Tritium slot machining

[precisionworks]

The work on the metal is outstanding. The trit vials shine from their slots like gems, perfectly covered by Norland. Absolutely no defects.

Thank you for your kind words Paolo

... you have a waiting list long as a train but the result is fantastic.

The lights come in more quickly than I can get them out & that does not make me happy. Every CPF member with whom I've worked has been gracious while they waited for their machining to be completed. I especially appreciate your patience Paolo as your light was here longer than most.

At the recommendation of another CPF modder I invested in a much more powerful UV curing lamp. The energy level & the wavelength are exactly what Norland Products specifies. This will reduce the "full cure" time by about seven days so your lights will get shipped back that much sooner. It should also eliminate the shrinkage issues caused by the dental curing light & that is a huge benefit.

The only drawbacks to the new light are the cost & the size

[HighlanderNorth]

I'm sitting here looking at my current stock of 11 nice LED lights, while contemplating the other 2 I ordered from batteryjunction, as I try to figure out which of these lights would be a good candidate for trits.

Here's the list of lights I own, maybe you've done trit installation on one or more of these?:

1. Thrunite Ti(dont bother)
2. Jetbeam Pa-10
3. Jetbeam PC-10
4. FourSevens Preon 2(red)
5. Solarforce L2P(blue)
6. iTp A6 Polestar
7. Zebralight SC600
8. Jetbeam BC-10
9. Eagletac G25C2
10. Sunwayman T20CS(maybe this one!)
11. Eagletac D25C Ti(another possible candidate!)

Plus, I am awaiting these 2:

1. Olight i3
2. Titanium Innovations Illumina-Ti(maybe?)

Of those 13, the ones that seem best suited for trits from a style perspective would be the 1. Sunwayman T20CS, 2. Eagletac D25C Ti 3. Titanium Innovations Illumina-Ti

The Sunwayman T20CS has a cool look to it, and is styled well. It has these 6 vertical slots milled into the head, which are about approx. 7mm x 20mm(width x length). Maye trits could be milled and installed into those wide slots. The rear tail switch installation seems pretty thick, so maybe a few trits could be installed horizontally around that area. There are other unique design spots on that light that could be used as trit installation areas.

Then there's the 2 Ti lights, the Eagletac D25C and the Titanium Innovations Illumina-Ti. I wont have the T.I. light til later this week, so I dont yet know how thick its body is, so I cant judge whether or not its thick enough for Trit installation, but the ET D25C Ti is thin in some spots, but a bit thicker in others.

How deep do you have to mill into the substrate to install the trits?

Of the listed lights above, have you done this with any of them? Thanks, Patrick

**Oh, I just looked at the Jetbeam PA-10, and it has these seemingly custom made slots in the mid section of the battery tube area, which seem perfect for trits! There are 3 of these slots, and they are about 12mm x 2mm(length x width) and already 1.5mm deep. The aluminum seems pretty thick there too! Maybe this is a good candidate...

[precisionworks]

That's what I call a nice problem to have

How deep do you have to mill into the substrate to install the trits?

At least .010" (0.25mm) more than the diameter of the vial. A 1.5mm trit needs at least 1.75mm so the top of the vial is totally covered by a flat layer of Norland.

I've not milled into any of the lights you listed but here are some thoughts about possible locations:

The tail on the D25C looks like a good possibility:

the Jetbeam PA-10 ... has these seemingly custom made slots in the mid section of the battery tube area, which seem perfect for trits! There are 3 of these slots, and they are about 12mm x 2mm(length x width) and already 1.5mm deep.

It's possible that those would work but the depth is a concern (left arrow). The raised section at the tail cap looks really good (right arrow):



The SWM T20CS also looks to have room near the tail:



The Titanium Innovations light is great looking Maybe room at the very rear:

[HighlanderNorth]

As far as the depth of the already existing slots on Jetbeam PA-10 are concerned, are they already too deep, or is the material not thick enough there(center of battery tube, where your left arrow pointed)? After taking a close look at them, those slots dont appear to be much more than 1mm deep....

With the raised rim at the back of the Titanium innovations Illumini-ti, is it going to be wide/thick enough for trits? I have not seen the light in person, so I dont know for sure.....

