Any AA(14500)/CR123(16340) single cell lights that run Li-ons without restriction?

sspc · May 3, 2012

Hello,

As I look for my next smallish single cell light (AA or CR123 size), I have been noticing a trend...they all seem to warn/limit the amount of time these lights should be run on a li-on batt on high.

Are there any XML emitter (or XPG emitter if XML not available) 14500 or 16340 flashlights that allow li-on use on high without restrictions/warnings/disclaimers?

shelm · May 3, 2012

i dont have any problems with running 1x14500 for the full battery's life (900mAh) in Quark X, Xeno E03 or Cletus P1A. Most 1x14500 lights on dealextreme come with no warnings/etc, there you have it

Fireclaw18 · May 3, 2012

shelm said:
i dont have any problems with running 1x14500 for the full battery's life (900mAh) in Quark X, Xeno E03 or Cletus P1A. Most 1x14500 lights on dealextreme come with no warnings/etc, there you have it

Xeno E03 comes with the warning.

Basically he needs a light that's so overbuilt and/or underdriven that heat isn't an issue on high mode even when tailstanding the light for the full life of the battery.

Offhand I could think of the following lights that probably meet the bill:

Zebralight SC80: runs fine on 14500 cells. Should be no heat issues due to XPG emitter that's not overdriven. Light output isn't gigantic though.
Nitecore D11.2: supposedly runs fine on 14500. Circuit gives the same output on 14500 as it does on regular AA, so heat shouldn't be an issue.

I can't think of any really high output (450+ lumens) 1x14500 lights that I'd feel comfortable leaving on high tailstanding though.

Danielight · May 3, 2012

I haven't had any problems running my SWM V10A on a 14500. Of course, I don't keep it on for very long, maybe a few minutes. After running it, the front bezel feels a little warm, but not hot.

Gryffin · May 3, 2012

sspc said:
As I look for my next smallish single cell light (AA or CR123 size), I have been noticing a trend...they all seem to warn/limit the amount of time these lights should be run on a li-on batt on high.

It's not just the little lights, even the 2xCR123A/18650-size lights have step-downs now. (Even my Scorpion, and it's a big ol' beast.)

That's because the light manufacturers are up against the laws of physics. Three amps into an XM-L is gunna generate a certain amount of heat, which if not dissipated will damage the emitter, or worse. A smaller light can't dissipate heat much heat, so it'll build up if run on HIGH for any length of time.

If you don't want to deal with the restrictions/warnings/disclaimers, then either don't run at such high power, or run it in a much bigger, heavier light with good heat dissipation.

Personally, I'm beginning to doubt that an XM-L at max is really appropriate for small lights. Besides the heat problem, there's no way to get any decent throw from such a large die in a 20mm reflector. If it's flood you need, then great; but if you're gunna run it at lower power to avoid the heat problem, you're prolly better off with an XR-E or similar.

sspc · May 3, 2012

Thanks all for the suggestion. If I could gurantee I could get a properly functioning Nitecore D11.2, I'd be all over it. As for lights on DX, we know better than to blindly trust the descriptions on their lights.

Gryffin said:
It's not just the little lights, even the 2xCR123A/18650-size lights have step-downs now. (Even my Scorpion, and it's a big ol' beast.).

Good point. I actually love that my Eagletac D25LC2 (running on a 18650) steps down after 90 or so seconds. It seems like the best (and safest) compromise.

tandem · May 3, 2012

Even a biggish SureFire 6P or C2 gets mighty hot when running an XM-L at full bore continuously. I would not run an AA or CR123 XML light that is driven anywhere near 3A, not in continuous mode anyway. A hard driven XM-L should be mated with a cell that is a better match in terms of current draw vs capacity unless the light is only for short gee-whiz that's bright demonstrations.

An XP-G or XR-E light on the other hand - sure - let it run till dead. It'll get warm but not burn your hands hot.

XM-L (or multi-emitter XP-G) lights on small or larger bodies in my view should always be locked out when not in use. Accidentally turned on in a pocket and left there, they may well get to the point of starting a fire.

sspc · May 3, 2012

The dissaponiting part for me is that it discourages me from buying any of the newer CR123 sized lights as I don't believe in running primaries for a light I will EDC (I like to use my lights for no reason at all) and I don't want to have a light around that could be picked up by someone other than me that can't be run on every mode without limitation.

I think I'll just pick the Eagletac D25A and run it on eneloops.

tandem · May 3, 2012

I have a SureFire T1A Titan that I carry around often - it's a single CR123 sized variable output light with a wicked blue tint (think Avatar). Older LED tech. More seriously it is small and being variable is very useful. I run it on 16340 li-ion cells without issues. I think it could be left on high forever without issues, not that "forever" is very long with a 16340!

My other small light is a Fenix LD10 single AA. I use Eneloops not 14500's in it. Very useful as well.

Those two lights are my go-small EDC lights that I'd be more likely to carry in the summer months. The LD10 sits in my construction tool belt otherwise. In fall and winter I tend to carry a SureFire 6P with a Malkoff module in it and feed it 18650's. I don't mind carrying a larger light when it is cooler as jacket pockets are larger and often I'm carrying a day pack having eschewed briefcases some time ago.

Maybe one day when my kids are a little older I'll train them up on the proper care and feeding of li-ion powered lights. For now they all have their own AA and AAA(keychain) flashlights running Eneloops.

Again on XM-L lights I have accidentally left one on, only once. Those and multi-emitter lights can do damage and aren't my first choice for an EDC light, personally.

sspc · May 3, 2012

tandem said:
I have a SureFire T1A Titan that I carry around often - it's a single CR123 sized variable output light with a wicked blue tint (think Avatar). Older LED tech. More seriously it is small and being variable is very useful. I run it on 16340 li-ion cells without issues. I think it could be left on high forever without issues, not that "forever" is very long with a 16340!

My other small light is a Fenix LD10 single AA. I use Eneloops not 14500's in it. Very useful as well.

Those two lights are my go-small EDC lights that I'd be more likely to carry in the summer months. The LD10 sits in my construction tool belt otherwise. In fall and winter I tend to carry a SureFire 6P with a Malkoff module in it and feed it 18650's. I don't mind carrying a larger light when it is cooler as jacket pockets are larger and often I'm carrying a day pack having eschewed briefcases some time ago.

Maybe one day when my kids are a little older I'll train them up on the proper care and feeding of li-ion powered lights. For now they all have their own AA and AAA(keychain) flashlights running Eneloops.

Again on XM-L lights I have accidentally left one on, only once. Those and multi-emitter lights can do damage and aren't my first choice for an EDC light, personally.

Nice!!!

I have a Zebralight H51F and a Nitecore D10 and I run both on Eneloopish type NIHM batts, but the H51F is limited with its almost full flood beam and the D10 I don't trust to fire up everytime as it can behave strangely with no warning.

I have a ITP C7 and I love the reliability of this AA light (can run continuously on 14500s with no issue) as I trust this light to fire up/work every time, but it's just as long as my single 18650 light (Eagletac D25LC2) so that's no contest as I will choose the 18650 light every time.

arnstein · May 3, 2012

ShiningBeam is a web retailer that you might have heard of from this forum. They sell a line of flashlights under their own name at decent prices.

In particular, they sell some flashlights that have interchangeable tubes for AA, CR123, and 2xAA. I bought a kit named "Spark" that shipped with 1xCR123 and 2xAA tubes. Then I bought a 1xAA tube. I am currently using this light with the 1xAA tube. You can buy the 1xAA configuration directly. That would probably make more sense for you.

I find that the 1xAA light works very well with a 14500 battery. If I operate the highest setting for an extended period of time, the light does heat up. Personally, I like this arrangement: the high setting pushes the envelope. The next setting down is bright enough to be useful, and runs safely for hours.

The web page listing for this light explicitly supports 14500. It also lists the voltage range for the light as 1 to 4.2 volts.

I like these lights. ShiningBeam offers several options, including different tints. I did find a bit of flakiness in the tail switch, but it is no longer an issue. I believe that the electrical connection between the switch and the flashlight body was problematic. I cleaned the two surfaces and now everything is solid.

Racer · May 3, 2012

sspc said:
The dissaponiting part for me is that it discourages me from buying any of the newer CR123 sized lights as I don't believe in running primaries for a light I will EDC (I like to use my lights for no reason at all) and I don't want to have a light around that could be picked up by someone other than me that can't be run on every mode without limitation.

Your car won't stop you from revving the engine until it explodes, or putting it into first gear at highway speeds. That doesn't mean I want the car to put limitations on what I can do with it. I want to make those kinds of decisions myself. If I owned a Ferrari there would only be certain people I would loan it to. The same with my 16340 pocket rockets. If my mom or sister ask to borrow a flashlight, I give them one of my AA lights with an AA in it.

Gryffin · May 3, 2012

Racer said:
Your car won't stop you from revving the engine until it explodes, or putting it into first gear at highway speeds. That doesn't mean I want the car to put limitations on what I can do with it. I want to make those kinds of decisions myself. If I owned a Ferrari there would only be certain people I would loan it to. The same with my 16340 pocket rockets. If my mom or sister ask to borrow a flashlight, I give them one of my AA lights with an AA in it.

That's a good way to look at it. I might quote you on that, some day!

"With great power comes great responsibility."

sspc · May 4, 2012

Racer said:
Your car won't stop you from revving the engine until it explodes, or putting it into first gear at highway speeds. That doesn't mean I want the car to put limitations on what I can do with it. I want to make those kinds of decisions myself. If I owned a Ferrari there would only be certain people I would loan it to. The same with my 16340 pocket rockets. If my mom or sister ask to borrow a flashlight, I give them one of my AA lights with an AA in it.

Interesting analogy but I would never loan out the lights in question to anyone...but my concern would be lights being used if I weren't around (for whatever reason). My new approach is to not have any flashlight/battery combos that would be a danger to operate for anyone in my house. So a light with a warning to not use li-ons for more than X minutes would not get lions. If I'm not around to explain which lights to use and which lights not to use, it won't be an issue to worry about.

In fact, I'm likely going to retire my few 14500s and 16340s and just continue to run my AA lights on eneloops. The only cr123 light I have can also run on AAs because of an interchangeable tube.

So that leaves me with my 3 single cell 18650 lights (solarforce skyline II, Eagletac T20C2, Eagletac D25LC2 twisty) which can all run on high for extended periods on li-ons.

Fireclaw18 · May 4, 2012

sspc said:
Interesting analogy but I would never loan out the lights in question to anyone...but my concern would be lights being used if I weren't around (for whatever reason). My new approach is to not have any flashlight/battery combos that would be a danger to operate for anyone in my house. So a light with a warning to not use li-ons for more than X minutes would not get lions. If I'm not around to explain which lights to use and which lights not to use, it won't be an issue to worry about.

In fact, I'm likely going to retire my few 14500s and 16340s and just continue to run my AA lights on eneloops. The only cr123 light I have can also run on AAs because of an interchangeable tube.

So that leaves me with my 3 single cell 18650 lights (solarforce skyline II, Eagletac T20C2, Eagletac D25LC2 twisty) which can all run on high for extended periods on li-ons.

Actually you might want to get rid of all your li-ion cell lights. Even 18650s can be dangerous if someone in your house leaves the light running and overdischarges your batteries. If you're worried about small kids getting hold of any of your lights then perhaps you shouldn't have any li-ion lights at all.

Racer · May 4, 2012

I wouldn't let li-ion batteries anywhere near my loved ones. Oh wait, they all have laptops...

ChrisGarrett · May 4, 2012

Fireclaw18 said:
Xeno E03 comes with the warning.

Basically he needs a light that's so overbuilt and/or underdriven that heat isn't an issue on high mode even when tailstanding the light for the full life of the battery.

Offhand I could think of the following lights that probably meet the bill:

Zebralight SC80: runs fine on 14500 cells. Should be no heat issues due to XPG emitter that's not overdriven. Light output isn't gigantic though.
Nitecore D11.2: supposedly runs fine on 14500. Circuit gives the same output on 14500 as it does on regular AA, so heat shouldn't be an issue.

I can't think of any really high output (450+ lumens) 1x14500 lights that I'd feel comfortable leaving on high tailstanding though.

I got an E03 NW last week and just checked the 'instructions' and don't see anywhere where they give a warning for the 14500. In fact, they mention that their runtimes on NiMH and the 14500 are derived from leaving the light on until output diminishes, for the 3 levels. For a 800 mAh 14500, they get 20 min, but they don't mention anything about running the light for only the typical 5 minutes, or 10 minutes, on high (turbo).

Chris

sspc · May 4, 2012

Fireclaw18 said:
Actually you might want to get rid of all your li-ion cell lights. Even 18650s can be dangerous if someone in your house leaves the light running and overdischarges your batteries. If you're worried about small kids getting hold of any of your lights then perhaps you shouldn't have any li-ion lights at all.

Not as worried by this as my batteries have always been well cared for and more importantly, the lights don't have issues running for extended periods on high. But if I'm not around (by this, I don't mean not at home at the time, but incompacitated in some way) I want any light anyone grabs able to be run on whatever mode for however long without issue.

I'm not concerned with the light or batt surviving (knowone in my house will try to recharge a 18650 size batt anyway) but if a light is needed in an emergency, it won't matter which one they grab, what mode it starts in, and how long they run it.

zenbeam · May 8, 2012

I got a Xeno E03 last week and just yesterday I received two EagleTac 750mAh 14500's (from illuminationgear.com who tops them off before shipping them out!). Last night I put one of those in the E03 and man was I truly blown away by the difference! I had read this and that, but wow, when they were saying it could do 430lm on one of these vs the 120lm on an AA - I was a bit skeptical until I saw this light roar! lol

It blows away both my 1x CR123A lights (EagleTac D25C 209lm OTF and JETBeam BC10 270lm OTF)!

I have a whole new respect for everything I've read about the 14500's (and this very, very nice Xeno E03 for that matter!).

And BTW, my Xeno E03 has no mention of 14500 restrictions in its instructions nor on the mfg website either.

Colonel Sanders · May 8, 2012

The Zebralight SC31 would be my first choice for a small XP-G powered by 1x16340. It makes plenty of light for most day to day tasks and doesn't run hot. It's hard to beat the Zebralight UI, IMO.

Any AA(14500)/CR123(16340) single cell lights that run Li-ons without restriction?

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