Dereelight DBS aspherical vs DEFT

schmart

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Apr 29, 2009
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I've been reading about the DEFT in its various versions for quite a while now and it seems like the ultimate LED thrower. However, in a previous thread where I asked for recommendations on a light, I was pointed to the Dereelight Aspherical lens light. Doing some research and looking for beam shots, it looks like it has the same focus as the DEFT, where the beam is in the shape of the emitter. Has anybody compared the DEFT and the Dereelight back to back. How close to you come to DEFT performance with the 1/3 price of the Dereelight?

As long as I am asking questions about the Dereelight, I'm wondering what sort of lumens the aspherical model has. It appears that it uses a different emitter than the DBS-T with the XM-L.

Thanks in advance for the help.
--Rick
 

TEEJ

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I think the DEFT edc LR and the Dereelight were compared, and were pretty close in performance, except the DEFT is only about 5" long and easily fits in your pocket. Usually, for this type of light, you don't worry about total lumens, you try for LUX on the target.

:D
 

Darvis

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Aug 23, 2009
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GA, USA
Rick,

I don't own a DEFT, but I do own the DBS aspherical and can't think of a better way to see how awesome a light can be than to spend that 1/3 less for the DBS. Mine has the EZ900 die behind it and has outstanding throw, I also own the XM-L version. The Asphericals tend to do better with the smaller surface area dies like the XR-E, and TEEJ is right, it's about lux, not lumens.

But the Aspherical has it's limitations, the primary on being tha it's not much use other than to light small areas over long distances. The standard DBS with an XM-L, on the other hand, is an awesome beast and will both throw and light up a large amount of space. My favorite setup is to buy the stock DBS minus the pill and then order one of Vinyugen54's regulated XM-L pills @ 3.1a- It will run great on one 18650 and put out massive amounts of light.

The DEFT is every bit worth the money in my opinion, but you will not give up much with the DBS..
 

saabluster

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Garland Tx
I've been reading about the DEFT in its various versions for quite a while now and it seems like the ultimate LED thrower. However, in a previous thread where I asked for recommendations on a light, I was pointed to the Dereelight Aspherical lens light. Doing some research and looking for beam shots, it looks like it has the same focus as the DEFT, where the beam is in the shape of the emitter. Has anybody compared the DEFT and the Dereelight back to back. How close to you come to DEFT performance with the 1/3 price of the Dereelight?

As long as I am asking questions about the Dereelight, I'm wondering what sort of lumens the aspherical model has. It appears that it uses a different emitter than the DBS-T with the XM-L.

Thanks in advance for the help.
--Rick

Well I make the DEFTs and I also own the DBS so I can certainly tell you all you want to know about them. First off I assume by the fact that you said DEFT and not DEFT edc or DEFT edc LR that you are talking about the original larger lights I made. But just in case what I will do is try and break down for you all the models of DEFT that have been made to the best of my recollection and the DBS so you can see the performance all at one spot. The measurement is given in cd(lux@3m) which is a measure of how well a light throws with higher being more powerful.

The large lights

DEFT Enthusiast 150-160Kcd
DEFT FTP 130-140Kcd
DEFT HO 175-200Kcd

Medium sized light

Dereelight DBS aspheric older ez1000 die XR-E R2 55-65Kcd
Dereelight DBS aspheric newer style ez900 XR-E R2 90-100Kcd


Small pocket lights

DEFT edc 37-43Kcd
DEFT edc LR 56-64Kcd
 
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AZPops

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Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
1,640
I'm not sure how you're planning on carrying the light, but both of Michael's DEFT-edc and LR are an extremely easy to carry EDC sized pocket rockets! Place it in your "jacket pocket", and it disappears! Following photos for size comparisons;


CIMG2165resized.jpg



CIMG2160Resized.jpg



Top Photo L to R: Prometheus Dark Sucks Alpha A, HDS Systems 170T, Malkoff Hound Dog XM-L on a MD2 short body, HDS Systems Rotary, and DEFT-edc

Bottom Photo L to R: Prometheus Alpha A with TIR Optic window and DEFT-edc


The icing on the cake is the DEFT-edc is from the Country of Texas by one heck of a custom builder! .... :thumbsup:
 
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2100

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Apr 4, 2006
Messages
897
Location
SINGAPORE, South East Asia
I have carried P60 sized lights in my jeans, they do not disappear. I have also carried the DBS aspheric in a holster to my belt for a good couple of nights (I really needed that for REAL thrower use in another country), also does not disappear. But that definitely is an option if you need to be nearly an EDC light.
 

