Why do people like and wait for the neutral white lights?

cooldays · Jun 13, 2012

If this is a repeat question I apologize in advance. Why do you like the cool white/neutral white lights better? They seem be not as bright but they are still very popular. I don't own one yet and i see the new zebralight AA light is almost out. What is the advantage and why should i wait or not wait?

I use my lights mostly for night hiking and camping.

thanks!

cooldays

rdrfronty · Jun 13, 2012

The tint is really personal preference. The neutral and warm colors come closer to natural light and many people prefer that. It does tend to come at a slight cost in lumens. I personally like cool colors much more. That's why some companies give you a choice--that way they can make everybody happy. Just go with the tint YOU prefer.

qwertyydude · Jun 13, 2012

I think for night hiking and camping you might want neutral lights more. They tend to cast more natural looking light which makes everything look better with better color contrast. And you might even like a warm white led for times around the campfire since it won't strain your eyes as much. Blue light is the most strenuous on the eyes at night, hence many lights designed to preserve night vision are red.

I suggest getting a Solarforce L2 or L2P and a cool, neutral and warm white/high CRI drop in. Experiment with them and you'll find which one you truly prefer, plus your tastes may change over time. Many people swear by throwy lights but find themselves eventually moving toward flood. Same goes to cool white to neutral, although I still don't like the overly warm warm white led's. Neutral is my preference since it's most like daylight.

tickled · Jun 13, 2012

cooldays said:
If this is a repeat question I apologize in advance. Why do you like the cool white/neutral white lights better? They seem be not as bright but they are still very popular. I don't own one yet and i see the new zebralight AA light is almost out. What is the advantage and why should i wait or not wait? I use my lights mostly for night hiking and camping. thanks! cooldays

Personal preference. I'm personally not a fan of sickly yellow (a lot of lights marketed as "neutral" are in fact yellow and not really neutral) or angry blue. One day we will have cheap high output 5500K 95+ CRI LED lights and we won't need to have this discussion anymore lol.

Blindasabat · Jun 13, 2012

It is not just preference. Neutral and warm tints render a lot of colors much better than cool tints. Cool tints are blue or purple dominated, while neutral are red, yellow, and green dominated, but also have better color balance overall. So the outdoors, or scenes that have red, brown, green, tan, off-whites, grey, look more natural and less flat with more depth. I find that neutral is most pleasing, but that is because I find it by far the most useful. It is usually only one flux bin lower than cool tints, so you won't even notice the slight reduction in lumens. Lumens have to increase by about double to look like anything more than a slight increase to the human eye. And depth perception is dramatically increased with neutral and warm over cool. More rods and cones are used when you have more colors in your light source. I find hiking over rough or even flat terrain at night far easier with neutral tint. You can do it well with cool tints, but you need far, far more lumens (like triple) to get the same perception of color and depth. So in that respect, neutral is far more efficient than cool tints of even several flux bins higher.

TyJo · Jun 13, 2012

Blindasabat said:
It is not just preference. Neutral and warm tints render a lot of colors much better than cool tints. Cool tints are blue or purple dominated, while neutral are red, yellow, and green dominated, but also have better color balance overall. So the outdoors, or scenes that have red, brown, green, tan, off-whites, grey, look more natural and less flat with more depth. I find that neutral is most pleasing, but that is because I find it by far the most useful. It is usually only one flux bin lower than cool tints, so you won't even notice the slight reduction in lumens. Lumens have to increase by about double to look like anything more than a slight increase to the human eye. And depth perception is dramatically increased with neutral and warm over cool. More rods and cones are used when you have more colors in your light source. I find hiking over rough or even flat terrain at night far easier with neutral tint. You can do it well with cool tints, but you need far, far more lumens (like triple) to get the same perception of color and depth. So in that respect, neutral is far more efficient than cool tints of even several flux bins higher.

Well said and I agree.

I'd like to add that there are emitters out there that give the daylight color temperature (~5000K) and high color rendering. Color temperature (K #) and CRI (color rendering index) are different, but high CRI emitters have traditionally had a lower color temperatures, so they are a more yellowish color, like an incandescent light bulb. Some people like this lower color temperature, while others like a nice high cool white color temperature. I prefer the high CRI lights and lower color temps. There are lights/emitters being made that give higher color temperatures, but also provide good CRIs (Zebralight H502d for example). I'm anxiously waiting for my H502d to see how I like the 5000K high CRI.

roadkill1109 · Jun 14, 2012

I'm a throw addict, so only Cool Whites for me!

I have tried a neutral tint thrower...not really as good in throwing. Makes my light look like its low on battery. Haha.

Lou Minescence · Jun 14, 2012

If I am looking for throw, ice cold is the way to go. I like cold tints for viewing anything past 75 yards.
Any closer tasks I have found neutral tints are better.
Cold tints up close are too reflective and neutral or warm tints at a distance past 100 yards just leave me wanting a cool tint light.
The only way to know if it is right for you is to try it. I prefer the XML emitters over the XPG ones so the neutral and warm tint lights appear brighter because of the larger hotspot the XML produces. 😉

TEEJ · Jun 14, 2012

I just want to correct the common misconception that lumen output has to double before a light is perceptively brighter to the eye...that dogma was established back when the total lumemn out puts were extremely low by modern standards, by companies with a vested interest in their own low lumen output lights being able to compete.

In real life, tests have shown that a 10-15% increase is perceptible to the eye on an intermittent view, and even less increase is required if ramping is involved. So, there's no need to have double the lumens to perceive a difference. That dogma can be let go.

It still means that a 10% reduction in lumen output for a tint shift is not a big deal, especially if the QUALITY of the light compensates for the loss in lumens, by increasing what you can SEE, etc.

Depending on your use though, you might see more with the higher output, or, more with a more appropriate tint.

Also - Tint is not CRI, albeit it can be related in some cases.

MichaelW · Jun 14, 2012

See the Kruithof Curve
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruithof_curve
With a flashlight, you can not match the intensity of the sun. [and the overhead distribution] So for most uses a cool-white is blue.
I like 4000-4500K

DHart · Jun 14, 2012

For me... with indoor use, the emitter brightness levels we have attained today have exceeded utility, so the quality of the tint and beam are where it's at and neutral tints have the best, most natural look to me. I won't buy anything but neutral tint/high CRI for lights predominantly used indoors.

As for outdoor use, with near to mid field illumination... same thing applies for me; I have all the brightness I desire with neutral tint X-ML emitters. Natural subjects like trees, dirt, foliage, etc. look most natural with neutral tint emitters.

For long distance throw... I'm OK with cool white, but 95% of my flashlight usage is indoors and outdoors at near to mid ranges, so having a couple of throwers is all I need.

Generally speaking, most cool/cold tint emitter lights look unnatural, unattractive, and very harsh to me, with all but extremely distant subjects. Having far more than "enough" very-satisfying lights with neutral emitters at present, waiting for new models to be released with neutral/high CRI emitters is no big deal at all.

jcw122 · Jun 14, 2012

I like warm lights better because I don't like the fact that cool lights have such a visible beam. If I can see the beam, that means light from my light (lol) is being wasted on illuminating particles in the air and not the target. I also like seeing colors being rendered more naturally.

PerttiK · Jun 14, 2012

I like neutral emitters because they're usually more carefully selected for tint.
Hate to get otherways fine light but loose the tint lottery and get an angry blue or violet emitter, even some green I can tolerate, if it's not over the top.

LEDAdd1ct · Jun 14, 2012

jcw122 said:
I like warm lights better because I don't like the fact that cool lights have such a visible beam. If I can see the beam, that means light from my light (lol) is being wasted on illuminating particles in the air and not the target.

Very well said. I think about this a lot, though not in those exact words. But I believe that is it. If the light is bouncing off particles in the air, it's not showing what you want, or at least, it is very distracting. Neutral may not have as much glamor and sparkle, but it "gets" to the object you want to see cleanly without getting bounced around first.

Ezeriel · Jun 14, 2012

I find that using a cool white led can really wreck my night vision, and neutrals are just gentler on my eyes.

It's hard enough to stay awake for a 12 hour night shift, I don't need a headache to go with it.

Harry999 · Jun 14, 2012

TyJo said:
Well said and I agree.

I'd like to add that there are emitters out there that give the daylight color temperature (~5000K) and high color rendering. Color temperature (K #) and CRI (color rendering index) are different, but high CRI emitters have traditionally had a lower color temperatures, so they are a more yellowish color, like an incandescent light bulb. Some people like this lower color temperature, while others like a nice high cool white color temperature. I prefer the high CRI lights and lower color temps. There are lights/emitters being made that give higher color temperatures, but also provide good CRIs (Zebralight H502d for example). I'm anxiously waiting for my H502d to see how I like the 5000K high CRI.

Tyjo,

I look forward to your feedback on the H502d. I am currently considering getting one or two...

Echo63 · Jun 14, 2012

Ezeriel said:
I find that using a cool white led can really wreck my night vision, and neutrals are just gentler on my eyes.

It's hard enough to stay awake for a 12 hour night shift, I don't need a headache to go with it.

I noticed that too
i recently got a very warm led dropin (compared to an incan P60 it looks warmer and pinker - almost like a rose coloured filter) that i love - its pretty bright - 150ish lumens - and throws pretty well in the dark

It doesnt hurt my eyes at night so much so that i pick it up instead of one of my dim cool white leds (novatac or v10r on low)
The colour rendition is pretty good too - not perfect, or as good as an incan - but good none the less

My favorite tint is neutral though - i love the 4500k of my moddoo dropin - a perfect colour - no cyan/magenta shift just a nice creamy white light

DHart · Jun 14, 2012

Echo63 said:
My favorite tint is neutral though - a perfect colour - just a nice creamy white light

Man, I sure do love that in a flashlight... just a nice, neutral, creamy light. :party:

Echo63 · Jun 15, 2012

DHart said:
Man, I sure do love that in a flashlight... just a nice, neutral, creamy light.

Even better when its a 1000 lumen flood that just illuminates everything in front of you, that dropin in the bored 9P is my perfect light - 1hr of runtime, nice wall of light, solid host, awesome looking dark greenish/bronze anodize

kaichu dento · Jun 15, 2012

rdrfronty said:
The tint is really personal preference. The neutral and warm colors come closer to natural light and many people prefer that. It does tend to come at a slight cost in lumens. I personally like cool colors much more. That's why some companies give you a choice--that way they can make everybody happy. Just go with the tint YOU prefer.

This is such an excellent and neutral post, allowing that each will have their own preferences, rather than trying to convince him that yours should be his.

As I read through the whole thread there are so many weighing in in such an informative manner, that I do believe I'll just keep reading and enjoying! :popcorn:

Lou Minescence said:
If I am looking for throw, ice cold is the way to go. I like cold tints for viewing anything past 75 yards.
Any closer tasks I have found neutral tints are better.
Cold tints up close are too reflective and neutral or warm tints at a distance past 100 yards just leave me wanting a cool tint light.
The only way to know if it is right for you is to try it. I prefer the XML emitters over the XPG ones so the neutral and warm tint lights appear brighter because of the larger hotspot the XML produces. 

This has really got my curiosity now and I'm going to have to try some throw situations to see if I too feel that cool is better for my purposes when it comes to longer distances. I doubt that I'll agree, but I'm willing to let my eyes decide. :huh:

Why do people like and wait for the neutral white lights?

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