Defensive Question

For defensive purposes, what is the minimum Lumen Rating to effectively incapacitate a Perpetrator of Criminal Intent? I know it will depend on individual tolerances I suppose but is there not a baseline set?

SF claims it to be around 60 lumens
bernhard

about 65 lumens, I flinch when i look at the light from a kl4.

Geoff

How do you define "incapacitate?" I wouldn't trust any light to incapacitate anybody. I think the whole concept is somewhat overblown; not to say it will not work, but isn't as effective as you're led to believe.

--dan

[ QUOTE ]
dano said:
How do you define "incapacitate?" I wouldn't trust any light to incapacitate anybody. I think the whole concept is somewhat overblown; not to say it will not work, but isn't as effective as you're led to believe.

--dan

[/ QUOTE ] I agree. It's hype, a flashlight alone is not something to trust your life with.

[ QUOTE ]
dano said:
How do you define "incapacitate?" I wouldn't trust any light to incapacitate anybody. I think the whole concept is somewhat overblown; not to say it will not work, but isn't as effective as you're led to believe.

--dan

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right but I think it gives someone a bit of an edge though, it is better than nothing. I should have worded my topic a little more carefully. If you got the TigerLight equipped to handle the pepper spray you really have an edge. Years ago when I was a helluva a lot younger I was on a receiving end of a Patrol Officer's Stinger. I got stopped for a minor traffic violation and his light beamed straight into my eyes and was at best uncomfortably very annoying.

[ QUOTE ]
dano said:
How do you define "incapacitate?" I wouldn't trust any light to incapacitate anybody. I think the whole concept is somewhat overblown; not to say it will not work, but isn't as effective as you're led to believe.

--dan

[/ QUOTE ]

On a lighter side, I think the light (i.e. Light sabre) used by Luke in Star Wars is more then enough to "incapacitate" even the toughest guy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

A flashlight can illuminate a target for you and with luck it can make it a little more difficult for him to aim at you, but the only way you can incapacitate an attacker with a flashlight is to hit him with it.

I have posted a good bit on the tactical forums on exactly how to go about hitting him, but that's off topic here...

-Cougar :{)

[ QUOTE ]
...the only way you can incapacitate an attacker with a flashlight is to hit him with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

To quote my review of the M3:

"In low-light situations [a high powered flashlight] has the output potential to momentarily disrupt a subject's vision long enough to give the advantage to the light's user, putting the subject on the defensive and making it difficult for them to identify a clear target."

[ QUOTE ]
Quickbeam said:
[ QUOTE ]
...the only way you can incapacitate an attacker with a flashlight is to hit him with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

To quote my review of the M3:

"In low-light situations [a high powered flashlight] has the output potential to momentarily disrupt a subject's vision long enough to give the advantage to the light's user, putting the subject on the defensive and making it difficult for them to identify a clear target."

[/ QUOTE ]

What QuickBeam said, couldn't have said it any better!

[ QUOTE ]
Dukester said:
For defensive purposes, what is the minimum Lumen Rating to effectively incapacitate a Perpetrator of Criminal Intent? I know it will depend on individual tolerances I suppose but is there not a baseline set?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would substitute "minimum lumen rating" with "minimum weight rating". A pound or two outta due (in trained hands). Seriously I would never expect to incapacitate anyone with a light. And for target identification I would want an extremely bright light... no puny 65 lumens. The more the better!

I use a flashlight evey night . I have the Pila GL4R as my primary "on duty" light. I use it during traffic stops all the time. Usually I place it under my arm so I can write the final information on a traffic ticket. The light is 130 lumens with the Li-Ion batteries. Usually I manuever myself into a position that has the light pointed at the violators face. In several dozen stops it has always made the driver of the vehicle squint and turn away. This is an added measure of safety, would I consider a flashlight a defensive tool. NO, it is however an effective tool to use so that you can disorient somone. The recovery time is very fast for the perpetrator so it really isn't a viable source for true force.

i was thinking it would be more of lux thing/rating concentrated on the persons eyes? either way im sure my Brinkman LX cyan would work pretty good for defensive purposes. It uses 30mm optic, while messing around with it at my desk today i noticed that even with all the lights on around me at my desk and overhead that when i shine my brinkmann at a white piece of paper in front of me and look at it, im seeing hazy for the the next 20-30 seconds /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[ QUOTE ]
4x4Dragon said:
...while messing around with it at my desk today i noticed that even with all the lights on around me at my desk and overhead that when i shine my brinkmann at a white piece of paper in front of me and look at it, im seeing hazy for the the next 20-30 seconds /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm... do you ever notice any of your coworkers giving you odd looks? Can't imagine why they would /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Byron Walter said:
[ QUOTE ]
4x4Dragon said:
...while messing around with it at my desk today i noticed that even with all the lights on around me at my desk and overhead that when i shine my brinkmann at a white piece of paper in front of me and look at it, im seeing hazy for the the next 20-30 seconds /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm... do you ever notice any of your coworkers giving you odd looks? Can't imagine why they would /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, i get picked on very often about my "flashlight fetish"(as they like to call it)

actually today, one of them came over just after i had flashed the brinkmann at a piece of paper and asked where the "green glow" was coming from? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I get that all the time...

Working in a hospital the nurses think I have "issues" 'cause I carry lights, LOL.

I figure if one of the patients gets nuts the M3 would be enough to stun them enough for me to get out of the situation. Let's just say I feel a lot safer with it.

Would 65 lumens out of an LED be more effective than 65 lumens out of an incan? Seems like LEDs give a longer lasting disorienting effect.

[ QUOTE ]
MTFD17 said:
Would 65 lumens out of an LED be more effective than 65 lumens out of an incan? Seems like LEDs give a longer lasting disorienting effect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are correct on that, AND an LED comes on and shuts off more immediately than an incan too.

[ QUOTE ]
Beretta1526 said:

I think you are correct on that, AND an LED comes on and shuts off more immediately than an incan too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Less time for the pupil to react to the light?