FourSevens        
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 171

Thread: Flashlight Explosion

  1. #61

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Wow, that is crazy. I'm new to this, and just ordered a Klarus XT11, and planned to use 2x CR123 until I get myself an 18650. Now I'm a little leery of using the CR123 batteries, and instead just wait for a 18650 instead. I guess if I make sure they are matched though, the risk is small.

    I had no clue lithium batteries released HF when they exploded. Is this related to primary lithium batteries, or rechargeable as well? If rechargeable, does it apply to both lithium-ion and lithium-polymer, or just one of them? I ask because I have used lithium polymer batteries in an RC heli and RC airplanes in the past, and while the RC forums are full of stories of people burning there houses down do to not having the battery in a fireproof bag while charging, not once did I ever see a mention of HF, and I would not have thought of that on my own. I haven't had time to do much with RC recently, but over winter break plan on building a quadcopter, who's power source is a 3 cell, 3300 mAh LiPo pack, and I bought a 3 cell, 2650 mAh LiPo pack for my transmitter. I have fireproof bags to charge them in, but again, if something had happened and they exploded, I would not have thought of HF.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Scary stuff!

    I and most folks I know use ammo cans inside other metal containers, with the innovative plan of "throw it outside quick" if things get ugly.

    Where do you get fireproof bags?

  3. #63
    Silver Moderator
    SilverFox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Bellingham WA
    Posts
    12,421

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Hello Jseyfert3,

    Welcome to CPF.

    The HF is a problem with primary lithium cells. Rechargeable Li-Ion and Li-Po cells do not have this concern.

    Tom
    Behind every Great man there's always a woman rolling her eyes...

    Most batteries don't die - they are tortured to near death, then murdered...

  4. #64

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    I hope you're doing ok. If it were me, at this point, I'd take legal action against the battery company.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    I am an industrial hygienist, chemical engineer, and hazmat technician. Do not attempt to clean this kind of incident up yourself. Most fire departments and rescue squads now have hazmat trained responders with the right equipment. HF is nothing to mess with as you can see from the unfortunate history here. Call 911 and tell them you had a Lithium Ion Battery explosion so the department comes prepared. Leave the room and clear the house. If it starts a fire that's why you have insurance. I am really going to have to reconsider my Quark 123 squared and Turbo use.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    A comment on the suggestion to use an acid mist respirator for this type of incident. I am trained in respirator application and use. Though the 3M Respirator Guide does suggest you could use this type of respirator, please use it only for escape. The nose mouth respirator is only rated for an exposure level 10 times the Occupational Exposure Level. That means for HF you are good only for 10 ppm if you have the HF respirator- not the AG acid gas one. For sulpher compounds which are also possible- see the MSDS info in the next topic in this subindex, the AG respirator will only protect in 5 ppm of H2S. The amount of injury in this incident indicates that the exposures were much higher than this- its very hard to predict unless someone has actually done the testing and analysis. The best advice, leave with your family and pets and call 911 from outside.

    BTW- I am very grateful for the information contained in the forum. Like many of our activities there are hazards that must be controlled and now I know what to do.

  7. #67
    Flashaholic ToyTank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Your Momma's house...
    Posts
    306

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    I hope you are healing well. Your experience has made me realize how lucky I have been. I hope your able to get a few good lights this year-Happy Holidays!

  8. #68

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    This thread has been extremely informative and valuable to me. JNieporte, thank you so much for continuing to share your painful experience with me. My best wishes towards a speedier recovery. PM me your address. I'd like to send you one of my budget shelf queens for you to play with. It's a AA, btw!

    BTW, can someone explain what might have happened to cause this? Is it unbalanced CR123s? Does the driver play a contributing role? What can I do to avoid this? Let me list what I've learned so far:
    1. Only install balanced cells in a two cell flashlight.
    2. Check cell voltages before loading.
    3. Check cell voltages after unusual discharge/temperature.
    4. Bias against primary Lithium CR123. But is Li-ion any better? I use LiFePO4 instead of primary Lithium whenever I can.
    5. Charge in a bag to minimize the risk of burning the house down.
    6. Charging in a bag will not eliminate toxic fumes. Throw the bag out the window and leave the house.
    Last edited by lensman; 12-24-2012 at 12:57 PM. Reason: added my lessons

