Klarus        
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 91 to 120 of 171

Thread: Flashlight Explosion

  1. #91
    Enlightened
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    95

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Thank you for posting your story. I was a few days away from order a Quark X 123-2 with the new XM-L2 emitter. I was going to be using the primaries that came with the light until I had settled on a quality charger for AW cells. My delay was due to not having this light available in Canada. Risks with these high powered cells may be rare but your story has scared me into sticking with regular AA and AAA lights. I think I will go with AA-2 xm-l2 instead. Good luck with the recovery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pvt. Pile View Post
    I was in the market for a 2 x cr123 light till I read this! Not anymore! What a horrible thing to happen to anyone. Merely go downstairs with a flashlight to get something, and come out hospital bound....that's some bad luck right there. Hope you get better soon!
    I will be changing my order now. I have enough risk at work between refrigerant burns, natural gas, carbon monoxide, electric shock and sheet metal. My flashlight shouldn't be on the list.
    Last edited by trailblazer295; 04-19-2013 at 03:43 PM.

  2. #92
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Upper Canada
    Posts
    283

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Sorry to read about the battery explosion and your resulting injury. You say you might take action to recover your medical bills.

    Any assistance available from your job as firefighter.

    Walter

  3. #93
    Flashaholic* degarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Akron, Ohio
    Posts
    1,981

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    No offense intended. But your questions are rather surprising for someone who has been a member for over 5 years. You're not aware of the common rules regarding the safe handling / use of CR123 primaries? Rules which, although they greatly reduce the risks involved, do not eliminate them entirely. As can be seen from this thread.
    I had to research the brand, before determining these were primaries, which I did on cell phone while at work.

    I understand the purpose of AA primaries: super cheap, if you find an off brand aa or aaa at a dollar store; LSD in low drain devices; useful for kid devices were rechareables would be thrown out, due to ignorance; and short term price gain. But, I don't see cheap 123 primaries anywhere in stores, nor see self discharge problems with rechargeable li ions. Now, primary lithiums explode too, albeit they ARE sold in walmart and most brick and mortar stores?

    The thought that you needed to research 123 primary use and care never occured to me. These are consumer cells. On an impulse shopping trip buy, I have only casually purchased one "daylight " two cr123 in series flashlight from biglots (a walmart close out). After the 1 hour of runtime it gave me (probably 1.5 amp), I threw out the 123 primaries it gave me, and got 2 dx.com 123a's. I did test and notice that 3 volts on primary and 3.7 volts on rechargeable; It drew about 300 milliamps with one dummy primary converting the light to a single cell light. So, I only spot use the light as a single 3.7 rechargeabl cell + dummy cell (3.7 volt nominal), when I cannot find a longer running light by my bedside. Even at 3.7 volts, it draws about 700 milliamp, and so still a pretty useless runtime for the whimpy 123a capacity.
    Last edited by degarb; 04-21-2013 at 09:03 AM.

  4. #94
    Flashaholic* degarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Akron, Ohio
    Posts
    1,981

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    I would propose that sellers voluntarily insert care precautions for primary and secondary lituim cells into packaging. They probably already do this.

    The below is something I knew. Though it doesn't explain this incident.

    The wisdom at the moment seems to be:
    - never ever mix cell brands
    - never mix a new cell with a used cell
    - cells that measure similar remaining new capacity, I've conducted many, many tests, and seen no failures- BatteryStation is now utilizing a device called a ZTS tester, in order to sift out new cells that have partially depleted themselves
    - Always lock out your flashlight so it cannot be accidentally turned on, some folks are actually removing cells to assure the light doesn't accidentally turn on
    - do not store your lithium flashlight around other items which may be hazardous
    - do not short a 123 cell, it can generate gasses within the cell
    - if your light drops all of a sudden in brightness, or goes out, lock it out (off). If it continues to get hot, vibrate, make funny sounds, or other wierd behavior, you should consider leaving the immediate area. Personally, I'd toss it in a safe direction/area that doesn't pose a hazard to others, but thats my personal preference.
    - never, ever use a cell that has leaked a bit, or is dented/deformed.
    - if the cell/flashlight gets hot, like around flame or in the sun, it may explode or internally vent.
    - if possible, at a minimum, consider measuring the cell voltage with a volt meter. If the cell is low, do not use it.
    - this list is by no means complete, and is only meant to be a starting guide.
    Some people are all lumens and no lux, while others are all lux and no lumens. Some just thank God they have neither.-- All of my lights have throw--some pretty darn far, into the garbage.

