CW LED vs. NW-WW-HCRI- Ltd. Run LED Lights Availability - Popularity

4sevens said:

Guys please take the NW/special run to another thread and keep this thread on topic It's been discussed before and should be continued there - just not here

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It is David who sparked the idea to start this discussion thread. Thanks David :thumbsup:

Let me start by saying that this is not a sales thread, but one to talk about the popularity, availablity, and your experiences involving Special runs, Limited editions, Less popular emitters (including NW, WW, HCRI) & Special features, the Pros, and the Cons. Everyones opinions why these have not made themselves a mainstream product yet should be heard.
Please share your thoughts, ideas, and experiences of how we can increase thier popularity and availability in mainstream retail markets and importantly any trends you have noticed. We should refrain from mentioning any retailers' names.

I'll share my experience and reply to a few excerpts of relevant posts from the other thread. I am no sales expert, have little to no retail experience, or market analysis training. I have talked with several retail business owners from convienence stores, hardware stores, supermarkets and others that I am friends with in my immediate area regarding this subject of popularity and availability of these type of quality LED lights over the course of the past couple of years.

shelm said:

here some thoughts:
If the NW's and Hi-CRI's of the Quarks did *not* sell too well in the recent past, then i would guess it was because of the demanded higher investment from the buyers' part.

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I agree that the NW, WW, HCRIs are a more expensive LED light. This impacts a retailers bottomline if they were to be priced the same to compete. This brings up the point of Quality and end pricing. There are way too many lower costing CW led lights available in the mainstream markets. The average consumer of present day seems more concerned with price than the quality of the flashlights beam, manufactureing and longevity. The consesus of the local retailer seems to be they are willing to carry these great lights, and have the knowledge of understanding thier benifits, but can't justify it because their customer base would not buy them because of thier higher retail sales price that is justified by the quality of the light. This would force the retailer into providing space for and stocking a product that they can not sell readily.

shelm said:

The interest *now* in an improved tint is intenser than months later when the last ones have *already* left the fences (and spend the money on the PO-SS or something else, like the DQG) and the general first wave has waned.

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tbenedict said:

I still think these and the A3/i3's both need to be sold in retail stores(particularly hardware stores). Just think of how these would sell if they were on a checkout counter with a chained demo.

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shelm said:

I certainly agree. i3/A3's, PO's, E01's should be available in hardware stores instead of Rayovac's, Duracell's and Varta's -- maglites are still okay. they're coming up with new updated stuff.

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One reason maybe that the average consumer does not know all the benifits, does not see any adverstising, or take the time to findout how it could benifit them for the light they will purchase. How more than numbers on the package or brand recognition should influence thier purchasing decision. My thought is it is time to figure out a way to compete with the high volume inexpensive lights that these retailers are buying and offering for sale to the general public.

This is only scratching the surface however. This trend runs deeper than this. This has something to do with the supplychain of retailers. What actual wholesalers & distributors who buy thier products from manufacturers that the retailers buy most of thier lights and general products from that are offering their products for sale.

To the best of my knowledge it appears to be just as important to reach these intermidiates in the supply chain, as well as the consumer, before we can make a shift to better availablilty of NW, WW, & HCRI flashlights in the retail environment. It has already happened in the household LED lighting industry in recent. How can we make it start happening in the flashlight industry? Thoughts, comments, Ideas?

Got Lumens?

Thanks Got Lumens.

I'd like to preface this whole thread with my statement here http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ens-Preon-P0&p=3861835&viewfull=1#post3861835

"Not likely. As I have mentioned in the past the neutral runs we made last quarter have stopped selling are are stagnant. We can only invest so much into special runs. If they sell out (NW and Hi-CRI) then I'll be happy to make a run"

If all the NW's and hi-cri's run out then I'd be happy to reallocate for new runs.
Frankly the NW and hi-cri runs were relatively small. Initial interest was hot - and quite exaggerated in here on cpf and now interest/sales have dropped off a cliff.

It's very simple. We're happy to run NW's and limiteds, but we only have so much budget to keep inventory floating around for them. When we move the previous runs we'll make more.
If old inventory doesn't move then theres no budget for new.

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Yes , I agree , and would like to see ALL those options available to the buyer .

