Tanks in Disguise

SimulatedZero

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What is it about the E line of Fenix Lights that makes them so tough? Is it their simplistic design? Simple electronics and UI's maybe? Or was implicit in their original design?

I only own the E11 and the E21 out of that line, but they are incredibly tough. I have dropped, hit things, dunked in water, covered in mud, dragged, and kicked my E21. None of which has been on purpose, so far. My E11 has been through worse. I have run it though the washing machine and the dryer (I left it in my pants pocket). I have tossed it out of cars going 35 mph on to pavement. I have tossed it off of second stories into pools, flower beds, and on to concrete. I pretty much have been torturing it on purpose just to see how long it lasts.The E21 will soon be going through its own purposeful battery of tests. But not once have I had a problem with either of these two lights.

Why are they so tough? After I pulled the E11 out of the washing machine I opened it to inspect the inside. The was a very small amount of water on the battery and on the reverse polarity protection ring. And that was after going through the dryer. Yet the light kept working. It boggles my mind how people spend so much time and money looking for lights that will never quit working. Yet here they sit, in disguise as budget lights, for 30 and 25 dollars respectively. I know that they aren't the brightest or have only two modes. But, they are tough. Very tough from what my experience has shown me.
 

Racer

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To me, those lights are well suited as last-resort backup lights. Out in the woods I'll likely have my EDC plus an 18650 light, with a light like the E01 as backup. When/if everything else fails, I know that I can twist on the E01 and light will come out. I keep one on the wife's keychain and I know that our teenagers who borrow the car use it regularly. It doesn't put out a lot of light, but that is not its purpose.
 

LGT

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I don't think it's a constant search for lights that"will never quit working." that drives many to buy so many lights. It's a hobby/addiction. I have 50 or so lights that I hope will never stop working. I buy them for the different outputs, color rendition, run time, battery size, color of anodizing, what they're made of(brass, SS, Ti), size or UI , AND durability. But I can't really say that I've bought my next light because I thought the one I bought before it wasn't durable enough. I just can't stop buying new lights because they're out there.:help::help:
 
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127.0.0.1

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no kidding. 2 years lost inside a pellet stove roasting a pd30...owner gave me the dead light
took out the cooked batteries, cleaned up the contacts, works great

I hurled it with all my might on the pavement once...scuffed it but didn't hurt it.

fenix = hardcore
 

SimulatedZero

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no kidding. 2 years lost inside a pellet stove roasting a pd30...owner gave me the dead light
took out the cooked batteries, cleaned up the contacts, works great

I hurled it with all my might on the pavement once...scuffed it but didn't hurt it.

fenix = hardcore

Damn :eek:, that's pretty impressive. Makes me wonder just how tough my TK15 is... The one thing that gets me about the E11 is the fact that I'm 90% sure it flooded a little bit, if not completely. After I pulled it out of the dryer there was some condensation on the inside. I suppose that could be all it was, condensation, but I feel like some water got past the O-ring. Wouldn't that make it short out, though?
thinking.gif


And LGT, this is very true. For most of us it is an addiction. I mean, I have all the light I need but I keep ending up with more flashlights in the mail. But, I do hear a bit about how tough a light is. That and reliability seem to be pretty big deciding factors. But I think for the majority of posts it's nothing more than picking up their next favorite light.
 

127.0.0.1

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Damn :eek:, that's pretty impressive. Makes me wonder just how tough my TK15 is... The one thing that gets me about the E11 is the fact that I'm 90% sure it flooded a little bit, if not completely. After I pulled it out of the dryer there was some condensation on the inside. I suppose that could be all it was, condensation, but I feel like some water got past the O-ring. Wouldn't that make it short out, though?
thinking.gif


And LGT, this is very true. For most of us it is an addiction. I mean, I have all the light I need but I keep ending up with more flashlights in the mail. But, I do hear a bit about how tough a light is. That and reliability seem to be pretty big deciding factors. But I think for the majority of posts it's nothing more than picking up their next favorite light.

pure water doesn't conduct electricity
the water is likely 'clean' enough that the mild DC current in the light can't get
through that water in great amounts...and doesn't affect operation
more likely to corrode than short

throw salt water in that light it will short out
 

SimulatedZero

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Ah, fair enough. Somewhere in the back of my mind I remembered that water is both dielectric and diamagnetic. I don't why I didn't apply that here.

I wonder if JetBeam's budget series of lights would be as tough? For the most part they are the same basic style. Simple two mode twisty with a forward tail switch. Not much to really get wrong there.
 

Racer

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I wonder if JetBeam's budget series of lights would be as tough? For the most part they are the same basic style. Simple two mode twisty with a forward tail switch. Not much to really get wrong there.

I recently repossessed the BA10 I gave my dad because I found it in a box. He still preferred the cheap DX lights I had been giving him.

Not me, I missed that light. It hasn't left my side since I figured out how to drain the air out of it (like my Neutron) so the switch isn't so squishy. It just seems simple and bullet-proof. I even tried a 14500 in it and unlike its more expensive brother, it has no change in functionality. This time I don't think I am going to part with it.
 

Illum

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There are several reviews on amazon with users buying E05s and after awhile they just "conk out" for no reason, then resulting in bad reviews. Yet from the building standpoint of the light other than a reverse polarity I don't see how they can suddenly "conk out"
 

SimulatedZero

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That's interesting... I wonder if they have done something to the light that they weren't supposed to do. I love how one guy listed the "complicated circuitry" as a flaw, lol. Seems weird though, has anybody else had any problems with there E05?
 

127.0.0.1

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There are several reviews on amazon with users buying E05s and after awhile they just "conk out" for no reason, then resulting in bad reviews. Yet from the building standpoint of the light other than a reverse polarity I don't see how they can suddenly "conk out"

probably those who do not realize twisties do need the slightest amount of periodic maintenance on the contacts
 

bstrickler

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There are several reviews on amazon with users buying E05s and after awhile they just "conk out" for no reason, then resulting in bad reviews. Yet from the building standpoint of the light other than a reverse polarity I don't see how they can suddenly "conk out"


I have a good idea why they conk out... I bought one from someone who had theirs die (looks like it was keychain carried), and it happened to be that the inductor broke. Looks like Fenix needs a better quality inductor, or just need to pot their E05's.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/Bstrickler/DSC07525.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/Bstrickler/DSC07526.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/Bstrickler/DSC07527.jpg

Lighting provided by my Neutral XM-L modded U2 :)

~Brian
 

127.0.0.1

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I have a good idea why they conk out... I bought one from someone who had theirs die (looks like it was keychain carried), and it happened to be that the inductor broke. Looks like Fenix needs a better quality inductor, or just need to pot their E05's.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/Bstrickler/DSC07525.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/Bstrickler/DSC07526.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/Bstrickler/DSC07527.jpg

Lighting provided by my Neutral XM-L modded U2 :)

~Brian

yeah if they just switch from ketchup to epoxy they'd have a winnar !

lolz
 

SimulatedZero

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Well, that's rather troubling. I mean, how did that guy get ketchup all the way in there?
Being serious though, I wonder how many other lights use a setup similar enough to warrant worry? Apparently E01's are fine, I heard a lot of good things about them here on CPF.
 

Illum

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I have a good idea why they conk out... I bought one from someone who had theirs die (looks like it was keychain carried), and it happened to be that the inductor broke. Looks like Fenix needs a better quality inductor, or just need to pot their E05's.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/Bstrickler/DSC07525.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/Bstrickler/DSC07526.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/Bstrickler/DSC07527.jpg

Lighting provided by my Neutral XM-L modded U2 :)

~Brian
i
nteresting... when you took it apart did you notice if the LED can be swapped with another 10mm board? or is it way more complicated than that :grin2:
 

bstrickler

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Well, that's rather troubling. I mean, how did that guy get ketchup all the way in there?
Being serious though, I wonder how many other lights use a setup similar enough to warrant worry? Apparently E01's are fine, I heard a lot of good things about them here on CPF.

E01's will handle a nuke being dropped on top of em!

i
nteresting... when you took it apart did you notice if the LED can be swapped with another 10mm board? or is it way more complicated than that :grin2:


As long as it's XP-E/XP-G size, yes. You may have to cut the legs off the optic support, though. No big deal.

You will want a heat gun, and careful work. I didn't bother being careful with mine, because it was trashed. Leather on vise jaws, and something soft on the thin walled threaded area. It is VERY easy to damage the head, because of the thin walls on the base part (the top is fine).

If you can get a thin piece of leather, I'm sure you can unscrew it by hand after heating it with a heatgun.

I would get some kind of potting compound in there, though. Do what you can to keep the inductor from moving.


Well, that's rather troubling. I mean, how did that guy get ketchup all the way in there?
Being serious though, I wonder how many other lights use a setup similar enough to warrant worry? Apparently E01's are fine, I heard a lot of good things about them here on CPF.


Pretty much any small flashlight that's probably going to be keychain carried, or abused that has fragile components that stick up like that. My bet is that the inductors have a tower that's too thin, and isn't designed for sharp impacts. A couple dabs of potting compound would have eliminated that problem. They didn't even have to pot it like an E01.
 
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SimulatedZero

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Forgive my lack of knowledge here, but, I gather that the inductors are held on the board by a spike going through it call a tower. And that the spike (tower) wasn't strong enough to support the rapid acceleration that the inductor is subjected to while being banged around. And that potting is a form of glue that would help spread out the force of the acceleration and stabilize the inductor better. I know, I could've have looked it all up on wikipedia but I figured I could get a better picture of its application here from you guys.

Going off of this I am going to say the E11 is similar set up only with a more robust circuit design?

E01's will handle a nuke being dropped on top of em!
I may have to get a few of these. I mean, anything that is nuke proof is just about right for being me proof.
 

bstrickler

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Forgive my lack of knowledge here, but, I gather that the inductors are held on the board by a spike going through it call a tower. And that the spike (tower) wasn't strong enough to support the rapid acceleration that the inductor is subjected to while being banged around. And that potting is a form of glue that would help spread out the force of the acceleration and stabilize the inductor better. I know, I could've have looked it all up on wikipedia but I figured I could get a better picture of its application here from you guys.

Going off of this I am going to say the E11 is similar set up only with a more robust circuit design?


I may have to get a few of these. I mean, anything that is nuke proof is just about right for being me proof.

Hopefully the E11's are of better design, or have some potting compound.

Well, I "accidentally" had my E01 run over by a 45,000+ pound plane (I work for an airline, so I decided to sneak it behind one of the tires when they were pushing it out of the hangar). I don't know if anyone can beat that in terms of abuse testing, other than firing it out of a cannon or gun.

The inductors the E05 use are more of a dog-bone shape, like this: http://img.deusm.com/designnews/287/287525-Bobbin_Wound_Surface_Mount_Inductors.jpg

It has a ferrite (iron) core running through the center, which is very fragile. My bet is that the rapid acceleration/deceleration imparts too much energy on it over time, causing microfractures to form in the spire, and merge together until finally, *SNAP*, the spire snaps off, ripping off one of the leads.

The optimal type to use in a high side-load environment like that would be one of these:
http://image.tradevv.com/2009/04/25...d-inductors-tdk-whole-product-distributor.jpg
or one of these:
http://www.supplierlist.com/upload/inductor/prod/67017_high_frequency_signal_line.jpg

Think of it like a Ford Explorer going 45mph around a 90 degree bend, versus a Lamborghini doing the same thing. The Explorer will flip, while the Lambo will stay on all four wheels.

Potting compound is like glue. It keeps things from moving that you don't want to move. The flip side is that it makes it difficult to replace parts that fail, though.

~Brian
 
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