Olight SR90 Lumens - Ads say 2,200, Olight Site says 1,750...?

On Olight's site they claim the SR90 is rated at 1,750 lumens, and has a max throw of 710 meters, but all the ads I see claim 2,200 lumens and a max throw of 1,000 meters.

Why the discrepancy?

2200lm for the SR90 is what it has always been advertized at and are the original emitter lumens, actuall OTF is closer to 1500 to 1700 lm. Maybe olight decided to update the ratings? This can be seen easily when comparing it to the ANSI 2200lm rated TK70.

How would that change the throw range though?

Olight says 710 meters, everyone else says 1000 meters....Are there more than one standard defining the extent of the throw? I've seem 0.25 lux as a minimum target to be considered within the throw range....are there other cut-points?

If they went with the ANSI standard that would change the rating, I think. IIRC the ANSI lumen and candela ratings are measured after 3 minutes. The SR90 will heat up quite a bit in 3 minutes time and lose output. I believe selfbuilt's review shows the loss over time, but it has been a long time since I looked at it.

And the ANSI std would also change the throw from 1000 meters to 710 meters?

Yes if measured after 3 min

ScaryFatKidGT said:

Yes if measured after 3 min

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Exactly

Interesting...the maker reduced the claims, but every one selling them did not...or at least there's no caveat in the ads/verbiage.

I'll have to look to see if the beam shots change after 3 min.

A roughly foot ball field sized drop in range should be noticeable I would think.

For what it's worth I believe Olight manufactured the SR90 before the FL1 ANSI standards were done/available. Many of the ads you see have been the same since it was first available.

Good to know.

I also see ads and so forth that talk about OTF Lumens, which I believe is "Out the Front"? - but I'm not sure how ANSI Lumens and OTF Lumens relate, or even if they do, etc.

For throw, I also see 0.25 lux being used for the minimum light on the surface to be considered as within the throw of a light....and I see people posting lux at 1 meter, etc...but are people extrapolating what range it would then be at 0.25 lux, or actually using a lux meter 700 meters away, etc?

TEEJ said:

Good to know.

I also see ads and so forth that talk about OTF Lumens, which I believe is "Out the Front"? - but I'm not sure how ANSI Lumens and OTF Lumens relate, or even if they do, etc.

For throw, I also see 0.25 lux being used for the minimum light on the surface to be considered as within the throw of a light....and I see people posing lux at 1 meter, etc...but are people extrapolating what range it would then be at 0.25 lux, or actually using a lux meter 700 meters away, etc?

Click to expand...

The ANSI lumens standard is OTF after 3 minutes runtime. In some cases the initial OTF lumens and OTF after 3 minutes can be large. Especially for the high current emitters like the SST-90, SST-50, and the Cree XM-L.

The 0.25 lux is what the ANSI distance rating is based on. They will list throw distance as the figure where the light would be only 0.25 lux. Those figures are typically extrapolated from what the lux at 1 meter is. FYI, one candlepower/candela equals 1 lux at 1 meter.

Mr. Tone said:

The ANSI lumens standard is OTF after 3 minutes runtime. In some cases the initial OTF lumens and OTF after 3 minutes can be large. Especially for the high current emitters like the SST-90, SST-50, and the Cree XM-L.

The 0.25 lux is what the ANSI distance rating is based on. They will list throw distance as the figure where the light would be only 0.25 lux. Those figures are typically extrapolated from what the lux at 1 meter is. FYI, one candlepower/candela equals 1 lux at 1 meter.

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OK, got it, thanks!

So that means there is a formula to calculate the lux at a given range, if you know it at 1 meter....and, there must be another data point at the origin to extrapolate from...?

Mr. Tone said:

The ANSI lumens standard is OTF after 3 minutes runtime. In some cases the initial OTF lumens and OTF after 3 minutes can be large. Especially for the high current emitters like the SST-90, SST-50, and the Cree XM-L.

Click to expand...

Not in this case. It's just the difference between emitter and out of the front (OTF)/ANSI lumens.

Originally Posted by Mr. Tone The ANSI lumens standard is OTF after 3 minutes runtime. In some cases the initial OTF lumens and OTF after 3 minutes can be large. Especially for the high current emitters like the SST-90, SST-50, and the Cree XM-L.

phantom23 said:

Not in this case. It's just the difference between emitter and out of the front (OTF)/ANSI lumens.

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sigh

So, its not just waiting 3 min and taking the same measurement...?

Is OTF the same as ANSI Lumens then?