  5. #95
    Flashaholic* uk_caver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Central UK
    Posts
    1,382

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    I think one issue can be that with 'safety' warnings on so many things, it's hard for people to tell which warnings really are safety warnings, so many of the warnings get skim-read or ignored, and it'd be difficult to stop that without some eye-catching warning severe enough to put many people off buying the product at all, or to make some people wonder about returning it.

    There are frequently warnings against mixing cell type/brand or new/used cells on all kinds of AA-powered equipment, where the greatest danger if breaking the rules with alkaline or NiMH cells seems likely to be damaging cells or having them leak, (or whatever dangers might come from having the equipment stopping working unexpectedly early).

    Regarding the cells being primaries, he was talking in the first post about taking cells out of the unopened pack before putting them into the light.

  6. #96
    Unenlightened
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    I just finished reading this eye opening post. I truly had no idea that something like this could happen, and I have a few CR123A series flashlights that I use regularly. I just want to say thank you to JNieporte for posting this and continuing to update it. I don't even know you but do truly pray for your health. Because of this post I have committed myself to some battery education. Thanks also to others input, especially silverfox, his insight was most helpful.

  7. #97
    Flashaholic shipwreck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Flashlight City
    Posts
    493

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    I've followed this thread since the beginning. I am very sorry to hear that you are still having issues.
    Fenix TK16, TK16 - Eagletac P20C2 MKII, T20C2 MKII - Nightcore SRT6, SRT6, EC4S - Olight S20 Baton - Streamlight TRL1s, TRL1s - Inova XO3 - Solarforce L2P, L2, L2M & L2M

  8. #98
    Flashaholic* yifu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Hope you get well soon, this is precisely the reason why i avoid multiple CR123 lights, the chances that two of them are out of balance and explodes is just much greater than any other cell. I've been using secondary lithium cells for years and never had one fail on me, much less explode or vent and i've put them through lots of torture, including discharging under 2.5V, overcharging, overdischarging over the 2C max current, put them in freezers/ovens (in a running flashlight of course), dropped them and stuck nails through ones that i didn't need anymore. And i've done all that to the LiCo's brother LiPo and cheap Trustfires/Ultrafires, which are more dangerous.

    I think all the bad reputation that lithium cells have comes form primary lithium cells, used in series. Secondary lithium cells of any chemistry (LiCo,LiMn,LiPo) are very safe even if you take them past the limits. This is especially true if you use cells from reputable manufacturers like Sanyo, Panasonic etc, or use them with protection circuits.

  9. #99
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Valley Forge, Pa.
    Posts
    5,948

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by Illum View Post
    the thread op used the ones that comes preshrunk in sticks of 2-4, there is no way measure the cells individually on a meter. Thats where the problem was. At the factory the cells were probably 100%, but one or more had a higher rate of self discharge where coupled by storage conditions and loading went unbalanced. Its a big price to pay for convenience
    Nothing do do with your post! Hey, how come the Husky is not in the lead??!!!! They are sled Pulling Dogs,those little Dogs can't be leading!! lol!!

    I like it,it is cool! I need to get my Husky on here doing that!

    take care,,,Roberto

  10. #100
    Flashaholic* firelord777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    931

    Default Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by yifu View Post
    Hope you get well soon, this is precisely the reason why i avoid multiple CR123 lights, the chances that two of them are out of balance and explodes is just much greater than any other cell. I've been using secondary lithium cells for years and never had one fail on me, much less explode or vent and i've put them through lots of torture, including discharging under 2.5V, overcharging, overdischarging over the 2C max current, put them in freezers/ovens (in a running flashlight of course), dropped them and stuck nails through ones that i didn't need anymore. And i've done all that to the LiCo's brother LiPo and cheap Trustfires/Ultrafires, which are more dangerous.

    I think all the bad reputation that lithium cells have comes form primary lithium cells, used in series. Secondary lithium cells of any chemistry (LiCo,LiMn,LiPo) are very safe even if you take them past the limits. This is especially true if you use cells from reputable manufacturers like Sanyo, Panasonic etc, or use them with protection circuits.
    OMG man! You hammer nails in them!? I thought the insides could permanently blind you if it squirted in your eye or something. I'm going to put some nails in mine now...

    JK

  11. #101
    Unenlightened
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13

    Ooo Re: Flashlight Explosion

    This is absolutely need to know information... I am very glad I found this forum and this post as I was blissfully unaware of exactly how dangerous some of these batteries are. I now see just keeping an eye on them while they recharge is not near enough of a precaution. I will be throwing away my cheap rechargeable batteries and buying quality replacements and chargers immediately. Your health is the most precious thing a person has and its odd to think I have been unknowingly gambling with it to save a few dollars...

  12. #102

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Why are single cell safer. Are 18650's just as dangerous as 123's.
    And of course, continued recovery.

  13. #103
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    taxachusetts
    Posts
    158

    Default Flashlight Explosion

    Wow, in my ignorant bliss of all things batteries I'm glad that I've stuck with 'traditional' batteries, corroded lights are easier to fix or replace than a house/lives and lungs.

    I've got kids, I know what I did to batteries when I was a kid... I also have a stupid dog and a cat that enjoys batting everything on the floor.

    Prayers for your lungs.

    Scary, JMHO but lights are supposed to be helpful or dead, possibility of explosion/fire/and /eek!/ lung damage is not what I want to think of when using or playing with them.

    I'm safety conscious, the very real threat of chemical burns, I had no idea... Guess I'll be talking to friends and family and gathering more info.


    Tapatalk

  14. #104
    Retired Administrator Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    9,515

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by Skimo View Post
    Wow, in my ignorant bliss of all things batteries I'm glad that I've stuck with 'traditional' batteries, corroded lights are easier to fix or replace than a house/lives and lungs.
    Just as the fuel you put in your car can be dangerous, mishandled Li-ion batteries can be dangerous, properly handled they are quite safe.

    Norm

  15. #105
    Flashaholic* uk_caver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Central UK
    Posts
    1,382

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    I'd agree that now, when it comes to Li-Ion, with effective brand-name protected cells available, things should be pretty safe if handled sensibly even without much specialist knowledge, assuming protection circuits work, and the buyer is either aware of protected cells or is fortunate enough to do one-stop-shopping somewhere that only sells good protected cells.

    In the events described this case, it was commercial CR123 primaries which were involved, both from the same packaging, by someone not doing anything obviously wrong - a situation a regular person could be in without ever considering they are a 'hobbyist', though it does seem events like this are fortunately rare.
    Given how much many kids like taking things to pieces, and how some kids wouldn't react the way one might wish to 'never ever mix

  16. #106
    Flashaholic* dc38's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    On the east coast of the yoosah. In the place where the bad drivers are.
    Posts
    2,039

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    In the followup of this thread...has anybody heard from JNieporte lately?

  17. #107
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    316

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by dc38 View Post
    In the followup of this thread...has anybody heard from JNieporte lately?
    Hi. How have I been doing? Not so good. I log in to reply to PMs and that's about it, as I just don't have the money for flashlights and I'd rather not be tempted. Same with knives, guns, multi-tools, EDC trinkets, etc.
    It sucks, but my money has to go to medications (the pain killers and breathing meds are the most expensive) and doctor bills.

  18. #108

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Had one blow up last night on me !!!! grabbed a few old flashlights to mess with last night and laid them on my work bench I use for reloading . I was setting in my chair when all the sudden a load bang, the surefire 9P with the three titanium inovation batteries had blown one of the batteries. I could not figure what happened at first ! I thought I had ran my chair roller over a primer that was on the floor . then I looked at the flashlight and the body was still warm . the smell was kinda wierd like a chemical of some kind. I knew it was not good so I opened my door to let the building air out. Lucky I have no side affects yet. I just looked at the flashlight and pulled out the batteries put the batteries back in and turned the tailcap to see if it was working and it had a real low dim light so I turned it off and set it down and started messing with another light . about 20 minutes later it blew one battery. I am going through all my stuff and finding all those batteries and going to get rid of them all. Thanks! Mark