In the past , other products have used the " Special purchase option" as a remedy . The re-seller then places your special request order with the manufacturer . You have to wait longer for your order to be filled , but the re-seller didn't have to stock multitudes of options that he was not sure would sell immediately . No , it's not fair to the re-seller to expect him to have the exact version you want - on hand at all times . I think if the factories/producers would allow "special order" ..... that would be great . I just dont see any other way to expect the re-sellers to be able to fill "specialty orders". There is getting to be WAY too many options - to expect them to STOCK ... your emitter choice. If you want a car with a larger engine and a special color interior - you have to WAIT for it .

But you CAN have it ... if your willing to wait ... and pay more ... as with most things .

The KEY is finding a re-seller , that can place a special request order for you .

I hope the industry will change to accomodate .

TMG

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Thanks David
There is a reply from one of the sources of high quality flashlights.
Realtime data and logistics. There must be a way to influence the current trends of the wholesalers and disitributors that are the ones partially responsible for CPFers and the public not seeing high quality flashlights (in this replies case 4 Sevens lights) at the retail checkout lines.? I'd like to see more available, more exposure, more choices other than 5mm CW leds in the checkout isles of local retailers.

TooManyGizmos said:

Yes , I agree , and would like to see ALL those options available to the buyer .

In the past , other products have used the " Special purchase option" as a remedy . The re-seller then places your special request order with the manufacturer . You have to wait longer for your order to be filled , but the re-seller didn't have to stock multitudes of options that he was not sure would sell immediately . No , it's not fair to the re-seller to expect him to have the exact version you want - on hand at all times . I think if the factories/producers would allow "special order" ..... that would be great . I just dont see any other way to expect the re-sellers to be able to fill "specialty orders". There is getting to be WAY too many options - to expect them to STOCK ... your emitter choice. If you want a car with a larger engine and a special color interior - you have to WAIT for it .

But you CAN have it ... if your willing to wait ... and pay more ... as with most things .

The KEY is finding a re-seller , that can place a special request order for you .

I hope the industry will change to accomodate .

TMG

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Thanks TMG,
That primarily is an important point. Too many options, and availabilitly. But my point primarily is not the color of the car, or how many horsepower, but walking into a new car retailer and finding only brand new outdated 5 year old models without options of the current newer designed models. It is like the car retailers have abondoned the manufacturers that have invested the time, materials, and research to give us the newer options, but choose to only offer what has sold well over the past 3 years. Thus leaving the manufacturers stuck only producing the old to stay in business.

I too would not mind having to wait, but the options are not even making it to the ordering que for manufacturers to make. It feels like they only exist on paper somewhere or on an designers computer. Looking for ways to get them in the face of the buyer, be it special order or not, is key to them ever being produced to begin with. I can't buy it, if they don't make it, and can't buy it if retailers don't offer it to sell. It's a visciuos circle in the flashlight industry that needs to be broken somehow.
GL

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Oh ... I'm sorry ... I thought you were talking about , on HERE ... not retail stores.

That would be even More difficult to offer ALL the emitter options you mention .

I can't even find a MicroWave oven I totally like - in retail - (without a slamming door)

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TooManyGizmos said:

Oh ... I'm sorry ... I thought you were talking about , on HERE ... not retail stores.

That would be even More difficult to offer ALL the emitter options you mention .

I can't even find a MicroWave oven I totally like - in retail - (without a slamming door)

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True,
That is my whole point . . . they all slam . . .
It would be nice to have the choice of one that didn't.
Even if it needs to be ordered and waited for. The supply chain is not alowing this to date.
It's not that the manufacturers can't make them.
GL

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Everything is made on an assembly line now .... by robots.

It's too hard for them to offer you a prefference .

They want us to be sheep ...... and take only what they feed us ... without complaint.


Hand made , and special order ....... does not fit in with the marketing plan.


Would you readers be willing to wait to have a special emitter placed in your light ?

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It seems the purpose of your OP has changed during this interaction .

I don't think my replies are appropriate if your intended topic is retail store fronts .

I guess I don't understand , so I will refrain ....... and just read .

Sorry I was off topic ( 180 members on line that won't reply) atleast I did .

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Educated flashaholics in the main seem to prefer NW or WW or HCRI lights. However, that appears to be a very small market for manufacturers unless there is a specialist use or a perception that a light can be marketed in a particular fashion. I look at the Fenix LD25 and LD40 which at the time were marketed specifically as 'outdoor' type lights because of the neutral emitter.

Those people who do need a light for a specialist purpose are often prepared to invest in custom built models to get exactly the tint and beam they want. Such a light is often not possible for a manufacturer looking to supply a larger retail market.

I can completely understand David's view presented on FourSevens behalf that if a limited run sells out then he will be prepared to budget the funds to have a new limited run manufactured. That is only good business. It is true that customers often say they want something but then don't follow up on that request when the product they say they want is available - I know I have been guilty of that myself.

It is with the realisation that a limited run is just that which has resulted in my budgeting to pick up a few more HCRI lights from FourSevens early next week when I have the funds available. I personally have become a big fan of the HCRI Preon and Mini AA and I plan on purchasing some back ups so that my favourite EDC lights will be available for the near future if I should lose one or have it breakdown. If you find something that works for you it is always best to buy as many spares as you can fund at the time.

I have to agree with TMG.....I am confused as to what is the topic of this thread.The title and 4sevens post refers to cool white vs. neutral/warm/HCRI but the poll is for high quality lights at retail and apparently that is in reference to B&M stores....?

I would like to see a general push toward manufacturers taking the character of the illumination to be more important than the number on the box. 1,000 green/purple/blue lumens are far less appealing to me than 750 white lumens.

I also think that offering lights that are visibly more accurate in color rendering is a great and under-utilized marketing method. People don't really know what a lumen is, they just want a lot of them. But when you see a nature scene lit by a Hi-CRI light next to one lit with a typical "cool white" light, it is obvious which one is better. Manufacturers that care about user experiences win in the long run.

I think the poll responses are very leading.. Anyway, of course we who are bothered enough to actually read a flashlight forum and possibly even vote in a poll on the subject will have strong preferences and opinions on the subject. These opinions on the subject of tint tend to be which tint we prefer, not whether or not we should have the choice.

What I'm trying to say is that if you ask a forum of people who care about flashlights if they want more choice in flashlights they will say yes, but it is not a representative sample for the target population of any large retailer. The majority of people whose responses matter (read as just 'the majority of people') will not respond to this poll and probably never see it, this is because they aren't really bothered and will happily buy what's on offer.

If a specific light however was made with the neutral emitter only, or even if an entire brand 'went neutral' this could possibly lead to better sales as people on the whole may appreciate it. I do not think however that most people will know or care enough to learn about the differences between LED tints and so if they are limited to set 'runs' and not the default option I really don't think neutrals will outsell whatever else is on offer. The risk of only producing a light in neutral, unless like some Fenix models they use that as a clear marketing advantage, is that the company will pay more for LEDs which will not help the product sell, so most of the time they won't risk it, and to be fair, it makes sense not to.

That said, I love what 'illuminationgear' has done with beamshot comparisons including tint ones on his website. I think that if more sellers included comparisons like that on the sales pages themselves so they couldn't be missed then they would see massive raises in their sales of 'premium tint' lights.

I took the question as meaning B/M stores. And in that respect, no. As the specialized items would be just the the batteries we use. Ridiculously expensive to buy locally.

Hi,
Based on the responses so far, I will assume that we will not see better products available to the general sales population at the local retail sales point (B/M). From the thoughts and responses I have read, I think it will be status quoe. Those that appreciate as desire better quality, tint, or options available will have to seek and find those as an individual or online. Perhaps this is the trend in the lighting industry. I can remember when LEDs first were first released and manufacturered for consumer flashilight goods, you could not buy them off the shelf locally, and they were more expensive. An individual or group was forced to bypass the locally available products and make the choice to order them specially. In recent years LED lights have started to be accepted by the general population. This maybe due in part to the numbers on packaging, combined with the decrease in pricing and mega produced products. So I wait with fingers crossed to see if these trends finally make it to the main street convienence store. I suspect that when they do, it will not be the high quality products like we enjoy and value here.
GL

Not sure why the tints such as WW, NW,HCRI, are included in the title as if they are "high quality".
They are no better "quality" than CW.
If it comes to preference, I prefer CW.

I don't care what retail stores do, because I won't shop at retail stores. I buy online only.

twl said:

Not sure why the tints such as WW, NW,HCRI, are included in the title as if they are "high quality".
They are no better "quality" than CW.
If it comes to preference, I prefer CW.

I don't care what retail stores do, because I won't shop at retail stores. I buy online only.

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My point would be that most B/M stores do not carry high quality lights. Most carry an inexpensive lower quality lights, and they are CW, or purple/blue tinted if you include 5mm LED 3 cell lights. I agree tint is subjective, and I am not implying that one tint is better than another, mearly that both High quality and emitter choices are not available locally for most. As you affirmed, the present flashlight market and distribution is forcing most people who want the choice to buy them online as you do.
GL