Why such limited AA selection among premium manufacturers?

I think Surefire only recently started to include AAs in its line-up, although I don't see any 1xAA lights, and HDS, who's big on single cells, offers nothing in AAs (any more) at all. And even the higher-end Chinese companies seem to premier their new lights in 123 well before following up with a AA version.

I can appreciate that 3V can provide roughly double the lumens output, but even that increase is only perceived as a 40% increase to our eyes. Outside of that, there doesn't seem to be any real advantages in terms of capacity/runtimes, or the use of rechargeable Li-ions, and no options for NiMh. Furthermore, 123 primaries are more expensive than L91s, harder to find, and generally incompatible with most other portable electronics - meaning much more limited back-up options.

I can't believe the increased lumens are that much more important to these companies since I do see 123 products in their line-ups that have max lumens well within reach the reach of a AA.

So what am I missing? Why do they shun the AA market?

Maybe they are afraid that people will use alkaline batteries that are prone to leak and ruin the light that is under warranty.

Hi Reppans! As far as I can figure (purely conjecture and my own opinions here) Most premium light manufacturers seem to stay away from "household standard" batteries such as AAA's and AA's because of their limited capacities (physical and virtual). I mean that most lights running a "common" 2 cell set up will either have a super long runtime with a super low output, or a super low runtime with a super high output. Li-ions and Li-poly batteries "remedy" this problem with generally higher capacities/voltages/currents etc. Also, most "premium" companies tend to manufacture Mil-spec lights, and generally tend not to cater to the average non-flashaholic consumer; they assume the clientele already know what they're doing. (as a side note, manufacturers like to advertise MAX lumens or MAX runtimes, and it might not be in their business interest to make something that has either unimpressive runtimes or unimpressive outputs)

There are more options than you're implying. HDS made a small run of 2xAA bodies and may make more if he can get his supply chain in order, McGizmo makes a 2xAA body that can run the majority of his heads and a couple AAA lights to boot, Peak has a variety of AA and AAA options, Malkoff has a 2xAA body, and there are surely other options out there that don't come to mind immediately.

Alkaline batteries are a bad choice for use in any electronics. While lithium AAs are good, you have it right on that they run at a lower voltage. Double the lumens makes a big difference in a market where most customers are looking for that big lumen number (whether it makes a difference in their actual use or not). I think CR123s are still a very valid choice and I prefer them to AAs for size and power.

Beyond primaries, a lot of premium manufacturers are focused on LiIon rechargeables. There are tons of 18650 lights out there.

I forgot to mention, the form factor that most people will try to go for is smaller. 2xcr123's outputs much more than 2xaa, and at about 2/3 the size, which might be exactly what the manufacturers are aiming for in their production. (another marketing ploy, smaller form flashlights with higher output? who wouldn't want that? I know we at CPF love that lol)

dc38 said:

Also, most "premium" companies tend to manufacture Mil-spec lights, and generally tend not to cater to the average non-flashaholic consumer; they assume the clientele already know what they're doing.

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I guess this is the main reason I question the strategy... their core customer base being flashaholics 1) already tend to have NiMh and Li-Ion chargers, and with the latter, there is NO advantage to 123s and 2) if I borrow a common theme from the "lessons learned" thread, experienced users would rather take runtime over output any day - and IMHO, the way more diverse back-up options of the AA format, translates to added runtime.

Point taken on size (although thicker), which also has me puzzled why, when these guys do offer a AA something, it almost always in 2xAA format, very rarely an EDC-able 1xAA (probably because it's easier just to match the 3V of their 123 heads....since they really don't want to address the AA market).

Z-Tab...yeah, I knew about those as well but, McGizmo is kinda way out there in terms of pricing, and Peak - I can't tell anything about their lights from what their websites says - talk about trying to confuse the customer. :thumbsdow

2 X AA is a gateway format lead by MiniMags. I first purchased a L0D for my keychain, then went to L2D as an upgrade to my MiniMag LED 2 AA. For most noobs.. it is enough utility. Later, one starts to think about Lithium/flood/throw/tint/PWM....

I was all about aa when I started, then realised the brightness gains in a smaller package offered by li ion, which suits my needs better, almost perfectly, but if the next greatest battery tech came along like any other on here I would jump on the band wagon and get a light that put out more light than I need

I would also like to add, I have Zebralights in several models in 1xAA, my Fenix LD10, my Quark mini AA, my Jetbeam RRT-0 with it's AA adapter, my Sunwayman V10R Ti with it's AA adapter, probably others I can't think of ATM.

I'll stick to AAA/AA. The thought of a potential pipebomb stored in a pocket next to 'Mr. Happy' doesn't exactly inspire a lot of confidence. Most products geared towards lithium batts have a path to vent, not so with a watertight light.

