Surefire Question

feathers73

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Being relatively new to flashlights I was wondering how Surefire compares to the other "high end" flashlights. Are they still considered one of the best? My impressions may be misguided but I have been doing a lot of reading here and on retail sites trying to learn as much as I can. It seems that Surefire may not have as much output or features as some other the other brands but they seem tough, well built. I guess it's a matter of what you are really looking for. Having said all that, I was thinking of getting a Titan. Seems really expensive but really a neat flashlight. Perhaps add one AA version (EL2) since I don't have one and follow up with a Fury? Anyone own all three of these and if so could you comment on how you like these three lights? Thanks for looking.
 

Imon

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I hope this thread doesn't turn into a flame war :shakehead

....OK...
I personally like Surefires - I have probably owned around a dozen in my lifetime and I currently own four. I have never regretted a Surefire purchase but it all depends on the person. In my opinion Surefire's build quality is one of the best, if not the best, among production flashlights.
Their Type III HA kicksa** and they have great customer service.
That said, what I don't think a lot of people understand about SF lights is that many, if not most, are purpose built to fulfill a certain need and it fulfills that role in a great way. If you want a versatile light with 5 different brightness settings strobe, SOS, beacon, and all other sorts of settings then there are lights like that - such as the Quark (an excellent light as well). So it all depends on your wants and needs and personal taste.
Sure they are expensive, and I'm very sorry if I offend anyone with this analogy but I feel sometimes like SFs annual price hikes are like spousal abuse. They beat us flashaholics to the ground with their price but for some reason we always come back. :sigh:
 

FPSRelic

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You've got the right of it I think. You can certainly get brighter lights out there that are still pretty solid, which ends to arc up the "why would you buy Surefire" rants, but personally I see those lights as being in a different class. The Surefire's are built like a tank (especially their HA models) and have that exellent lifetime warranty. They're consistent when it comes to their regulated lights.

Their high modes, for example, will give you watever the max output rating is from the time you switch it on until the time that the battery levels cause it to go out of regulation. That is, if it says that it gives you 200 lumens on max mode, that the amount of light it gives you until the batteries start to die. They don't drive their emitter too hard to get that "750 lumen max output" rating, so there's no ramping down due to thermal protection, or to conserve power to make runtimes look better. What you see is pretty much what you get.

There are other manufacturers out there that are comparable to Surefire - Elzetta, First-Light, Streamlight and Malkoff just to name a couple. If you're looking at alternatives, you might want to check out those.

I can't say that I own any of the three lights you suggested, but I'll put my 2 cents in, even if it's just to keep this thread OT. If you're keen on the Titan, I'd hold off for a bit. The 2012 catalog shows lists it with a brighter output, which some are suggesting is an emitter upgrade. The Fury is more of a mainstream light, along the lines of the G2X and 6PX series. Personally I see them as being comparable to the Fenix TK and Foursevens Maelstrom series of lights. I would still go Surefire over the other two brands, but that's me being brand loyal here and luvin' that lifetime warranty. The E2L AA is definately a good light, It's on the list of lights I want to buy.
 

yifu

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Stock Surefires are alright... But most members here own modded surefires. There's a mod for virtually every Surefire, Milkyspit mods for L1/L2/L4/E1B/T1A etc, P60 drop ins for 3P/6P/9P/Z2/Z3/C2/C3, Veleno/Kuku XPG tower modules for E1E/E2E/E2D, FiveMega sockets for the C series, Z series, E series, C series, M series, Nailbender tower modules for the M2/M3/M4, boring of the body tubes, Calipsoli rings for the A2, emitter swaps etc. There's a lot more that i haven't listed but there's a huge market on CPF for modded Surefires, which are brighter than the stock ones, offer more features and retain the same quality... I love my Surefires.
 
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Z-Tab

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I think the T1A Titan has the best casual user UI of any light. The stock emitter is not great, mine was a little blueish, so I had it modded to a Hi-CRI XP-G and I honestly think that it is a near perfect light now.

While Surefires may seem expensive, they are a great company to deal with and their lights work exactly as advertised (which cannot be said for some other popular manufacturers on here).
 

Imon

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I think the T1A Titan has the best casual user UI of any light. The stock emitter is not great, mine was a little blueish, so I had it modded to a Hi-CRI XP-G and I honestly think that it is a near perfect light now.

While Surefires may seem expensive, they are a great company to deal with and their lights work exactly as advertised (which cannot be said for some other popular manufacturers on here).

My goodness are the T1As still using the SSC P4?
 

Z-Tab

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I don't think the T1A has changed emitter since it was introduced. Supposedly, it will be getting a bump this year, but the new ones have not come through the supply chain yet and I don't think anybody knows when they might land.

As far as neat UIs go, I might combine the T1A and Fury funds and get a UB3T, which is a very impressive light (2-800 lumens on a control ring). Though that leaves the EDC slot unfilled...
 

angelofwar

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If you want a 2-AA light that you can take to hell and back, and have it completely replaced if it melts on the trip, then the E2L-AA is the light for you. Nothing fancy...purpose built. Surefire selects reasonable lumen amounts. The could get more out of the E2L-AA, but why? That's there logic. You get a usable low and a usable high at USEFUL run-times. If you want lights that are usable for reasonable real world tasks, a few other models to consider are the L1, L2, and LX2. Used Surefires can be had at a decent price on the Marketplace...and there's not really much of a difference between a used and new SF. They have higher than usual re-sell value for a reason. Hope this helps, and Welcome!

Edit: Get a decent AA Solar Charger, quality RC (Eneloop/Duraloops), for your E2L-AA, and you have the perfect Zombie Apocalypse light.
 

yifu

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You can easily do an emitter swap or pay someone to do it, like milkyspit, vinh to name a few!
 

skyfire

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imho surefire is still the overall best large production manufacturer, by a long shot. they have a wide variety of models, proven quality and reliability, great warranty and service. Malkoff and HDS are many other preferred brands, but are smaller companies more on the custom side.

true some models are older, and the LED used isnt the latest and greatest. but if it aint broke... why fix it?
the T1A and E2L-AA are still on my "buy" list.
you might want to check out the HDS rotary as well. another light on my list, but as of now availability is scarce.
the E2L-AA is probably the best 2xAA light. good runtimes on high and low. surefire often underrates their lumens too, so youll be getting more than the 80 lumens on high.
my friend has a E1L and its rated at 45 lumens on high, and i swear its delivering over 100 lumens.
the only other 2xAA light i would look at is a malkoff 2xAA twisty.
 

jamesmtl514

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I think I've owned about 20-25 SF lights. I liked them all, I still have about 15. The only reason I sold them is because I had them in duplicates, sometimes triplicates or I found another that was too similar.
They are fantastic lights, beautifully designed and very customizable.

They are also a great stepping stone to custom titanium lights.
 

TadpolePilot

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Look at a SolarForce L2 series. Look at the L2P. Can find the factory on the net.
I have used Streamlight when it was called Kel-Light in 1965. They are behind times. Strion Led recharable got one and gave it away. 20 + years LEO most officers seemed to use Streamlights because easy and fast to recharge.
I am 70 1/2 and no need for anything espensive or buildt like a tank. I like bright and light. Paid $42.00 for HA111 Special Edition.
Good luck let us know what you do.
 
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0dBm

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Surefire flashlight products compare quite favorably to the products of other makers. This statement would have evoked a fiery, explosive diatribe during the early 2000s from many members in this forum. In its halcyon days, the artifact-free superior "beam" of Surefire incandescent lamp assemblies housed in specialized, diminutive battery compartments that accommodated the CR123 lithium cell comprised a product that clearly eclipsed those behemoths offered by such stalwart makers as Streamlight and Maglite in terms of size-to weight-ratio. Surefire's marketing campaign in the early days was comprised of a visual comparison between the flawed, relatively anemic outputs of those large, duty flashlights that it was quick to denigrate as compared to the "flawless beam" of its stipled-reflectored P-series lamps. This was a very successful advertisement campaign that bolstered it sales much to the pleasure of Surefire's investors and the behest of those of the two stalwart makers.

Surefire then began to offer a bewildering plethora of variations if its base product line as fueled by the creative ideas of its chief designer and the enthusiasm created by the Surefire discussion forum that it ran concurrent to this forum up to about 2003. Surefire at that time, clearly, was at the top of the game.