  9. #69

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    With primary lithiums, the voltages don't tell the whole story. You'll need something like a ZTS tester that tests the batteries under load.
    Current EDC: Eagletac D25C Clicky, Foursevens Mini-ML XP-G2. The rest of the collection: Fenix E15, Fenix LD20, Fenix TK41. Nitecore MT2A, Foursevens Quark Tactical QTA. EagleTac T20C2 Mark II, XM-L Neutral White, EagleTac SX25L3, ArmyTek Viking Pro . Oh - and a whole bunch of Eneloops, CR123As and 18650s.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    I knew about the dangers of exploding lithium cells from my r/c racing career but I had never heard of the hf gas. Scary stuff, I wish you the best in your recovery. I was going to give Mt old light to my moms boyfriend but after reading this ill just get him a AA light instead and keep the risk my own. On another note all rechargeable batteries, including nicd/nimh can explode. Ive seen nimh cells shoot off like a shogun shell exploding at the racetrack while charging. Always monitor batteries, even if its not lithium doesn't mean your home free safe.

  11. #71
    Flashaholic ToyTank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Your Momma's house...
    Posts
    306

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by lensman View Post
    BTW, can someone explain what might have happened to cause this? Is it unbalanced CR123s? Does the driver play a contributing role? What can I do to avoid this? Let me list what I've learned so far:


    Silverfox does an excellent analysis in this post on the first page

    I have had the privilege of reading some of silverfox's threads on this forum, and anyone reading this should take at look at it.

    I for one am done with multiple cells except with NIMH and Lifepo4. Lithium phosphate would be a hard habit to break. Quick count 7 lifepo4 packs 4S-8S-12S not counting the small ones for lights and RC....
    Last edited by ToyTank; 12-28-2012 at 10:51 PM.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    If my light gets real hot and I see other signs I am chucking it (away from people) and calling for help. This was my plan before I saw this article, but after seeing all of this I have renewed respect for these high power lights and cells. I don't use stacked 123's I use an AW 17650 which makes things not 100% safe but better than before. It eliminates one cell getting hot by the emitter and having the second push current. If a light can't take a one piece Li I'm out... I hope you can get your condition at least stabilized soon.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    JNieporte, I hope you are exploring your legal options, buddy. I know some lawyers who'd love this case.
    I own 2x Fenix TK40, 4x Fenix LD20, 4x Fenix LD01, 1x Fenix E01, IlluminaTi XP-G R5 (EDC), 2x iTP A3 EOS Stainless

  14. #74

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    ^^
    And this is what is wrong with the world today. Ambulance chasers trying to make a dime off of someone else's misfortune.
    Last edited by Captain Spaulding; 03-07-2013 at 08:52 AM.
    The Captains lights

    Yeah, I know, Pics are jacked up+

  15. #75

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Spaulding View Post
    ^^
    And this is what is wrong with the world today. Ambulance chasers trying to make a dime off of someone else's misfortune.
    Used to feel the same way. But when it's a situation where an individual has mounting hospital bills, is getting harassed by creditors and collection companies, perhaps ends up having to sell his car and even his house . . . Plus, due to very real health issues, can't even get a 2nd job to pay off those mounting bills; it paints a very different picture compared to someone who went through a minor inconvenience, suffered no long lasting issues, and is simply grabbing a sleazy attorney to get a windfall of cash based solely on greed.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  16. #76
    Flashaholic* xevious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hoboken, NJ
    Posts
    1,021

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    JNieporte, I'm stunned to read this thread and so sorry for what has happened to you. I very much appreciate your sharing this experience. And here I thought all of the dangers were in the rechargeable cell arena. But here you have just your everyday CR123 primary cells bought on good faith, and they EXPLODE?

    Honestly, Titanium Innovations is at fault here. Something was seriously wrong with that battery (I'm assuming the damage done from the 1st cell caused the 2nd one to explode). Not only do they need to know about such an incident, with sufficient documentation and photographic evidence so that they understand that their product was really at fault here, but perhaps compensate you for your medical expenses. As Monocrom pointed out, there are plenty of people who file frivolous and misleading claims, but ones like this are certainly quite valid. THIS is what lawyers are really meant for.