Fresh Light

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Mar 18, 2009
Messages
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Location
Stratford WI
Well I make the DEFTs and I also own the DBS so I can certainly tell you all you want to know about them. First off I assume by the fact that you said DEFT and not DEFT edc or DEFT edc LR that you are talking about the original larger lights I made. But just in case what I will do is try and break down for you all the models of DEFT that have been made to the best of my recollection and the DBS so you can see the performance all at one spot. The measurement is given in cd(lux@3m) which is a measure of how well a light throws with higher being more powerful.

The large lights

DEFT Enthusiast 150-160Kcd

DEFT Kit1.jpg

1038'
DSCN0060.JPG
DSCN0052.JPG

DEFT FTP 130-140Kcd
DEFT HO 175-200Kcd

Medium sized light

Dereelight DBS aspheric older ez1000 die XR-E R2 55-65Kcd
Dereelight DBS aspheric newer style ez900 XR-E R2 90-100Kcd


Small pocket lights

DEFT edc 37-43Kcd
DEFT edc LR 56-64Kcd


Picture added
 
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saabluster

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Messages
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Garland Tx
is DEFT a CPF brand?

Sort of I guess. I'm just a guy like you that absolutely loves loves loves flashlights. I made a light for myself years ago as home project and had people begging me to make one for them. It just kind of grew organically out of that. My actual brand is OMG Lumens. The idea for the name came from another member here being "smart" with me as we were arguing/discussing some random technical point years ago. It seemed appropriate for what I try to do.
 

fnj

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 2, 2006
Messages
555
Other than the HC copper pill, what materials are used in the construction of the DEFT-edc/LR?
 

saabluster

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Garland Tx
Other than the HC copper pill, what materials are used in the construction of the DEFT-edc/LR?

Um..well lets see. The magic formula is:

One of these

54085187.jpg


That's me. The designer, CS rep, packer/shipper, QC man, head of R+D, purchasing, production set-up, website manager, president,

That first one is completely worthless without one of these.
075f5628.jpg


My loving wife and best friend. But most importantly for all you-the CFO. And an incredible one at that.

You also need one of these.
09addc74.jpg

This is what's known as a Mandy. This particular Mandy is my sister and she does almost all of the production work. She is speckled there because the process to create the sanded portion of the bodies is a tad bit messy.


Then you need about $15,000 for this.
4a69f9c3.jpg


You also have to design the pills and learn CAD/CAM. Here's a shot of my CAM screen after running the program for the pills.
29f83b14.jpg



Here's the pills with the LEDs attached.
7f08f842.jpg



But wait before you get to this point you need to sort the LEDs. To do that I created a highly accurate instrument.
52cc3b9b.jpg

No really. It is extremely accurate. Two of the components are not on it at the moment. The light meter and the digital thermometer. The test rig is so sensitive that it picks up even teeny tiny temperature differences. A breath is all it takes to change the measurement. In fact we had to be careful to not even touch the LED itself or the heat from our hands would affect the measurement. We had a calibration LED that was used in between each test and a temp correction schedule to correct for changes in ambient temp. Temperature changes as little as .2 would change our reading. This is a very time consuming process and is far far from anything any other flashlight company on this planet would do.

Here is all our XP-C Q4 LEDs rebinned by us. The group at the top left is a continuation of the bottom right.
ed5a179b.jpg


This is the lab oven we use to mount our LEDs to the copper. Among other things.
07eb4a43.jpg


My trusty soldering station.
9f95d5c0.jpg


solder and solder paste
aeb7f082.jpg


To improve the switch electrical path.
e140c617.jpg


The best epoxy in the world.
e746cf8a.jpg


Teflon wire.
9ae422c2.jpg


After inserting the pills the joints are covered using heatshrink and a heatgun.
33c24668.jpg


Sandpaper of several varieties.
e622c906.jpg


Grip ring mold.
3c50a51e.jpg


gold flakes for the rubber grip rings. (edc)
b5d6c85a.jpg


Just one of several tints we use for the rubber.
f675896c.jpg


edc LR ring tint
bf1de1ce.jpg


Glow powder
abdf7391.jpg


One of our rubber products
1fe0236c.jpg


One of our mold materials
e3bcad36.jpg


Have to use a release agent lest I destroy my molds
1d68e728.jpg


aceb046d.jpg


Fantastic Ahorton lenses.
d8f41c4e.jpg


Vacuum chamber
1f6622ae.jpg


After our cast parts get put in the vacuum chamber they then go into this pressure pot to make sure any remaining bubbles get crushed down to nothing.
540a0059.jpg


Of course that pressure pot is no good without one of these. She's old but she still runs good. :)
5112d9d7.jpg


Diffuser film
ec6d785a.jpg


Light meter for tuning the lights and to make sure they meet spec.
736360ca.jpg


We test each LED before and after they get mounted on the copper with the power supply. The ones with too high a Vf get rejected.
eaaa134c.jpg


71c54f5f.jpg


Got to have a drill for the tapping.
6f2bc3f9.jpg


58c3a68e.jpg


d11d0ffc.jpg


Fancy 18-8 stainless steel hex screws with a special patch that acts to keep the screw from backing itself out.
ea8cf226.jpg


Silver coated beryllium copper springs
23892a75.jpg


7911ab93.jpg


This is the machine I made to do the sanding on the bodies. I used the core of an in-line skate wheel hub and inserted it into the wood. That in turn holds a bearing which the rod goes through. The drill turns the rod obviously. The rod is swappable to accept other rods for different functions. The end plate pops down to allow changing of the work piece.
cf3eac5f.jpg


My tool to pry open the bodies so that the pills fit into the bodies with an interference fit.
44087efd.jpg


And a whole lot of this
8df3aa21.jpg
 
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enomosiki

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Messages
1,109
saablaster, do you have any plans to make the DEFT-edc compatible with 2xCR123A/RCR123A and the inclusion of a forward-clicky, possibly a McClicky? Forward-clicky isn't a must, but the fact that it can only use 18650 is the main reason why I haven't bought one yet.
 

ScaryFatKidGT

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Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
918
Dude this needs to be stickied or linked to in one. I have been wondering this same question and I really like that stats thrown up, but one question you seemed to throw a 10,000 lux space in most but the DEFT HO (High output?) and EDC's seem to have different spacing. Why is that? Is that from test results you have seen or what?

Seeing those pics really makes me want to grab a EDC I thought they where a lot of money but now, not so much.
 

azzid

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Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
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Location
Manila, PH/ N.Y. Conus address
@saabluster

Now that's what I'm talking about, this is just like what i explained to another flashaholic friend of mine. I was talking to him about the deft several weeks ago, he was saying that it's a bit pricey. He asked me if we can do a copy or just get the concept out of the EDC-LR(the one I bought). I told him that the process in making just one or two would simply be too expensive even w/o the R&D(It's free since you already did it, but I still don't know how you did the LR part).:crackup:

I don't have any intention of lending my edc-lr just to get it copied and let other people/company profit from what you created.;)
You're really the king of throw when it comes to handheld production led lights.:clap::clap::clap:
 

AZPops

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
1,640
Well MR. Saabluster, this thread is now bookmarked, AND I also posted a link to this thread for the guys/gals at a couple of other Forums as well!

Pretty sick stuff Michael, which makes me further appreciate my DEFT-edc! Thanks for sharing it with us! ... :thumbsup:


Btw, how much GOLD is in my light?
 
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saabluster

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Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Messages
3,736
Location
Garland Tx
:eek: Wow. I didn't expect people to be that interested in the behind the scenes stuff. I realized there were some rather major omissions so I have amended the other post but I will put just the updates here for those who already read through the other one.

You also have to design the pills and learn CAD/CAM. Here's a shot of my CAM screen after running the program for the pills.
29f83b14.jpg


After inserting the pills the joints are covered using heatshrink and a heatgun.
33c24668.jpg


After our cast parts get put in the vacuum chamber they then go into this pressure pot to make sure any remaining bubbles get crushed down to nothing.
540a0059.jpg


We test each LED before and after they get mounted on the copper with the power supply. The ones with too high a Vf get rejected.
eaaa134c.jpg


Got to have a drill for the tapping.
6f2bc3f9.jpg


This is the machine I made to do the sanding on the bodies. I used the core of an in-line skate wheel hub and inserted it into the wood. That in turn holds a bearing which the rod goes through. The drill turns the rod obviously. The rod is swappable to accept other rods for different functions. The end plate pops down to allow changing of the work piece.
cf3eac5f.jpg
 

saabluster

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Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Messages
3,736
Location
Garland Tx
So as I'm clicking post on the last updates I remembered even more things I forgot.:ohgeez:

Silver coated beryllium copper springs
23892a75.jpg


Have to use a release agent lest I destroy my molds
1d68e728.jpg


Of course that pressure pot is no good without one of these. She's old but she still runs good. :)
5112d9d7.jpg
 
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