I'll take a look at the Illumina-ti when it comes in, and figure out which light(s) would benefit from trits. I saw your prices for milling aluminum lights for trits, but how much is it extra for Ti? Also, would I need to procure the actual tritium vials myself, or do you get them, and add the price to my bill?

Thanks for taking the time here, Patrick......

[precisionworks]

As far as the depth of the already existing slots on Jetbeam PA-10 are concerned, are they already too deep, or is the material not thick enough there(center of battery tube, where your left arrow pointed)? After taking a close look at them, those slots dont appear to be much more than 1mm deep....

Many factory lights have decorative slots about 1mm deep. Most don't have enough wall thickness to increase the depth of slot to 1.75mm.

With the raised rim at the back of the Titanium innovations Illumini-ti, is it going to be wide/thick enough for trits? I have not seen the light in person, so I dont know for sure.....

Cannot tell for certain until it is measured.

I saw your prices for milling aluminum lights for trits, but how much is it extra for Ti? Also, would I need to procure the actual tritium vials myself, or do you get them, and add the price to my bill?

Titanium & stainless slots are twice the price of aluminum. 1.5x5mm slots in aluminum are $12, in Ti or SS they're $24.

I have no trits available but both B@rt & Merkava sell them on the CPF Marketplace. Some eBay sellers may also have what you want.

[kotarak]

Hi,

I was wondering if you have done any work on 4sevens Maelstrom S18. Just curious where and what tritium vials people install. It is a large and heavy light but I am looking into installing some trits.
Also you mentioned you have ZT0550. I would like to isntall 3x23mm trit on the titanium frame of my ZT 0551. What would be to cost to machine a slot there and turnaround time?
Thanks!

[precisionworks]

... done any work on 4sevens Maelstrom S18. Just curious where and what tritium vials people install. It is a large and heavy light but I am looking into installing some trits.

This area may work:

I would like to install 3x23mm trit on the titanium frame of my ZT 0551. What would be to cost to machine a slot there and turnaround time?

That size is one I've not seen. 2x24mm is available as is 2.5x25mm.

On a thick slab like the 0550/0551 the slot can go only deep enough for the trit to sit below flush - this leaves a solid titanium floor under the vial. Or the slot can go all the way through the slab so there's a small bit of glow inside the scale. Cost for either one is $72.

An accurate drawing or sketch is needed so the slot goes exactly where you want it. The back of the scale is skeletonized in places & you'll want to avoid those. A possible location is right on the end of the scale near the pivot.



Turn around is about 4 weeks, sometimes more.

[machtig]

Barry,

Two quick questions. 1. What light (make, model, part number, etc) do you use to cure the Norland. 2. Have you heard of any of the trits breaking after being set in the Norland. Two of my trits (one each in two separate lights) have cracked and gone dim and I can't figure out why. They are the 2x12mm.

[precisionworks]

What light (make, model, part number, etc) do you use to cure the Norland.

Brian,

Until recently I used a dental curing light called a Coltolux II. It had enough energy output to set Norland but not to fully cure it. They come up on eBay for $20-$30. Info here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ght&highlight= You'll need to remove a small disc filter located inside the head or the Norland will not cure at all.

Norland's website states that final curing can be done by warming the adhesive to 50° C. I used a heating lamp suspended above the light & monitored temps with a Fluke IR thermometer. Because my shop is climate controlled it wasn't hard to maintain the correct temp. The light would stay at 50° C for about one week to fully cure & harden the Norland.

Other members have used UV LED lights for curing. Their stated output is 1/10th of the 3 Joules that Norland specifies, similar to the Coltolux II light, but they should have enough power to set the Norland so it can be warmed for final cure. My new UV curing light (see post #61) sells for over $600 - I don't expect that many members will run out to buy one.

Have you heard of any of the trits breaking after being set in the Norland. Two of my trits (one each in two separate lights) have cracked and gone dim and I can't figure out why. They are the 2x12mm.

That's the first time I've heard of trits cracking after installation. I've seen maybe one or two vials (out of dozens that members sent to me) that had a crack. And I've punctured the ends of a few by trying to extract them from partially cured Norland using a dental pick. The glass body is very thick & the ends are pretty thin so they aren't hard to puncture if any force is used.