Standard procedure in "Ulbricht-sphere", SR90 only reaches around 1300 lumens. See video starting at 7:00

video (german language but its self explaining) with measurement of several lights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am3HsBwAZsw

This might help with understanding how ANSI FL-1 measures are taken:

http://flashlight-wiki.com/ANSI-NEMA_FL-1

TEEJ said:

Originally Posted by Mr. Tone The ANSI lumens standard is OTF after 3 minutes runtime. In some cases the initial OTF lumens and OTF after 3 minutes can be large. Especially for the high current emitters like the SST-90, SST-50, and the Cree XM-L.




sigh

So, its not just waiting 3 min and taking the same measurement...?

Is OTF the same as ANSI Lumens then?

Click to expand...

I think you're on the right track.
ANSI standards measures the output at 3 mins to simulate real life situations of using the flashlight for 3 minutes or more.
ANSI standards also measures the output, not directly from the emitter itself, but out the front OTF, to take into account efficiency losses from the reflector and the lens.
The intensity/brightness in lux is then read at x meters, and extrapolated till the lux brightness falls to 0.25 lux.
[Sorry, actually at 2m, 10m, or 30m according to Selfbuilt's link above].
However, even using ANSI FL-1 standards, there will still be small discrepancies between manufacturer claims, and our Selfbuilt's test review measurements, and any other person who wishes to measure the beam performance of a flashlight.
Measurements will always vary even with the same model of light, person to person, and lux meter to lux meter.
Luckily most of the discrepancies are small, and not absolutely huge.
This helps to make flashlight data comparable...

amaretto said:

Standard procedure in "Ulbricht-sphere", SR90 only reaches around 1300 lumens. See video starting at 7:00

video (german language but its self explaining) with measurement of several lights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am3HsBwAZsw

Click to expand...

My German is weak, but it looked like all the lights tested were not as bright as advertised, by a good degree. So, if an SR90 was producing ~ 1300 (1.3 of whatever the units were in terms of...), Is THAT the ANSI Lumen rating?

Yes, that's the ANSI output measurement in lumens.

Look at Selfbuilt's test and data for the SR90 below:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?272521-Olight-SR90-Intimidator-(Phlatlight-SST-90)-Review-BEAMSHOTS-RUNTIMES-and-more!

More importantly, look at his more recent [newer] data for the SR90 in the table below, also from Selfbuilt.
Notice how it says that the estimated lightbox lumens is about 1400 lumens.
It is estimated because the SR90's head is too big to fit into his light box or sphere.
Also notice how his maximum lux measurement is 100,500 lux, which extrapolates to 634 meters of throw until the brightness falls to 0.25 lux.
So yes, the data is somewhat different [and lower] than the manufacturers claims.
The data will vary a little from lux meter to lux meter; you didn't think two different lux meters would give identical readings did you?

The lumen measurement will give you an idea of the SR90's overall output.
The lux measurement will give you an idea of the SR90's maximum intensity of it's hotspot, hence longitudingal throw.
The white wall shots will give you an idea of the SR90's lateral beam spread - the wider the lateral surface area of illumination, the better; unless you are a hunter/sniper trying to do a covert operation, illuminating the target only, and trying not alert all the enemy.

You will find that the SR90's longitudinal performance/throw is excellent.
However, it's lateral performance/flood/spill is inferior to the Fenix TK70 Triple XM-L, for example.
The total output in lumens is made of the brightness in lux [which also determines the longitudinal throw], multiplied by the lateral surface area of illumination in square meters.

Look at HKJ's photos below for a rough idea of the lateral beam performance.
The first photo is the SR90.
The second photo is the TK70.
Unfortunately, the photo has not captured the full width of the spill in either light.
The camera would have to be positioned further back to capture the spill.
Thus, flashlights are not all about longitudinal throw, they are also about lateral flood/spill as well.
This lateral spill/flood is very difficult to measure quantitatively/objectively and document - and in fact, is not documented on the spec sheets at all.






SR90


TK70
Notice the width of the hotspot, and the brightness of the lateral spill in the foreground.
The TK70 has 2200 lumens OTF...

It looks like the TK70 is able to do a better job! Is there a light box test of the TK70 too?

In the above test, it looks like the 4sevens S18 Has about the same ceiling bounce as the SR90 (300 vs 305).

The S18 is rated at 1200 OTF lumens.

The Olight SR92 is rated at 1700 lumens OTF, and 1,000 meters throw.....as it says OTF, does that mean the SR92 is brighter than the SR90?

:O