Plus, lights in the reg battery category are sufficient enough now for the task at hand,(we're a long way from 5mm/LuxI days) anything else is just lumens porn.

I think they are just avoiding the expense of boost drivers.

LightWalker said:

Maybe they are afraid that people will use alkaline batteries that are prone to leak and ruin the light that is under warranty.

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Yes, this is a big factor I bet.

Yeah, I'm running 14500s in my lights now, even have a Quark Turbo 123^2 that I'm running 14500s in a AA^2 tube. The outright power is nice, but it's questionable if the added Li-ion procedures and hassles are worth it. Really don't want to run 16340s since I like the back-up options of always having AA Eneloops around me, in other devices at the very least. To be honest, my lights tend to be a lower priority most of the time, and I would cannibalize their batteries for other devices, but I lose that option with the 14500s.

All those Chinese lights are great, and I have several of them, but let's face it, they're second tier. The RRT and V10, w/extenders, are great examples of a 123-designed light adapted to AAs, as an afterthought - less than ideal sizing IMHO. Just wish I could try something as good (well, as people say they are) as a Surefire or HDS without sacrificing battery compatibility with all my other stuff.

reppans said:

...and Peak - I can't tell anything about their lights from what their websites says - talk about trying to confuse the customer. :thumbsdow

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I agree, I bought a 2xAAA Eiger as a pen light a couple of years ago and had the hardest time figuring out what I wanted. I got my info from a thread on CPF where they had reviewed some Peak lights.

Back to the original question, I am a HUGE fan of the "standard" batteries. It is hard for me to find CR123's around town in a pinch, but everyone has AAs

vickers214 said:

I was all about aa when I started, then realised the brightness gains in a smaller package offered by li ion, which suits my needs better, almost perfectly, but if the next greatest battery tech came along like any other on here I would jump on the band wagon and get a light that put out more light than I need

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It would take 4 AA batteries to get the same runtime as one 18650 and all the 4xAA lights I've seen are pretty bulky.

Because an alkaline AA has half the capacity of a CR123 despite being larger, and around 6 times less power capacity of a 18650. Consequently, it is reduced to less than 100 lumens and even then it would struggle to get even 1 hour out of it. There are other disadvantages like the tendency for the MnO electrolyte to leak, short shelf life and the cost of replacements. Which is the most popular batteries on here are rechargeable Li-ons.

Good things about standard AA batteries:

(1) Available anywhere
(2) When unused, last for years (good in emergency)

Bad things about standard AA batteries:

(1) Low capacity
(2) High internal resistance
(3) Low current-delivery capability
(4) Native voltage (1.5v) is below typical LED (~3.3v), requiring boost driver
(5) Prone to leaking

The reason lithium-ion cells are so popular:

(1) High capacity
(2) Low internal resistance
(3) High current-delivery capability
(4) Native voltage (3.7v) is perfectly matched to LED, so minimal buck/boost required
(5) Not prone to leaking

The downsides of li-ion to be aware of:

(1) Not readily available
(2) When unused, some capacity loss is permanent
(3) If unprotected and seriously abused, can explode (but you really have to earn it)

Li-ion batteries, due to its inherent characteristics are more suited to people with demanding lighting needs who choose the better (premium) branded lights. So the trend that the OP spotted is very normal. HOWEVER, I like to point out that a number of prominent light manufacturers that makes AA lights support li-ion 14500 as well as the primary and Ni-MH cell. That is awesome.

Lights like 4Sevens Quark Mini AA allows people to enjoy li-ion advantages well as the regular AA's convenience.

For those of you comparing battery chemistries, you should drop alkalines, and for that matter NiMh.... These two chemistries are purely bonus options that simply not available to 123 lights - and that's the real crux of this thread.

If you want to compare primaries, i think it would be fair to use L91s, and if you want to compare rechargeables, I think it would be fair to use 1 or 2x14500.

Using fair chemistry comparisons, I think the advantages of the 123 format are greatly diminished, and IMHO, not nearly worth what you're giving up.... two super cheap, available, and safe chemistries that are completely compatible with most portable electronic devices you are probably carrying.

berry580 said:

.....HOWEVER, I like to point out that a number of prominent light manufacturers that makes AA lights support li-ion 14500 as well as the primary and Ni-MH cell. That is awesome.

Lights like 4Sevens Quark Mini AA .....

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Yes exactly, but only the mid-priced Chinese manufacturers are doing this. I'd love to try a similar light from one of these reputed "built-proof" companies, but I really like my NiMh and Alk. "options".

Btw, I know the regular Quarks are rated for 4.2v, didn't think the Mini was though..

Sunwayman V10A, still one of my favorites...


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