All the above is good information but doesn't help you solve your issue. How about this - please ship both lights I'll replace the defective trits at no charge

[machtig]

Barry, you are a true gentleman, but you did not install the trits, I did. If you have any tips on removing the broken trits and cleaning up the slot I'm all ears

For everyone's info, I used one of the led UV flashlights I got from Amazon, and regular old sunlight to set my trits. Obviously thats not cutting it, haha. I should probably read the instructions on the norland. I didn't realize it needed to cure at 50C.

[precisionworks]

I didn't realize it needed to cure at 50°C.

Norland suggests warming as the quickest method to obtain full cure & optimum adhesion to glass. They also state that NOA61 will fully cure after setting for one week: http://www.norlandprod.com/adhesives/noa%2061.html

you did not install the trits, I did. If you have any tips on removing the broken trits and cleaning up the slot I'm all ears

If you'll send the lights & two of the 2x12mm trits I'll get the old ones out & the new ones in. You've had me do a lot of machine work & this is my way of saying thank you for your business.

[machtig]

Norland suggests warming as the quickest method to obtain full cure & optimum adhesion to glass. They also state that NOA61 will fully cure after setting for one week: http://www.norlandprod.com/adhesives/noa%2061.html

If you'll send the lights & two of the 2x12mm trits I'll get the old ones out & the new ones in. You've had me do a lot of machine work & this is my way of saying thank you for your business.

Barry,

Thanks so much. I'll send the lights just as soon as I get the two more 6PXs I ordered so you can bore and mill the trit slots in them as well.

[tobrien]

dang that's a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge light for uv lol

[precisionworks]

dang that's a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge light for uv lol

It's bigger than Alaska but smaller than Siberia so maybe mid sized

All the Norland info suggests a 100 watt mercury vapor lamp & the reason is that Norland requires 3 Joules for hardening. More powerful discharge lamps are available & are used to simulate the effects of sunlight (bleaching, weakening of materials, etc.) They run into thousands or tens of thousands of dollars.

Sunlight is certainly the least expensive way to cure Norland. If it weren't for dust, bugs, pollen, animal hair, and bird droppings it would be pretty good. Nobody wants bird poo on their new light

[tobrien]

It's bigger than Alaska but smaller than Siberia so maybe mid sized

All the Norland info suggests a 100 watt mercury vapor lamp & the reason is that Norland requires 3 Joules for hardening. More powerful discharge lamps are available & are used to simulate the effects of sunlight (bleaching, weakening of materials, etc.) They run into thousands or tens of thousands of dollars.

Sunlight is certainly the least expensive way to cure Norland. If it weren't for dust, bugs, pollen, animal hair, and bird droppings it would be pretty good. Nobody wants bird poo on their new light

exactly. so I used an inova 5x 5mm UV led light once to cure norland and it worked okay, is that type of curing not good long term as far as you know?

[precisionworks]

... I used an inova 5x 5mm UV led light once to cure norland and it worked okay, is that type of curing not good long term as far as you know?

I've not read or heard of any "bad" method to cure Norland. Some, like the 100 watt merc vapor lamp, are faster & easier. Sunlight or UV LED lights take longer but produce the same effect - the Norland hardens from any UV source that contains light in the 320-380nm spectrum.

The dental curing light quickly set the adhesive so that it formed a film over the top of the slot but it then took days of 50° C warming to cure the material under the top layer. I've touched more than one trit slot after 3 or 4 days & ruined the surface, which had to then be redone. The big UV light should eliminate those problems & speed up the process.

[precisionworks]

First time at bat with the new curing light





Trits are 1.5x5mm & green in color. The black light really makes them fluoresce. Upper image has strong tungsten side light & the colors are close to true. Lower image is black light only & that shifts all the colors toward the blue end of the spectrum.

[tobrien]

I've not read or heard of any "bad" method to cure Norland. Some, like the 100 watt merc vapor lamp, are faster & easier. Sunlight or UV LED lights take longer but produce the same effect - the Norland hardens from any UV source that contains light in the 320-380nm spectrum.

The dental curing light quickly set the adhesive so that it formed a film over the top of the slot but it then took days of 50° C warming to cure the material under the top layer. I've touched more than one trit slot after 3 or 4 days & ruined the surface, which had to then be redone. The big UV light should eliminate those problems & speed up the process.

gotcha, thanks man!

[fyrstormer]

I just use a McGizmo Sundrop with a 375nm UV light engine. It works very well. On the highest setting it can actually produce bubbling in the Norland as it reacts so fast, but since it's a three-mode light engine, I just set it on Low, prop it in a position to shine on the tritium slot, and go watch a TV show.

Come to think of it, I should probably buy one of McGizmo's camera-tripod-mount clips for my Sundrop, so I can just put it on a tripod instead of finding ways to prop it at the proper angle.

[precisionworks]

I just use a McGizmo Sundrop with a 375nm UV light engine. It works very well. On the highest setting it can actually produce bubbling in the Norland as it reacts so fast, but since it's a three-mode light engine, I just set it on Low, prop it in a position to shine on the tritium slot, and go watch a TV show.

One of the huge advantages of the new light is that even at 2" (50mm) lamp to trit distance the Norland will not boil or micro bubble. Not sure exactly why but guessing it's the almost black bandpass filter over the mercury vapor bulb. Images from the UVP website:



The lamp can also be run without the filter but there's a ton of visible light & that makes it difficult to look at the target. The spread spectrum is also wider without the filter:

[fyrstormer]

Whatever the reason, it's clearly slowing the reaction and reducing the heat generated to a level that the material can absorb without boiling.

The Sundrop UV is a bit more convenient to hold than the death ray you got, though. I'm content to stick with it.

[precisionworks]

The Sundrop UV is a bit more convenient to hold than the death ray you got, though.

LOL

I surely do like the DeathRay. Set 10 trits this morning, stacking a 2x6mm over a 1.5.5mm in five slots. That was tough with the dental light but it isn't so bad now. Each double slot requires four shots of Norland - one to preset the small trit, a second to preset the large trit, a third to final fill the small slot & the fourth fills the large slot. Still a bit tricky to get it right but it is so much easier because the Norland now precures in roughly 10 seconds. It was endless with the dental light.

[precisionworks]

Set 10 trits this morning, stacking a 2x6mm over a 1.5.5mm in five slots.

As my friends say "Pictures or it didn't happen" so here they are. Outside blue vials are 2x6mm, inside green vials are 1.5x5mm. McGizmo Haiku body.

With the shop lights on:





Shop lights off with a few blinks from a McGizmo SunDrop to make the Ti body visible:





If you look closely at the green trits there is a tiny bit of bleed light from the blues. Same thing goes for the blue trits. In addition to the ten in the tail there are five 2x6mm in the forward collar & six 2x6mm in the head

The Haiku done in February 2012 was mechanically identical but had yellow outer trits:

[precisionworks]

Installed the remaining trits today. Total of 10 in the tail (blue over green), 5 at the shoulder (all white) & 6 in the head (alternating red & green). A "well dressed" Haiku

[precisionworks]

Jeff Hanko's stainless steel Damascus trit bezel for the V10R. IMO the most beautiful bezel I've ever seen. The color & texture of the bezel are a close match for the stone washed body.

[tobrien]

Jeff Hanko's stainless steel Damascus trit bezel for the V10R. IMO the most beautiful bezel I've ever seen. The color & texture of the bezel are a close match for the stone washed body.

that looks phenomenal!

[Launch Mini]

Not sure how I missed this thread before, but this is very cool.
Toying with the idea of adding 4, 5 or 6 to the tail end of a Haiku.
Will need to look at my light tonight and see what I think would work.
Would you only want the tail section mailed to you or the whole light?
I would install my own trits, so just need the slots.
Assuming shipping back to Canada would be around $30?
Thanks

[precisionworks]

that looks phenomenal!

Thank you for your kind words. Jeff gets all the credit for machining the bezel & milling the trit slots, my job was to install the trits with Norland.

Would you only want the tail section mailed to you or the whole light?
I would install my own trits, so just need the slots.
Assuming shipping back to Canada would be around $30?

Just the tail section is needed & you can send it with the clip attached if you want. I use only the MIP Thorp driver to remove or reinstall titanium screws - if you don't have a Thorp driver please don't try to remove the clip.

Priority Mail Intl is $13.00 USD, Express Mail Intl is $60.00 USD.

[bltkmt]

Is there any place on an Aeon that these can be successfully installed?

[precisionworks]

any place on an Aeon

I've look an the Aeon that I EDC and cannot find any area that's both wide enough & deep enough for a slot. A 1.5x5mm vial could possible be glued down next to the raised ridge on the tail & that's something that might be possible.