As LED technology quickly developed and manufacturers with their innovative products soon deluged the market, Surefire, with purportedly heavy commitments to the law military and law enforcement sectors, found itself eclipsed on the commercial/consumer market; one in which it purportedly never intended to directly compete. Soon, its products began to lose much of the luster of cutting-edge technology it once had in the late 90s/early 2000s. Slow to offer consumer-targeted products, Surefire replied with the E-Series but still in incandescent lamps at a time when smaller, rapid-responding makers embraced high-power LED technology.

Today, Surefire's purported commitment to quality appears as anachronistic as those "Goliath"-esque makers it challenged in its days as a tiny, fledgling, "David"-like laser manufacturer in Fountain Valley, California. The company remains privately-held, still located in that quiet, Orange County suburb, and looking much like the established stalwart makers it once faced in its early days. Its comparatively small manufacturing facility is rich in the usage of state-of-the-art machinery but may remain distant in terms of output as compared to one of the other big manufacturers.

Surefire's use of integrating sphere light measuring techniques as a means to publish more scientific lumen values most certainly underscores its commitment to realistically characterizing its products in the military/LE market. This practice now largely undermines its consumer market edge as compared to the higher output values typically advertised by many makers competing in this crowded market.

The Surefire pocketable, illumination tool product line has undergone some recent revisions in the form of curtailment of its once-bewildering offerings. Although some remain, gone are some of the uniquely-designed "combat" models with their extreme machining lines that would seem more fit in the hands of an extraterrestrial being in a science fiction novel. Most current models seem to embody the plain, ordinary battery tube. Some models are now offered in lower-cost variants, in consumer colors, and in once "unheard-of" retail locations such as Lowes and Home Depot; marketing locales once dominated by the likes of the C, D, and AA models of Maglite.

Surefire flashlight products, where once it was the premier choice of enthusiasts, is now just one of the standard choices. Its uniqueness is in the conservatism of its lumen output, the within-series modularity of its components, the superior customer service, and the well-deserved reputation of reliability.

I have original models 6P, 9N, 9P, 6Z, and 12ZM somewhere in storage with a Maglite Magcharger and a Streamlight Ultrastinger. Although I have not purchased a new Surefire flashlight since the late 2001 acquisition of a Model M2 (now fitted with a LED module), I acquired the L6 in 2003 (now modded with a P4 LED). Both see "duty" in separate gun boxes and checked weekly for operation but neither would be the one that I grab when I need my firearm for defense. None of these Surefire models see regular usage. For me, there are other products by other makers that fit my current needs. Just as Maglite and Streamlight, Surefire flashlight products have come and gone in my current battery.
 

awenta

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Best is a subjective term. Surefire doesn't have all the modes and features and whatnot. We keep buying them because quite simply they are the best built production light. They are bomb proof. And their warranty is awesome.
 

Gatsby

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Not much to add really on this that hasn't been said - I own a handful of things - E1L, E2L, L1, G2X Pro, all stock, and some modified lights (Milky Creemator, Milky SST50, bored 6P w/Nailbender XML, KL1/Aleph/McE2S) and I still use them for certain purposes. If pushed to bring one and only one light with me on a bugout type situation I would probably grab my E2L and that is saying something. What do I still find attractive about SF products? I have a high level of faith that any of the stock lights will work, as advertised and specced, every time I pick it up...

And there is something still really unique about how they design their lights - they aren't perfect - but they serve their intended purpose very very well, in a reliable way, and if you ever have a problem they are very very good about making things right.
 

GhostMeat

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I just like the overall quality of the Surefires. I have a 6PX Pro and a Fury and they just feel solid. I do have a number of various Fenix, JetBeam, and other brands. They are great too. But my Surefires just feel like tanks in-hand.

I have a buddy of mine who is really into lights (Yes, I realize I'm on CPF. Haha!) ...but he's not a quality freak like I am. He'll go out and get all the gun show off brand little $35 lights that have high lumen ratings and all kinds of bells and whistles. They just all feel flimsy and unreliable. He drops them and they break. Their LEDs kinda flicker out on him sometimes. I dunno...not my bag.

I don't know much about drop ins and stuff like that (this is post #3 or #4 for me after all), but I would say that I would like to put something in my Fury that lets me use rechargeable batteries. Other than that, I dig'em.

gm.
 
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