  19. #109

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by Texflash View Post
    Had one blow up last night on me !!!! grabbed a few old flashlights to mess with last night and laid them on my work bench I use for reloading . I was setting in my chair when all the sudden a load bang, the surefire 9P with the three titanium inovation batteries had blown one of the batteries. I could not figure what happened at first ! I thought I had ran my chair roller over a primer that was on the floor . then I looked at the flashlight and the body was still warm . the smell was kinda wierd like a chemical of some kind. I knew it was not good so I opened my door to let the building air out. Lucky I have no side affects yet. I just looked at the flashlight and pulled out the batteries put the batteries back in and turned the tailcap to see if it was working and it had a real low dim light so I turned it off and set it down and started messing with another light . about 20 minutes later it blew one battery. I am going through all my stuff and finding all those batteries and going to get rid of them all. Thanks! Mark
    Contact Battery Junction and make them aware of what took place. I know their brand of Titanium Inovation cells have a great reputation on CPF. As do 4Seven's brand of cells.

    Just a personal thing with me, I don't use any Made in China primary CR123 cells. I just don't. Not bashing anyone, just saying I personally feel uneasy if the cells aren't made in America or Japan due to generally stricter Q.C. standards.

    Also, get checked out by a doctor. The stuff inside CR123 cells is toxic. If you handle the cells after they vented like that ... yeah, DEFINITELY go get checked out by a doctor.
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  20. #110
    Flashaholic* P_A_S_1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    1,270

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Question on Li Ions. I only have one light, a Malkoff HD, where I run two 18500s together. The batteries are new and have only been charged/discharged a few times but I've noticed one charges up to 4.20 while the other 4.18. While using the light and checking the voltage one battery will have a slightly lower voltage (ex. 3.92 to 3.94). I understand that using two batteries of varying voltage can be dangerous but would that apply when the variation is slight like in this case?

  21. #111
    Silver Moderator
    SilverFox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Bellingham WA
    Posts
    12,417

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Hello P A S 1,

    You should be OK. I start getting concerned when the difference exceeds 2%.

    Tom
    Behind every Great man there's always a woman rolling her eyes...

    Most batteries don't die - they are tortured to near death, then murdered...

  22. #112
    Flashaholic* P_A_S_1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    1,270

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverFox View Post
    Hello P A S 1,

    You should be OK. I start getting concerned when the difference exceeds 2%.

    Tom

    Thanks.

  23. #113

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Unbelievable. What a crazy thing to happen from using a torch. I used to run around with a torch when I was a kid, my young bloke when he was in cadets used an led torch too, except with safer AAA alkalines. I now know its called a zoomie. Its frightening to think I could have been told about lithium torches, where to buy batteries etc, and just handed him a great torch. We spent $100 on his pocket knife because I do like to buy him better quality items so its entirely possible, luckily no one told me about lithium led torches.

    To the OP, I have no idea what to say except good luck mate.

    Quote Originally Posted by firelord777 View Post
    OMG man! You hammer nails in them!? I thought the insides could permanently blind you if it squirted in your eye or something. I'm going to put some nails in mine now...

    JK
    I just bought my first high power battery torch, it runs a 26650, and I shall follow your advice in disposing of them when they deplete with a nail. Or was this advice only for the 123's? < this needs to be bigger.

  24. #114
    Flashaholic* Rosoku Chikara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Niigata, Japan
    Posts
    606

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by yifu View Post
    ...I think all the bad reputation that lithium cells have comes form primary lithium cells, used in series. Secondary lithium cells of any chemistry (LiCo,LiMn,LiPo) are very safe even if you take them past the limits. This is especially true if you use cells from reputable manufacturers like Sanyo, Panasonic etc, or use them with protection circuits...<snip>
    Anyone care to comment on this observation? Can someone rate a variety of cells and cell chemistries (if possible, "all" of them) on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 = most dangerous)? And perhaps go on to weight that number with another factor that takes into account the number of cells being used? (Based on my understanding that usually one cell is far safer than multiple cells?)

    Sorry, I know this is a rather big request, but I am curious to know whether there is much consensus about such things on this forum.
    My avatar photo is that of a small handmade toy boat that propels itself along the water in a realistic "chug-chug" kind of motion, yet is powered entirely by CandlePower. (Japanese children used to make them out of various types of junk, but now they are largely a "lost art.")

  25. #115
    *Flashaholic* ChrisGarrett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Miami, Florida
    Posts
    5,493

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    We see lots of battery tests for run times and capacity, but we don't get to see many tests on the 'safety' and 'longevity' of these cells. It's just not practical to run 1000 cells of Brand A, or Brand X and see what we see.

    It's a bummer, but it is what it is.

    Stick with the Panasonic made labels, or the Sanyos, if what I can advise and use a DMM to match them up as best we can.

    I have an ADT wireless alarm system that uses sensors that use CR123As and they initially provided cells that I've not heard of, made in China and things have been fine, but 'cells are now my responsibility and I'm using quality cells going forward.

    This topic only enforces that concern.

    Chris
    Convoy: S2, S2+, M1, M2, Fenix: P1D, PD32, HL30, ET: D25C Ti, SF: 6P, ZL: SC-600, Klarus: P2A, Jetbeam: BA-20, Icon: Rogue 1, L3: L10, Xeno: E03, ShiningBeam: I-Mini, Olight: i3s, SWM: D40A, M11R, V11R, Maglite: 6Ds, MMs, Solitaires, LaCrosse BC-700, Maha C-9000, XTAR VP2, MP1S, XP1, MC1+, WP2 II, NiteCore i4, v2.

  26. #116
    Flashaholic* degarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Akron, Ohio
    Posts
    1,981

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisGarrett View Post
    Stick with the Panasonic made labels, or the Sanyos, if what I can advise and use a DMM to match them up as best we can.

    Chris
    Generic (and *fire) are scary.

    Also: Keep away from heat, store in crush proof container (to avoid any short, esp via crushing force), keep away from water, test voltages off charger and before, be aware of risk of multi cell light (chain reaction thermal runaway), buy a reputable good charger, charge in a fire proof tin. <In short: heat, charge, & short risk.> I also think a well designed light should have under and over charge circuit protection, and be designed to handle an explosion (even if operator error).

    I know a damaged protection circuit could cause short; however, I feel in real world, it is more likely they will save my butt from an overcharge/undercharge/or short (esp. short in the light).

    It would not be a bad idea to keep a respirator around (work, garage, or the house) where you charge. Though, in secondary cells, I am not sure if the metal concentration as important as other chemical (at this point in my knowledge).
    Some people are all lumens and no lux, while others are all lux and no lumens. Some just thank God they have neither.-- All of my lights have throw--some pretty darn far, into the garbage.

  27. #117

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    Hi JNieporte, you have be deepest regards and sympathies. I hope you get better to your original state. I think it is very commendable to you that you don't want to sue anyone in your ordeal.

    Any new updates?

    -Best wishes Kevin

  28. #118
    Enlightened
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    First of all I wish the best and fast recovery to JNieporte. Thanks for this report, it is quite an eye opener.

    Although I have some quality flashlights I'm quite new to Lithium batteries. So far I just had a small Nextorch that I use for diving which runs on CR123 and a "budget" dive light (it drawned at 20 meters...) that used a 18650 (the battery that came with the light was an ultrafire, blue).
    Recently I bought a PD35 and P12 and as I'm still waiting for 18650 batteries to arrive I tried the PD35 with 2twoCR123. When I get home I'm going to take them off of the light and wait for the proper batteries to arrive.

    Again, best wishes to JNieporte.

  29. #119

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    CR123's are proper batteries. Sometimes things just happen, like with JNieporte (which was terrible). But CR123s can be dangerous along with 18650 and any other lithium batteries or any batteries in general. I would say using 1 cell is a bit safer especially with a protection circuit but I use two primary cells in my light and I like the output and runtime but it's too costly for me to run it that way so I bought some rechargeable IMR 18350's for my 18650 light. It gives me a bit more power, a lot less run time, and a lot more heat. But is it worth the extra danger and heat and loss of output?... Well to me yes.

  30. #120

    Default Re: Flashlight Explosion

    And here I've been thinking about using those batteries in the project I'm working on. Call me a coward, but I prefer a light I'm not wondering if it'll take my hand off in the back of my mind. I'll be using regular AA or AAA batteries if at all possible. Thank you JNieporte for being willing to share.
    Last edited by shine brighter; 12-23-2013 at 08:05 AM.

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •