniques successfully, it's very easy to modify any light for it with a couple wraps of paracord and some duct tape.

Victory, I have read all your post and understand that you prefer simple UIs and one mode of brightness. Something you might consider is HDS, even though it uses only 1 cr123, because it can be programmed as you wish. It can be programmed for momentary only and you can choose from 20+ light levels. It has a reputation that rivals Surefire's in durabilty and customer service. Once programmed the customization can be disabled so no chance of accidently altering the settings. It is also very comfortable to carry as you described. Just throwing it out there.

The ArmyTek Viking S seems to be a very good light. I have done a review on it and its UI allows for no BS max output single mode. Did I mention its very bright?

flashlight nut said:

Victory, I have read all your post and understand that you prefer simple UIs and one mode of brightness. Something you might consider is HDS, even though it uses only 1 cr123, because it can be programmed as you wish. It can be programmed for momentary only and you can choose from 20+ light levels. It has a reputation that rivals Surefire's in durabilty and customer service. Once programmed the customization can be disabled so no chance of accidently altering the settings. It is also very comfortable to carry as you described. Just throwing it out there.

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I've heard good things about them (do they actually use a non-clicky switch?) but i do actually have reasons for requiring a 2-cell light. For one, the longer shaft allows you to effectively utilize the light as an impact weapon. Also, when reloading or clearing a malfunction on a firearm,a standard technique is to tuck the light in your armpit. A short, 1-cell light tends to get lost when you do this.

firelord777 said:

The ArmyTek Viking S seems to be a very good light. I have done a review on it and its UI allows for no BS max output single mode. Did I mention its very bright?

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Not familiar with that brand. Do they have a website? Very bright is good for some things, but anything over 200 lumens is too bright for tactical work. Also, clicky switch?

As i've said, it really is difficult to find a light with these basic specs.