    Well, I don't think I'll be completely deterred from using CR123/RCR123 cells but I will certainly make an effort to invest in high quality ones. It's financially attractive to buy budget batteries, but when things go wrong like this it's apparent how the bargain is not worth the risk. Yikes...
    Last edited by xevious; 03-19-2013 at 01:51 PM.
    Light Brands in Rotation: FW3A, Zebralight, Jetbeam, Lumintop, RovyVon, Olight, Astrolux, Nitecore, NovaTac

  17. #77

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    This is a horrible story and I hope the OP gets well soon.
    My Fenix pd32 UE came with 2 CR 123 primaries. I'll damned if they ever go in that flashlight. As a matter of fact I'm throwing them away today brand new or not.
    I am fairly new to all this and I am becoming more convinced that multiple cell hi output batteries configurations are asking for trouble and just not worth the risk.
    I had no idea gas venting from a lithium ion explosion could be so dangerous.

    Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

  18. #78
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    729

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by lightcycle1 View Post
    This is a horrible story and I hope the OP gets well soon.
    My Fenix pd32 UE came with 2 CR 123 primaries. I'll damned if they ever go in that flashlight. As a matter of fact I'm throwing them away today brand new or not.
    What brand are they?
    As far as I know, nobody ever reported an incident involving US- or Japan-made CR123s (like panasonic, surefire, sanyo, energizer) - even though some lights of another era push the batteries insanely (like the Surefire M6 with the high output lamp assembly installed).
    happens

  19. #79

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    They are green and black labeled EdisonBright CR123's. The only thing I've had to date that used CR123's is a small point and shoot camera that used 1 of them.
    I may keep them just for that camera, nothing else. I won't be feeding any high-drain flashlights with them for sure.

    I've heard one too many scare stories about using hi-cap batteries in series. I was reluctant to try an 18650 for the first time, but decided to try anyway and the
    Fenix PD32UE was just too much of a temptation.

    I won't be using or getting any more multiple cell lights in anything other than AA. My Fenix PD32UE now has a single protected Eagletac 3100 18650.
    I'm pretty confident that should be a fairly safe battery.

  20. #80
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    729

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by lightcycle1 View Post
    They are green and black labeled EdisonBright CR123's.
    Never heard of that - probably a good idea to not use them in a multi-cell application.

    Back in 2007 or so I had a 3-cell very-high-powered incan light delivered with free "PW Powerstation" Batteries from a german dealer - a brand that was known to be unsafe and unable to deliver high currents.
    Many online flashlight dealers simply don't seem to be aware that there is a danger.
    happens

  21. #81
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    316

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Remember me? There's not much to update, but I wanted to check in. My health is about where it was last...

    Breathing is labored all the time. I require a maintenance inhaler and Advair daily, and I use a rescue inhaler when necessary (about four times a week). I've been advised that my heart condition (WPW) will necessitate medication. I've filled out the appropriate paperwork for Disability, and the sales of my lights / knives / guns have paid for a lot of my medical bills and medications.

    I'm getting back "into" lights and knives, and am really hoping I'll be able to get some decent ones again soon. I do appreciate all of the kind words and well wishes, and I'll update as I can.

  22. #82

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    JNieporte, sorry for your health issues and loss of your lights and knives

  23. #83
    Silver Moderator
    SilverFox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Bellingham WA
    Posts
    12,421

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Hello JNieporte,

    Good to hear from you. I am totally sorry it isn't spectacular news...

    I was hoping that your body would quickly rebuild itself, but it seems to be taking a long time.

    Positive thoughts and prayers headed your way.

    Tom
    Behind every Great man there's always a woman rolling her eyes...

    Most batteries don't die - they are tortured to near death, then murdered...

  24. #84
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    316

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Live and learn. My mother-in-law bought a bunch of gardening supplies with her Home Depot gift card and gave me the remaining balance ($28) so I'm going to pick up some budget lights. The Defiant lights are re-branded Brinkmanns, so they're good for the price. See, it's not all bad news

  25. #85

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by JNieporte View Post
    Live and learn. My mother-in-law bought a bunch of gardening supplies with her Home Depot gift card and gave me the remaining balance ($28) so I'm going to pick up some budget lights. See, not all bad news
    Good to hear you received a bit of good news.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  26. #86
    Flashaholic* degarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Akron, Ohio
    Posts
    1,981

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    I off to work, but I quickly sped read through.

    I am not getting a few facts clearly, and to the point: were these primary 123s that exploded? If so, what brand. If not, what chemistry, and were they protected?

    Then, do these batteries vent and flame off, while water tight flashlights build up pressure then explode? Is there a design that would allow venting to avoid blowup? And is it drawing the voltage down too low that causes this, or a short causing too fast a current draw?

    Based on direct answers to the above, further questions may arise.



    The lungs repair themselves very quickly. I once accidentally mustard gassed myself with acid and chorine (didn't realize that one was in the pipes before using the next). I lay on the lawn for a about 2 hours, and lungs hurt for a few days (I remember only could breath in shallow breaths for a few days), but no permanent harm. I regularly work with ammonia, bleach, and acids. I would rather have short term lung damage than long term brain damage. So, I go for ammonia based paints/cleaners over solvent, often out of reach of a fresh respirator (as the niosha rating drive prices above the reach, all too often. True protection would be 4 new cartridges a day , per man times 365 (about $6000/year per man). After 4 hours, you start smelling fumes.).
    Last edited by degarb; 04-15-2013 at 06:15 AM.
    Some people are all lumens and no lux, while others are all lux and no lumens. Some just thank God they have neither.-- All of my lights have throw--some pretty darn far, into the garbage.

  27. #87
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    316

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by degarb View Post
    ...I am not getting a few facts clearly, and to the point: were these primary 123s that exploded? If so, what brand. If not, what chemistry, and were they protected?
    From Post #1... " I've been using Titanium Innovations CR123s (from Battery Junction) for a long time and have been very satisfied. I pulled out two CR123s from an unopened pack (Battery Junction ships them four in a sealed pack)..."


    Quote Originally Posted by degarb View Post
    ...Then, do these batteries vent and flame off, while water tight flashlights build up pressure then explode? Is there a design that would allow venting to avoid blowup? And is it drawing the voltage down too low that causes this, or a short causing too fast a current draw?...
    I don't know the answers to any of these questions, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by degarb View Post
    ...The lungs repair themselves very quickly. I once accidentally mustard gassed myself with acid and chorine (didn't realize that one was in the pipes before using the next). I lay on the lawn for a about 2 hours, and lungs hurt for a few days (I remember only could breath in shallow breaths for a few days), but no permanent harm. I regularly work with ammonia, bleach, and acids. I would rather have short term lung damage than long term brain damage. So, I go for ammonia based paints/cleaners over solvent, often out of reach of a fresh respirator (as the niosha rating drive prices above the reach, all too often. True protection would be 4 new cartridges a day , per man times 365 (about $6000/year per man). After 4 hours, you start smelling fumes.).
    I'm glad your lungs are more durable than mine. I've had bronchitis for a long time, and asthma for not-so-long. I've left a pretty thorough documentation of my process, to include diagnoses and medications, in this thread. I know you said you skimmed over it, but the details are there.
    Last edited by JNieporte; 04-15-2013 at 06:54 AM.

  28. #88
    Flashaholic* degarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Akron, Ohio
    Posts
    1,981

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    I am guessing http://www.batteryjunction.com/tpen-tcr123a-.html , which is non rechargeable primary.

    Is there a care regime for these? No circuit protection on these? What chemicals/acids do they have that would do this.

    I don't see that battery junction would, should be responsible. They are not chemists, just resellers. I have no love for Chinese manufacturers, whose routine is to cheat on everything. Unfortunately, you cannot buy anything not made in China. Hopefully, BJ will connect you with the manufacturer, and any safties added to cell to protect others. Ideally, sue the PRC.
    Some people are all lumens and no lux, while others are all lux and no lumens. Some just thank God they have neither.-- All of my lights have throw--some pretty darn far, into the garbage.

  29. #89

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by degarb View Post
    Is there a care regime for these? No circuit protection on these? What chemicals/acids do they have that would do this?
    No offense intended. But your questions are rather surprising for someone who has been a member for over 5 years. You're not aware of the common rules regarding the safe handling / use of CR123 primaries? Rules which, although they greatly reduce the risks involved, do not eliminate them entirely. As can be seen from this thread.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  30. #90
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    316

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by degarb View Post
    ...I don't see that battery junction would, should be responsible. They are not chemists, just resellers. I have no love for Chinese manufacturers, whose routine is to cheat on everything. Unfortunately, you cannot buy anything not made in China. Hopefully, BJ will connect you with the manufacturer, and any safties added to cell to protect others. Ideally, sue the PRC.
    Battery Junction isn't getting sued. I've mentioned before that nobody is getting sued, and that the only action I might pursue is for medical bills. That hasn't happened, as I deem it my fault for not testing the batteries, even though they were still shrink-wrapped from the dealer. I've bought from Battery Junction since this incident, and my comments about them echo the many dozens of positive comments left by CPF members.

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •