Police Officer Backup Flashlight Question/Comparison - Strion LED HP vs Polystinger

vacbanned4 · Jan 19, 2012

Hey there guys, I'm new to the candlepower forums - thanks for having me.

I'm a police officer and lately I've been researching good backup flashlights. I had a Streamlight Stinger DS LED HP purchased from Botach Tactical which was good, but had to return it because of a bad battery and broken charger. Since then, I've done many hours of research and have been inundated with so much information that I simply can't come to a rational decision - thus I need help from you fine people.

My first question is as follows. Is there are significant difference in the brightness between a Streamlight Strion LED HP, Polystinger DS, or Stinger DS LED HP? I've read the charts, but some people have said the 160 lumen Strion is just as bright, if not brighter, than the much larger 200 lumen Stinger DS LED HP. Is there any credence to this? If so, why would a lower lumen flashlight be capable of throwing out more light than a higher lumen flashlight? Does the battery come into play here? Also, are there any benefits to the Strion LED HP vs the Strion LED?

Secondly, of Lithium Ion and Nickel Cadmium batteries - is it really a bad selection for me to get a polystinger or stinger DS LED HP? I've heard that the nicad batteries are not preferable for long term use and that Lithium Ion is preferred. True? False?

Thirdly, in case I'm just being ignorant (forgive me) I just need help getting a great flashlight that I can use on duty every day and not have to worry about it working every time without a problem. So with that in mind, here is a list of my criteria for my belt mounted backup duty flashlight:

1. Strong, Durable, and Bright. Just as bright as the streamlight polystinger or brighter! Also strong enough to withstand drops and possible blunt force application.
2. Water Resistant or Water Proof.
3. Varying light intensity levels and I'd prefer a strobe feature.
4. Rechargeable - preferably with lithium ion batteries and a piggyback fast charger with ac/dc cables.
5. Small enough to fit on my duty belt, but large enough to hold under my arm during traffic stops.
6. Long runtime, able to be used the whole night during stops without the battery dying.
7. Two buttons preferred, but not required (Tailcap and side).
8. Good amount of throw (am I using this word properly?) to illuminate larger areas during foot pursuits or building searches.

Anyway, that's all I have for now. If you guys could also give me a brief list of sites to purchase your flashlight recommendation from, I would much appreciate it.

Thank you very much. I hope to actively contribute to this forum as I become more knowledgeable about flashlights over the coming years.

Imon · Jan 20, 2012

Well, there are many factors that come into play when you consider throw.
Also lumens measures the total light emitted from the flashlight not the throw. So think of it like this - say a typical lightbulb puts out 1000 lumens, it sounds bright but because the light is not directionally focused like in a flashlight, the light radiates out in all directions and doesn't throw far.
The Strion has a large, smooth parabolic reflector. It's no surprise that it throws pretty well but you have to deal with the large bezel diameter.

As for battery type definitely go with Li-ion. It has a much higher energy density than NiCd not to mention high electrical potential energy (Voltage). With Li-ion your light could run longer and be brighter.

As for the quality of Streamlight I like them but I've since sold or given away most of my Streamlights - it's more of a personal preference thing than anything else. I think Streamlights have a hard time wowing some flashaholics. Not sure I would use the flashlight for blunt force application though ... some Streamlights have very thin body walls and, I hate to say this, a weak feel to them. As for being waterproof ... well they're all IPX4 according to Streamlight which is disappointing. This basically means the lights can deal with splashing water but are not meant or designed to handle dunks or immersions.

Anyways, one reason I like Streamlight is that they include a detailed fact sheet of all their lights:
Stinger LED HP and Stinger DS LED HP
Polystinger DS LED
Strion LED HP http://www.streamlight.com/documents/fact-sheet/227.pdf

vacbanned4 · Jan 20, 2012

Imon said:
Well, there are many factors that come into play when you consider throw.
Also lumens measures the total light emitted from the flashlight not the throw. So think of it like this - say a typical lightbulb puts out 1000 lumens, it sounds bright but because the light is not directionally focused like in a flashlight, the light radiates out in all directions and doesn't throw far.
The Strion has a large, smooth parabolic reflector. It's no surprise that it throws pretty well but you have to deal with the large bezel diameter.

As for battery type definitely go with Li-ion. It has a much higher energy density than NiCd not to mention high electrical potential energy (Voltage). With Li-ion your light could run longer and be brighter.

As for the quality of Streamlight I like them but I've since sold or given away most of my Streamlights - it's more of a personal preference thing than anything else. I think Streamlights have a hard time wowing some flashaholics. Not sure I would use the flashlight for blunt force application though ... some Streamlights have very thin body walls and, I hate to say this, a weak feel to them. As for being waterproof ... well they're all IPX4 according to Streamlight which is disappointing. This basically means the lights can deal with splashing water but are not meant or designed to handle dunks or immersions.

Anyways, one reason I like Streamlight is that they include a detailed fact sheet of all their lights:
Stinger LED HP and Stinger DS LED HP
Polystinger DS LED
Strion LED HP

Thanks for the reply.

With everything you've mentioned - what would be a suitable light for my purposes? The primary function of my backup light on the duty belt is to illuminate cars on traffic stops, clear buildings for alarm calls, and occasionally a foot chase through a dark area.

GaAslamp · Jan 20, 2012

vacbanned4 said:
Hey there guys, I'm new to the candlepower forums - thanks for having me.

:welcome:

vacbanned4 said:
My first question is as follows. Is there are significant difference in the brightness between a Streamlight Strion LED HP, Polystinger DS, or Stinger DS LED HP?

While it is certainly possible to notice the difference between 160, 185, and 200 lumens respectively (all else being equal), to the human eye the difference is far less pronounced than one would expect from comparing the numbers, at least until you're looking at something far enough away to make the illumination significantly dimmer.

vacbanned4 said:
I've read the charts, but some people have said the 160 lumen Strion is just as bright, if not brighter, than the much larger 200 lumen Stinger DS LED HP. Is there any credence to this?

There are several factors that may be at play here. First, you have to make sure that you're comparing similar beam profiles, as some people may perceive long throwers (the HP models with the larger reflector) as being brighter because they're looking at the intensity of the hotspot, while on the flip side others may perceive "floodier" beams as being brighter because they're better at lighting up interior rooms or other things at short distances. Both of these flashlight models have long-throw and floodier versions, so I'm not sure what is being compared to what, and by whom.

As for total overall output, which is what lumens measure, there are at least two factors involved. One is how the human eye perceives brightness, as mentioned above, which minimizes the perceived difference between 160 and 200 lumens to begin with--when bouncing the beams off a nearby white wall, at least. And the other is the output curves of these flashlights--neither of them have perfectly "flat" and level output regulation, so neither output 160 or 200 lumens for their entire runtimes on high. According to Streamlight's own specs (which are actually pretty trustworthy these days), the Stinger DS LED HP starts out at 200 lumens, but declines to about 159 lumens within the first half-hour, thereafter holding quite steady for the next 1.25 hours or so. In comparison, the Strion LED HP starts out at 160 lumens and declines gradually toward 126 lumens at the 2-hour mark, where it drops out of regulation. So while the Stinger is brighter than the Strion over the vast majority of their runtimes, when freshly charged the Strion--at least for a few minutes--is about as bright as the Stinger is most of the time.

To sum up, the Stinger is brighter than the Strion, but sometimes they're the same brightness, and the difference is not that noticeable at short distances anyway. Given the same reflector (which the HP versions appear to share, more or less), you'll begin to notice more of a difference as you look farther out, though.

vacbanned4 said:
If so, why would a lower lumen flashlight be capable of throwing out more light than a higher lumen flashlight?

It isn't, because lumens measure their total outputs. You have to be careful with the word "throw," however, because in the flashlight world it relates to the beam pattern as well as output. A flashlight with lower output can "out-throw" (i.e. makes things visible farther away) another flashlight with higher output if the former has optics that concentrate its light into a smaller pattern with higher intensity. In your case, it's irrelevant because you're comparing the HP versions of both the Stinger and Strion, which appear (based on their specs) to use the same reflector, so the Stinger DS LED HP will always out-throw the Strion LED HP, sometimes by a little and sometimes by more, by virtue of its higher output (in lumens).

vacbanned4 said:
Does the battery come into play here?

Not in general--only in the effects they may have on these two specific flashlights and the people who designed them, which in this case isn't much, at least with respect to output.

vacbanned4 said:
Also, are there any benefits to the Strion LED HP vs the Strion LED?

The Strion LED HP has a narrower body (albeit a same-sized head), has half the weight, and is slightly shorter than the Stinger DS LED HP. On the other hand, in terms of output, throw, and regulation the Stinger has minor advantages. In terms of battery type, I don't know about these two flashlights specifically, but in my general experience NiCd (Stinger) and Li-ion (Strion) batteries both start to go south shortly after you begin using them, and degrade noticeably after 2-3 years. NiCd batteries theoretically have the disadvantage of "memory effect," but in practice I think it's overstated (I've seen Li-ion batteries do weird things, too, like occasionally reaching full voltage without actually being fully charged). I've probably had the best experiences overall with NiMH batteries, but for some reason they're only available in Streamlight flashlights sold in Europe. :shrug:

vacbanned4 said:
Secondly, of Lithium Ion and Nickel Cadmium batteries - is it really a bad selection for me to get a polystinger or stinger DS LED HP? I've heard that the nicad batteries are not preferable for long term use and that Lithium Ion is preferred. True? False?

Li-ion batteries have certain advantages such as energy density in terms of weight (as well as volume in comparison to NiCd), and no memory effect, but they have a relatively limited shelf life, and will noticeably and permanently degrade over a couple of years even when they're not being used. That's been my experience, at least. Their advantages still make them preferable, but they're not a panacea, especially over the long term--I've used some NiCd and NiMH batteries for years and years, and have had to replace Li-ions far more often, on the average.

vacbanned4 said:
1. Strong, Durable, and Bright. Just as bright as the streamlight polystinger or brighter!

Both the Stinger DS LED HP and Strion LED HP are "brighter" than the PolyStinger in the sense that they will "throw" farther (if that's what you're looking for), due to their larger reflectors. All three are of similar brightness in terms of total output, roughly speaking, with the Stinger DS LED HP in the lead.

vacbanned4 said:
6. Long runtime, able to be used the whole night during stops without the battery dying.

How much cumulative runtime would that take? I think that their chargers can be used in your vehicle, in any case.

Imon said:
As for battery type definitely go with Li-ion. It has a much higher energy density than NiCd not to mention high electrical potential energy (Voltage). With Li-ion your light could run longer and be brighter.

The voltage of each cell doesn't matter in this case, nor do any purely theoretical advantages--all that counts is the final result, and in this case the NiCd-powered Stinger DS LED HP, though larger and heavier, is in fact brighter and throws farther than the Li-ion-powered Strion LED HP.

vacbanned4 said:
With everything you've mentioned - what would be a suitable light for my purposes? The primary function of my backup light on the duty belt is to illuminate cars on traffic stops, clear buildings for alarm calls, and occasionally a foot chase through a dark area.

Out of curiosity, what is your primary flashlight and what do you use it for? Or do you call any flashlight on your belt a backup? I just want to get a more complete sense of your lighting needs while on duty before making any recommendations.

PhillyRube · Jan 20, 2012

We are limited to the Surfire 6P since it is also our carbine light: pull it off your belt and into the holder. That said, I carry in my pocket a Solarforce L2, which is a commercial production light, but I have it modded with a different light and battery, so it is pushing close to 900 lumens. Of course that will only last 15-20 minutes, but again, it is a back-up.

bkumanski · Jan 20, 2012

Depending on where you work (rural vs urban) I may stay away from the HP heads for regular duty use. They do throw well, but the overall spill suffers considerably, making it not a very good choice for t-stops and foot chases. The Strion regular head has pretty good throw so the HP head really doesn't add to the "backup" benefit much and the Stinger HP DS is just too big and really has no spill. A regular Stinger head is probably better for the closer stuff and will illuminate a yard/car/building better than the HP will (unless you need to look across a big alfalfa field or something). And why the DS? This adds length. You can get one with a tail or body switch depending on what you prefer, but the DS thing just seems gimmicky and adds too much to a light on your waist. As far as memory and runtimes, if you burn it down every day, NiCds are OK, and there are several makers of the better NiMh packs for them you can pick up for under $10. Streamlights are great if you want a no-fuss cradle charge solution. I used one for years with no issues (and they have much better optics and LEDs now) but eventually switched to Malkoff. I have field tested respect for the Streamlight products as with Surefire, but I find the Malkoffs have that little something extra I crave (if you are willing to open them up to charge the batteries instead of a cradle charge) and are just as police/military friendly and durable.

BTW, I "retired" my Streamlight LED poly with the hybrid reflector for a Malkoff Wildcat. Same relative size and fits in the stinger holster well. So does the Hounddog FYI

vacbanned4 · Jan 20, 2012

GaAslamp said:
:welcome:

While it is certainly possible to notice the difference between 160, 185, and 200 lumens respectively (all else being equal), to the human eye the difference is far less pronounced than one would expect from comparing the numbers, at least until you're looking at something far enough away to make the illumination significantly dimmer.

There are several factors that may be at play here. First, you have to make sure that you're comparing similar beam profiles, as some people may perceive long throwers (the HP models with the larger reflector) as being brighter because they're looking at the intensity of the hotspot, while on the flip side others may perceive "floodier" beams as being brighter because they're better at lighting up interior rooms or other things at short distances. Both of these flashlight models have long-throw and floodier versions, so I'm not sure what is being compared to what, and by whom.

As for total overall output, which is what lumens measure, there are at least two factors involved. One is how the human eye perceives brightness, as mentioned above, which minimizes the perceived difference between 160 and 200 lumens to begin with--when bouncing the beams off a nearby white wall, at least. And the other is the output curves of these flashlights--neither of them have perfectly "flat" and level output regulation, so neither output 160 or 200 lumens for their entire runtimes on high. According to Streamlight's own specs (which are actually pretty trustworthy these days), the Stinger DS LED HP starts out at 200 lumens, but declines to about 159 lumens within the first half-hour, thereafter holding quite steady for the next 1.25 hours or so. In comparison, the Strion LED HP starts out at 160 lumens and declines gradually toward 126 lumens at the 2-hour mark, where it drops out of regulation. So while the Stinger is brighter than the Strion over the vast majority of their runtimes, when freshly charged the Strion--at least for a few minutes--is about as bright as the Stinger is most of the time.

To sum up, the Stinger is brighter than the Strion, but sometimes they're the same brightness, and the difference is not that noticeable at short distances anyway. Given the same reflector (which the HP versions appear to share, more or less), you'll begin to notice more of a difference as you look farther out, though.

It isn't, because lumens measure their total outputs. You have to be careful with the word "throw," however, because in the flashlight world it relates to the beam pattern as well as output. A flashlight with lower output can "out-throw" (i.e. makes things visible farther away) another flashlight with higher output if the former has optics that concentrate its light into a smaller pattern with higher intensity. In your case, it's irrelevant because you're comparing the HP versions of both the Stinger and Strion, which appear (based on their specs) to use the same reflector, so the Stinger DS LED HP will always out-throw the Strion LED HP, sometimes by a little and sometimes by more, by virtue of its higher output (in lumens).

Not in general--only in the effects they may have on these two specific flashlights and the people who designed them, which in this case isn't much, at least with respect to output.

The Strion LED HP has a narrower body (albeit a same-sized head), has half the weight, and is slightly shorter than the Stinger DS LED HP. On the other hand, in terms of output, throw, and regulation the Stinger has minor advantages. In terms of battery type, I don't know about these two flashlights specifically, but in my general experience NiCd (Stinger) and Li-ion (Strion) batteries both start to go south shortly after you begin using them, and degrade noticeably after 2-3 years. NiCd batteries theoretically have the disadvantage of "memory effect," but in practice I think it's overstated (I've seen Li-ion batteries do weird things, too, like occasionally reaching full voltage without actually being fully charged). I've probably had the best experiences overall with NiMH batteries, but for some reason they're only available in Streamlight flashlights sold in Europe. :shrug:

Li-ion batteries have certain advantages such as energy density in terms of weight (as well as volume in comparison to NiCd), and no memory effect, but they have a relatively limited shelf life, and will noticeably and permanently degrade over a couple of years even when they're not being used. That's been my experience, at least. Their advantages still make them preferable, but they're not a panacea, especially over the long term--I've used some NiCd and NiMH batteries for years and years, and have had to replace Li-ions far more often, on the average.

Both the Stinger DS LED HP and Strion LED HP are "brighter" than the PolyStinger in the sense that they will "throw" farther (if that's what you're looking for), due to their larger reflectors. All three are of similar brightness in terms of total output, roughly speaking, with the Stinger DS LED HP in the lead.

How much cumulative runtime would that take? I think that their chargers can be used in your vehicle, in any case.

The voltage of each cell doesn't matter in this case, nor do any purely theoretical advantages--all that counts is the final result, and in this case the NiCd-powered Stinger DS LED HP, though larger and heavier, is in fact brighter and throws farther than the Li-ion-powered Strion LED HP.

Out of curiosity, what is your primary flashlight and what do you use it for? Or do you call any flashlight on your belt a backup? I just want to get a more complete sense of your lighting needs while on duty before making any recommendations.

Thank you VERY much GaAslamp, for the comprehensive and well written reply. That was very helpful and also very informative.

Combined with your replies, and further research, I have narrowed a few things down that I still need help with. Also to answer your above question in regard to flashlights I already use, I will describe below.

1. I currently only have the in-car D-CELL maglite. I say it's "in car" because we don't leave it on our flashlight loop all the time, usually only traffic stops at night. During daytime building searches, I use a Gerber LX 3.0 which I got as a gift. Quite frankly, it doesn't fit my purposes at all...which is why I'm trying to upgrade quickly.

2. I have personally seen the polystinger ds led and stinger ds led hp side by side. It was very hard to tell because it was in a small area (maybe 20 feet long) but it appeared that the polystinger had better spill. Hard for me to tell. Is there an unknown benefit to the polystinger ds led that I don't know about?

3. I am looking for a light that has BETTER SPILL so that I can illuminate not only the person or object I'm shining the light at - but also the entire vehicle and/or a dark path/backyard/etc during a foot pursuit. Tunnel Vision from an extremely bright focused light, and very dim spillover would be ill-advised for my backup light. Optimally, I'd like something with a very bright focused beam, as well as enough spill to illuminate an entire car. I might be overthinking this, but would the Polystinger, Stinger DS LED HP, or Strion LED HP fit the bill here?

4. As far as the HP lens vs the Regular Lens - is this primarily just for the distance the light can be thrown? Or does this increase the spill as well? From what I read, it seems the HP has better center light concentration and worse spill...is this true?

5. Lastly, I use my maglite most of the time on traffic stops, and plan to upgrade it with the TerraLux. However, as far as the backup light goes, I am really questioning what to get for my purposes. If the HP is too much center beam and not enough spill, then I guess the polystinger would be best? Or better yet, is there ANY other light that would work for my purposes better than these?

Thanks so much for the help!! =)

vacbanned4 · Jan 20, 2012

bkumanski said:
Depending on where you work (rural vs urban) I may stay away from the HP heads for regular duty use. They do throw well, but the overall spill suffers considerably, making it not a very good choice for t-stops and foot chases. The Strion regular head has pretty good throw so the HP head really doesn't add to the "backup" benefit much and the Stinger HP DS is just too big and really has no spill. A regular Stinger head is probably better for the closer stuff and will illuminate a yard/car/building better than the HP will (unless you need to look across a big alfalfa field or something). And why the DS? This adds length. You can get one with a tail or body switch depending on what you prefer, but the DS thing just seems gimmicky and adds too much to a light on your waist. As far as memory and runtimes, if you burn it down every day, NiCds are OK, and there are several makers of the better NiMh packs for them you can pick up for under $10. Streamlights are great if you want a no-fuss cradle charge solution. I used one for years with no issues (and they have much better optics and LEDs now) but eventually switched to Malkoff. I have field tested respect for the Streamlight products as with Surefire, but I find the Malkoffs have that little something extra I crave (if you are willing to open them up to charge the batteries instead of a cradle charge) and are just as police/military friendly and durable.

BTW, I "retired" my Streamlight LED poly with the hybrid reflector for a Malkoff Wildcat. Same relative size and fits in the stinger holster well. So does the Hounddog FYI

Very good to know that about the HP heads. I will avoid them then for backup light purposes.

As far as the DS goes, I like the idea of having two switches for versatility of grip in different situations. However, the DS polystinger length is only about 1/2 an inch more than the regular polystinger. So for me, this isn't a particularly big problem.

I will look into the Malkoff mod for the polystinger if I do decide to go that route....in your opinion, how much better is the SPILL of the Malkoff vs the stock polystinger?

DisrupTer911 · Jan 20, 2012

I can't help but notice th size of the stream lights your looking at and keep thinking something along the lines of a Fenix TK41 with a couple sets of eneloops on hand would fit the bill better.

Viper715 · Jan 20, 2012

I don't think the TK41 would be the best idea. Too many batts to deal with if you would have to change them out.

The light you describe is very close to the Surefire Lawman. Not in production yet but almost exactly what your requirements are. I personally carry a C2 with a malkoff as my belt light and I think it's the perfect size and I don't like blinky modes. You could look at the Thrunite Scorpion very similar to the Gladius.

vacbanned4 · Jan 20, 2012

Viper715 said:
I don't think the TK41 would be the best idea. Too many batts to deal with if you would have to change them out.

The light you describe is very close to the Surefire Lawman. Not in production yet but almost exactly what your requirements are. I personally carry a C2 with a malkoff as my belt light and I think it's the perfect size and I don't like blinky modes. You could look at the Thrunite Scorpion very similar to the Gladius.

The surefire lawman certainly does look interesting. It's a shame it isn't already out. I'm also very hesitant of buying early production anything....so that scraps the idea at least for the next year or two.

As far as the Thrunite Scorpion, that looks pretty good. I'm a bit skeptical because of how small it is so tucking it under my arm might be difficult. I really like the brightness which is around 460 OTF lumens apparently.

I'm still fairly leaning towards the Streamlight Polystinger w/ a TerraLux

GaAslamp · Jan 20, 2012

vacbanned4 said:
1. I currently only have the in-car D-CELL maglite. I say it's "in car" because we don't leave it on our flashlight loop all the time, usually only traffic stops at night.

OK, that should take care of your long throw/peek through car windows needs, should they arise.

vacbanned4 said:
During daytime building searches, I use a Gerber LX 3.0 which I got as a gift. Quite frankly, it doesn't fit my purposes at all...which is why I'm trying to upgrade quickly.

I don't blame you.

vacbanned4 said:
2. I have personally seen the polystinger ds led and stinger ds led hp side by side. It was very hard to tell because it was in a small area (maybe 20 feet long) but it appeared that the polystinger had better spill. Hard for me to tell. Is there an unknown benefit to the polystinger ds led that I don't know about?

These flashlights are pretty similar in most respects, so generally the larger the reflector, the greater the throw and the narrower the spill. Throw is gained by taking some of the light from the spill using a larger, deeper reflector and concentrating it in the hotspot. So if it's more spill that you're looking for, then you'd generally want a smaller, shallower reflector that makes the LED emitter directly visible over a wider angle (when looking into the flashlight)--this direct visibility is what constitutes the outer portion of the spill (look at your flashlight to see what I mean).

vacbanned4 said:
3. I am looking for a light that has BETTER SPILL so that I can illuminate not only the person or object I'm shining the light at - but also the entire vehicle and/or a dark path/backyard/etc during a foot pursuit. Tunnel Vision from an extremely bright focused light, and very dim spillover would be ill-advised for my backup light. Optimally, I'd like something with a very bright focused beam, as well as enough spill to illuminate an entire car. I might be overthinking this, but would the Polystinger, Stinger DS LED HP, or Strion LED HP fit the bill here?

You know this already, but for a wider spill, forget about the HP versions. Of the non-HP versions of these flashlights, the Stinger DS LED has the widest spill as well as a fairly tightly focused hotspot (you can have both because the latter depends on the reflector and LED design--the hotspot is merely not as bright with a smaller reflector):
http://www.led-resource.com/2011/09/streamlight-stinger-ds-led-nimh-review/ (scroll down for the beamshot)

The PolyStinger DS LED has a slightly wider hotspot and narrower spill:
http://www.led-resource.com/2011/03/streamlight-polystinger-ds-led-review/

And the Strion LED has the narrowest spill of the three:
http://www.led-resource.com/2011/06/streamlight-strion-led-rechargeable-flashlight-review/

vacbanned4 said:
4. As far as the HP lens vs the Regular Lens - is this primarily just for the distance the light can be thrown? Or does this increase the spill as well? From what I read, it seems the HP has better center light concentration and worse spill...is this true?

Yes, it's true (as you know by now)--to get more light into the hotspot, it has to be taken from elsewhere, namely the outer portion of the spill (hence the need for a larger reflector), which of course results in a narrower spill.

vacbanned4 said:
5. Lastly, I use my maglite most of the time on traffic stops, and plan to upgrade it with the TerraLux. However, as far as the backup light goes, I am really questioning what to get for my purposes. If the HP is too much center beam and not enough spill, then I guess the polystinger would be best? Or better yet, is there ANY other light that would work for my purposes better than these?

It looks to me that the Stinger DS LED has a slightly wider spill AND a more focused hotspot. Some people prefer a relatively wide hotspot as well as a wide spill for things like building searches, though. How does that beamshot in the linked review look to you? The spill looks pretty wide, but do you think you'd prefer a wider hotspot?

I'll try to come up with some other options you might like. The ThruNite Scorpion has been mentioned, but while it's a good one, it doesn't have a really wide spill. I'll be looking for ones more like the LUMINTOP TD-15/TD-15X, for example. Do you have a price limit, by the way?

vacbanned4 · Jan 21, 2012

GaAslamp said:
OK, that should take care of your long throw/peek through car windows needs, should they arise.

I don't blame you.

These flashlights are pretty similar in most respects, so generally the larger the reflector, the greater the throw and the narrower the spill. Throw is gained by taking some of the light from the spill using a larger, deeper reflector and concentrating it in the hotspot. So if it's more spill that you're looking for, then you'd generally want a smaller, shallower reflector that makes the LED emitter directly visible over a wider angle (when looking into the flashlight)--this direct visibility is what constitutes the outer portion of the spill (look at your flashlight to see what I mean).

You know this already, but for a wider spill, forget about the HP versions. Of the non-HP versions of these flashlights, the Stinger DS LED has the widest spill as well as a fairly tightly focused hotspot (you can have both because the latter depends on the reflector and LED design--the hotspot is merely not as bright with a smaller reflector):
http://www.led-resource.com/2011/09/streamlight-stinger-ds-led-nimh-review/ (scroll down for the beamshot)

The PolyStinger DS LED has a slightly wider hotspot and narrower spill:
http://www.led-resource.com/2011/03/streamlight-polystinger-ds-led-review/

And the Strion LED has the narrowest spill of the three:
http://www.led-resource.com/2011/06/streamlight-strion-led-rechargeable-flashlight-review/

Yes, it's true (as you know by now)--to get more light into the hotspot, it has to be taken from elsewhere, namely the outer portion of the spill (hence the need for a larger reflector), which of course results in a narrower spill.

It looks to me that the Stinger DS LED has a slightly wider spill AND a more focused hotspot. Some people prefer a relatively wide hotspot as well as a wide spill for things like building searches, though. How does that beamshot in the linked review look to you? The spill looks pretty wide, but do you think you'd prefer a wider hotspot?

I'll try to come up with some other options you might like. The ThruNite Scorpion has been mentioned, but while it's a good one, it doesn't have a really wide spill. I'll be looking for ones more like the LUMINTOP TD-15/TD-15X, for example. Do you have a price limit, by the way?

Thanks again for the very comprehensive reply. I really appreciate it.

Now that I know more about the HP vs the Regular Streamlights I am sure that I do NOT want an HP head. However, the question now is...do I want a streamlight at all?

The LUMINTOP TD-15 looks pretty good, but it really seems too short. 5.85 inches won't bode well for being carried under my arm if need be.

Would the TerraLUX upgrade for the polystinger ds led be a good investment? Or should I steer clear of streamlight in general? I keep going back to them because so far its the only selection I've found that has literally every feature I want in one package - the only concern is the overall brightness/spill.

Would the TerraLUX upgrade satisfy my excessive spill and brightness need?

As far as price limits goes - I don't really have one WITHIN REASON lol. This is something that could potentially save my life so I'm OK with throwing money at it.

GForGeep · Jan 21, 2012

My cousin is a police officer and he keeps a Zebralight SC600 on his belt in a Kytex (sp?) holster and he says it serves him well. It has good output, good runtime (one 18650), and isnt too big. Only draw back is the lack of momentary on. Just a suggestion to look into.

Robin24k · Jan 21, 2012

I know you said that you want to have more spill, but do you need a wider beam, or more light outside of the hotspot? The Strion LED has a textured portion of the reflector close to the LED, so the beam is not as focused as you might expect. If you don't mind using CR123s, consider the ProTac HL as well.

http://www.streamlight.com/product/product.aspx?pid=254

Alternatively, the Maglite ML125 has a tight hotspot and a very wide beam diameter.

http://www.led-resource.com/2011/09/maglite-ml125-rechargeable-led-flashlight-review/

wadamt16 · Jan 21, 2012

My brother is a detective, he has Inova T4, it is a nice flashlight. It has DC and AC charger, use lithium ion batteries. I think you should check it out.

GaAslamp · Jan 21, 2012

vacbanned4 said:
Now that I know more about the HP vs the Regular Streamlights I am sure that I do NOT want an HP head. However, the question now is...do I want a streamlight at all?

These Streamlights and similar flashlights recharge in a cradle or holder of some kind, so there is a convenience factor for day-to-day use. You'd have more options if you'd be willing to take out the batteries and charge them separately.

vacbanned4 said:
The LUMINTOP TD-15 looks pretty good, but it really seems too short. 5.85 inches won't bode well for being carried under my arm if need be.

I prefer this one to most other flashlights of its class because its spill seems noticeably wider, despite the fact that it was designed with long throw in mind. By the way, the X version is brighter and has a wider hotspot, so that's the one you'd probably be more interested in. As for its length, there are extenders and longer bodies available to accommodate additional batteries, which should resolve this issue. Check out the following reviews:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?309193
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?324505

I'm still investigating this and other options (as time permits), and will get back to you on those. The main difficulty I'm encountering is finding a basis for comparison for things like spill width. :thinking: This would be easier if I owned all of them, wouldn't it?

vacbanned4 said:
Would the TerraLUX upgrade for the polystinger ds led be a good investment?

It might be if you already owned an older Stinger or PolyStinger, but otherwise it probably wouldn't be much of an improvement over the current versions (anybody who knows differently for a fact, please speak up). TerraLUX tends to quote emitter lumens, so their 300 lumens spec would in reality be more like a little over 200 lumens, which isn't a worthwhile improvement over the current PolyStinger DS, I think.

vacbanned4 said:
Or should I steer clear of streamlight in general? I keep going back to them because so far its the only selection I've found that has literally every feature I want in one package - the only concern is the overall brightness/spill.

Not necessarily--they've been making products for law enforcement for a long time, and have many satisfied users. The particular models we've been discussing have enough output for "tactical" use, and their spills seem wide enough for this purpose (I'll try to double-check). But this doesn't mean that you shouldn't find out whether there is something better, and go for that instead, of course. If you want really bright light--some believe that much more than 200-300 lumens is TOO bright for tactical use (due to reflections off interior walls), while others want as much as they can get--a wide spill, and (I'm guessing) a good amount of floodiness (in this case, a spread-out hotspot and bright spill), then I believe there are better options.

vacbanned4 said:
Would the TerraLUX upgrade satisfy my excessive spill and brightness need?

Excessive, huh?

I don't know for sure, but tell me how these beamshots of the Malkoff M60 and M61 drop-in modules look to you:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_20/486134_Malkoff_M60_vs__M61.html (two sets, scroll down)

Their outputs are 235 and 260 lumens, respectively, and they have different optics which produce different beam profiles. There is also the M91 drop-in module that outputs 450 lumens, and is similar to the M61 except for being somewhat floodier in the middle. One of the options I'm looking into for you is a Malkoff M91 in an MD2 head with an MD4 body--this combination should meet your requirements and would be one of the finest and most durable tactical flashlights around.

vacbanned4 said:
As far as price limits goes - I don't really have one WITHIN REASON lol. This is something that could potentially save my life so I'm OK with throwing money at it.

Would $159 for the Malkoff option be feasible? I'm still looking around--just wondering.

RI Chevy · Jan 21, 2012

Welcome to the forum! I would suggest a Solarforce L2T, Elzetta or a Surefire 6P fitted with a Malkoff M61 variant, or a cheaper XM-L type drop-in. It will give you what your looking for. The Malkoff will give you bulletproof durability and give you a nice workable light output. The L2T hosts is an excellent tactical host for the money. The Malkoff dropin will cost you more than the host. Elzetta is also a great option, and they come with a Malkoff installed and run on 2 or 3 CR123 batteries.

Lodogg2221 · Jan 21, 2012

As an LEO, Ive been around a few Streamlight lights, and cant say anything really bad about the incan, other than they arent as bright as the LED versions, but a co-worker bought the Polystinger DS LED a while back. We work in a rural area, so distance is nice, but you need lots of spill too. His had none compared to my Surefire 8AX, but did easily out throw it. My 8AX has Silverfox's battery in it, but otherwise its original. Not an awful lot of throw, but enough, and had plenty of spill for whatever I want to use it for. The Streamlight also had an odd blue hue to it...didnt render colors very well at all, which can create problems during searches, depending what you are looking for, or who.
If you have to have all your features, Streamlight is about your only option.
Personally, Im waiting on the Lawman. Ill by the first one, I dont care. Quality has never been an issue for me at least (actually havent heard of many complaints at all) with new stuff from them. They do their homework...and the Lawman has been in the works for a while. Wasnt released because all their current offerings got big boosts in output and they wanted to do the same with the Lawman before releasing it.
Id expect it out in the next few months.

Anyway, one other thing, according to your listed uses, this light is NOT a backup. It will be your main light. A backup is a light you keep on your person other than the light on your belt for use should that light fail. I personally have 4 lights with me on duty. 8AX on my belt, Surefire LX2 in my pocket, Surefire M3 in the car and a 4 Sevens Quark tactical in there too. Along with spare batteries. Well, I guess I have 5 since I have an X300 on my weapon as well.
My light has been with me since 06, and its overdue for an upgrade, but its served me well, and I think the new Lawman is worth the wait, and Ive waited this long, whats a bit longer?

Also, I was all set to order the Streamlight because a few of our vehicles already have Streamlight chargers, but after seeing my buddies, I couldnt do it. My LX2 works better in most situations than his DS LED. I dont mind the batteries too much, because being in my backup lights, I dont go thru them very often.

Its all in what you want, but Id urge you to try the Stinger before you commit to it just because you can throw it on a charger.
I can swap dead batteries faster than you can re-charge your light, but I get that swapping batteries to have a fresh light or highest output can get expensive. Thats one reason I wont carry a non-rechargeable as a main duty light.
I was looking at the Thrunite Scorpion V2 recently...but Im a Surefire junky, so since it should be out soon, Im gonna wait...

Oh, one other you might look at, the 5.11 Light for Life. One of the County officers has one and its a great light. And it can be recharged about as fast (90 seconds) as I can change batteries! They have two sizes, and both recharge the same...might be worth looking into if you want a re-chargeable and dont want to wait for the Lawman. They look a bit different, but work very well.

Oh, and I would suggest a TRUE backup light, like the Surefire E1B (soon to be the EB1), or for a more budget friendly approach, a 4 Sevens Quark tactical, or similar.
As they say, one is none and two is one.

vacbanned4 · Jan 21, 2012

Robin24k said:
I know you said that you want to have more spill, but do you need a wider beam, or more light outside of the hotspot? The Strion LED has a textured portion of the reflector close to the LED, so the beam is not as focused as you might expect. If you don't mind using CR123s, consider the ProTac HL as well.

http://www.streamlight.com/product/product.aspx?pid=254

Alternatively, the Maglite ML125 has a tight hotspot and a very wide beam diameter.

http://www.led-resource.com/2011/09/maglite-ml125-rechargeable-led-flashlight-review/

I am extremely interested in the ProTac HL. I have TWO questions about it:

1. Why is the Candlepower rating so low, yet the lumens are so high? What will this say about the flashlights performance compared to say the Polystinger DS LED?
2. Can I get a set of RELIABLE HIGH QUALITY rechargeable CR123 batteries + a charger?? If so, where at?

Thanks!!

Police Officer Backup Flashlight Question/Comparison - Strion LED HP vs Polystinger

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