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Thread: Secret Aircraft

  1. #541
    *Flashaholic* StarHalo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Secret Aircraft

    The BAE MAGMA, a plane without moving control surfaces - just replace all the hydraulic valves/cylinders/pulleys with small engine vectoring ducts that similarly alter the airflow over the wing:




  2. #542
    Flashaholic* id30209's Avatar
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    Default Re: Secret Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by StarHalo View Post
    The BAE MAGMA, a plane without moving control surfaces - just replace all the hydraulic valves/cylinders/pulleys with small engine vectoring ducts that similarly alter the airflow over the wing:



    Now that could be improvement over heavy hydro plumbing. Nice!


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  3. #543
    Flashaholic mightysparrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Secret Aircraft

    ^^ Cool technology! Have you ever seen the Gotha 229 flying wing-type aircraft designed by the Horten brothers for Germany during World War 2? It was a frighteningly good design. It only made it to the prototype stage before the war ended, fortunately for the USA, Great Britain, France, etc. According to William Green, Goering and the upper echelon of the Luftwaffe only became interested in funding development of the design when they found out about the work Northrup was doing in the USA on a flying wing design. The German manufacturers would not have had the ability at that stage of the war to produce a lot of them, but they would have caused a lot of problems for the aircraft opposing them (and prompted the USA to get more P-80's to Europe in a hurry).
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  4. #544
    *Flashaholic* StarHalo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Secret Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by mightysparrow View Post
    ^^ Cool technology! Have you ever seen the Gotha 229 flying wing-type aircraft designed by the Horten brothers for Germany during World War 2? It was a frighteningly good design.
    Both the Northrop and the Ho 229 were technically small scale prototype models for what were to be large bombers; the Nazis approved the Hortens' bomber design (the Ho 16) in early 1945, and were specifically told it needed to be ready in early 1946 to drop a nuclear bomb on New York. Aside from that, the 229 would have had the speed to make it across the English Channel so quickly that despite being completely visible to British radar, they'd be able to strike the RAF before they ever got off the ground, meaning Britain could have been lost the same day the plane was introduced. So the incomplete remains of the Ho 229 are basically an indicator of how close the allies came to losing the war.

    Quote Originally Posted by mightysparrow View Post
    It only made it to the prototype stage before the war ended, fortunately for the USA, Great Britain, France, etc. According to William Green, Goering and the upper echelon of the Luftwaffe only became interested in funding development of the design when they found out about the work Northrup was doing in the USA on a flying wing design.
    As referenced in the previous page in this thread, I had spent some time around the Northrop wing, and was among the last to ever photograph it.

  5. #545
    Flashaholic mightysparrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Secret Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by StarHalo View Post
    Both the Northrop and the Ho 229 were technically small scale prototype models for what were to be large bombers; the Nazis approved the Hortens' bomber design (the Ho 16) in early 1945, and were specifically told it needed to be ready in early 1946 to drop a nuclear bomb on New York. Aside from that, the 229 would have had the speed to make it across the English Channel so quickly that despite being completely visible to British radar, they'd be able to strike the RAF before they ever got off the ground, meaning Britain could have been lost the same day the plane was introduced. So the incomplete remains of the Ho 229 are basically an indicator of how close the allies came to losing the war.



    As referenced in the previous page in this thread, I had spent some time around the Northrop wing, and was among the last to ever photograph it.
    Interesting predictions, but I think itís an exaggeration to say that the Horten bomber would have been able to strike the RAF before they got off the ground, or would have neutralized or knocked Great Britain out of the war the first day it was used. One has to keep in mind that the proposed bomber was a long way off. The fighter was only test-flown up to around 400mph before the testing facilities were overrun. The projected top speed was around 600 mph, if all went according to the designers' hopes. However, as you know, a large jet aircraft at that time that was loaded with bombs and fuel would not have been able to approach its top speed while it was so loaded. The British and the US already had aircraft operational that could have challenged such an aircraft - especially a bomber large enough to carry the enormous amount of jet fuel that would have been necessary to carry the required payload and fly all the way to the US and back again with very inefficient jet engines. And the US and Britain were improving their interceptor and anti-aircraft weapon designs at the same time Germany was working on the Horten aircraft designs.

    With regard to losing the war for the US and Britain, I doubt it. Germany was working on a long range bomber with piston engines to attack the US mainland for the entire war, and they couldnít get it together and in production. The US defenses would have been very formidable against such an attack. The bomb load would have to be very small, and the jet engines would have to be much more reliable, much more efficient, and less prone to fire than the Jumo 004 they had in 1945. The amount of jet fuel needed to get a jet bomber to the US would be enormous and very heavy.

    And donít forget that the US had considered the possibility of using atomic weapons against Germany, even without Germany using one first. If Germany even tried or was preparing to use such a weapon imminently, the US would have retaliated in kind. As you know, by mid-1945, the US already had atomic weapons and was quickly getting adept at making and using them. And, as the Historian Barton Bernstein pointed out, the US had also considered using radioactive waste to poison the German fresh water supplies, among other ideas for hastening the war's conclusion, if deemed necessary. Hitler might have been crazy enough and mean enough to use nuclear weapons out of spite, but he could not hope to win the war with them, even with the Horten-designed aircraft.
    Last edited by mightysparrow; 05-07-2019 at 07:29 PM.
    "However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light." -- Stanley Kubrick

  6. #546
    Flashaholic* orbital's Avatar
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    Default Re: Secret Aircraft

    +

    Sunday evening June 9th, the History Channel is airing a 2hr special on Skunk Works.







    ---^---



  7. #547
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    Default Re: Secret Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by StarHalo View Post
    The BAE MAGMA, a plane without moving control surfaces - just replace all the hydraulic valves/cylinders/pulleys with small engine vectoring ducts that similarly alter the airflow over the wing:



    If you have nothing in common with aviation this design might look revolutionary to some extent, but... When engine thrust is not available what will happen to the plane? Any stupid engine failure will turn this construction into a brash on the ground. And this is having in mind that this kind of flying wing scheme features very high aerodynamic quality (it glides very well).
    Last edited by vadimax; 06-01-2019 at 01:27 PM.

  8. #548
    Flashaholic mightysparrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Secret Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by orbital View Post
    +

    Sunday evening June 9th, the History Channel is airing a 2hr special on Skunk Works.







    ---^---


    A little history programming on the history channel? Thank you for the tip - I have not been checking their schedule lately, given as they are to fill their time slots with programs about "mermaids," ancient alien visits, and similar stuff.
    "However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light." -- Stanley Kubrick

  9. #549
    Flashaholic mightysparrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Secret Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by vadimax View Post
    If you have nothing in common with aviation this design might look revolutionary to some extent, but... When engine thrust is not available what will happen to the plane? Any stupid engine failure will turn this construction into a brash on the ground. And this is having in mind that this kind of flying wing scheme features very high aerodynamic quality (it glides very well).
    Not a problem. Each aircraft is supplied with a gerbil, a small wheel, and rubber bands, in case the main engine fails.
    "However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light." -- Stanley Kubrick

  10. #550
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    Default Re: Secret Aircraft

    Imaging satellite company: "Check out our image of the Iranian launch site."
    Larger imaging satellite company: "Our image of the Iranian launch site has significantly higher resolution."
    US Government: "You call that high res.."


  11. #551
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    Default Re: Secret Aircraft

    Quote Originally Posted by StarHalo View Post
    Imaging satellite company: "Check out our image of the Iranian launch site."
    Larger imaging satellite company: "Our image of the Iranian launch site has significantly higher resolution."
    US Government: "You call that high res.."
    Oh man...LOL

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