FENIX PD30 Warning: Do not use any RCRs in the PD30

My Fenix PD30 started to burn, and caused extensive smoke damage to our home!

Here is the story, We often use our LEDs with very low light capacity to provide area or bathroom lighting at night, esp when we have guests. Last week, I turned on my Fenix PD30 on the low setting and left it for several hours. It was using Tenergy RCR123a 3.0v batteries which had about five previous charges on them. The batteries were not freshly charged, having been used four or five times after being charges for five or so minutes each time. I turned on the PD30, and several hours later the whole house was filled with extremely pugnent smoke. We ran around to find the source. The light did not appear damaged, unfortunately, I made the huge mistake of picking up the light to inspect it, and my hand was seriously burned.:fail:

I was in contact with 4 Sevens where I bought the light. Today their customer service responded by e-mail. Part of their note says:
"Also, I wanted to let you know the problem youare having is more than likely a direct result from your batteries. RCR123'sare not compatible with the PD30, it is too much voltage. On the productlisting it states it is compatible with 3 volt lithium batteries only. What youhave been using is 3.7 lithium ion batteries which will not only cause yourlight to not work properly but it can also cause it to heat up too much."

I did not tell them that I was using 3.7v RCRs, only that I was using RCRs. I re-read the literature supplied with the light, and it does mention RCRs at all.

So, bottom line: Beware, and do not use any RCR123s in the PD30 (or any other light for that matter that does nto specifically recommend their use.)

(((As a side note. This is the third Chinese made light I have problems with in the past year. (Quark AA, PD30 R4 and PD 30 Q5.). After several months and many e-mails, the other two were repaired or replaced. I am not going to try on this one since it was apparently my mistake for using the wrong batteries. I have never had a problem with any of my Surefires or Malkof dropins using the same batteries (other than a couple begginer mistakes years ago: namely instantly blowing some bulbs when inadvertantly installing the wrong battery, such as RCRs with a incan lamp).)))

LiFePO4 only with Fenix. Glad you're ok.

I had a similar incident with Trustfires and a Streamlight many many years back. That was when I was still ignorant of LiCo cells...


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Posted from my phone.

Maybe you could run it with a 17670 battery or one RCR123 and a 1x123 body. I put my P3D Q5 on a P2D body, running one RCR123, it runs good on all levels but Turbo, it flickers on Turbo.

Great idea Lightwalker. Unfortunately, this one is fried.

The newer version, the Fenix PD31/32 takes 2xCR123 (2x3.0v=6.0v) or an 18650 (4.2v).
I don't think any? Fenix lights are designed for 2x4.2v = 8.4v

RCR123 can be many different things.
LiFePo is 3.6v (3.0v nominal).
Lithium Ion is 4.2v (3.7 nominal).
Tenergy is a modified Lithium Ion 3.2v (3.0v nominal).
16340 is exactly a 4.2v Li-Ion.

Anybody who uses Lithium Ion batteries should have a digital multimeter and measure the charge before using.
Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, Autozone, Advance Auto Parts, and Radio Shack have them.

Gordo, I certainly agree about testing your freshly charged Lithium Ion batteries. That can provide a problem free early warning about either the battery, or charger.

By the way, Radio Shack has some great multimeters, including one that uses cheap and common 9v batteries which has become my favorite.

Raymond3 said:

Great idea Lightwalker. Unfortunately, this one is fried.

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Oops, sorry to hear that.

Use the 3.0v LiFePO4 like what Ualnosaj said. I'd play it safe and always have a volt meter to test the batteries. It's rather important for those who uses rechargeable Lithium batteries.

Raymond3 said:

I certainly agree about testing your freshly charged Lithium Ion batteries. That can provide a problem free early warning about either the battery, or charger.
By the way, Radio Shack has some great multimeters, including one that uses cheap and common 9v batteries which has become my favorite.

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Yes, my comment wasn't directed at you, but at anybody who should stumble upon these threads by Googling, which was me last year.

What was actually going wrong here?
Was it the light itself that started to burn or was it the batteries?
It is a 2 cell light and it was runnig on low so the voltage will go deeper before it dies compared to when it is run on high.
If the to cells are not well balanced one of the cells will eventualy be overdischarged.
Are these protected cells?
In the battery section there are several threads about this risk.

Edit: as said above 17670 is a safer option and of course a DMM to check voltage. My 2 x cr123 lights that doesn't fit 17670 I consider "primarys only" lights even if they could handle the voltage from 2 x RCR123.

I wonder if this is something many people even think about?

Coming mostly from a Ni-MH / Alkaline background I am still inclined to view Primaries and RCRs as pretty much the same beast and would expect to use them interchangeably. It would be all too easy to overlook the fact that two RCR123's can be putting out 2.4V more than primaries if recently charged.

I also find it kind of annoying when the manufacturers don't specifically warn about the fact that the light is NOT rated for RCRs.

I have just had a look at the Fenix website page for the PD30 XP-G R5 and there is no mention at all of what voltage the light will handle. There is also no reference to whether 18650s can be used.

The OP has told us that Fenix quoted him
"On the productlisting it states it is compatible with 3 volt lithium batteries only."
I know I can't see anything that mentions the word ONLY. I guess one should assume this?

Are we all expected to search for detailed reviews by the gurus in here (Selfbuilt, BigMac_79, HJK and others) before we purchase? Somehow, they usually manage to get voltage ratings and can advise us in what cells to use or not use. I love reading a good review and at this time would not purchase a light I hadn't thoroughly researched but I think it's a bit poor that a company wouldn't give this information on their webpage - especially if it leads to damaged lights and injured people.

Does anyone else think the OP's experience is a fairly common mistake?

I think that if the light couldn't handle the voltage it would fry when it was switched on.
But it worked for several hours and the fire was much later when I guess the batteries was getting low in charge.
My guess is that it wasn't anything wrong with the light but the cells (or one of the cells) got overdischarged and that can result in a fire whatever brand of flashlight.

GunnarGG said:

I think that if the light couldn't handle the voltage it would fry when it was switched on.
But it worked for several hours and the fire was much later when I guess the batteries was getting low in charge.
My guess is that it wasn't anything wrong with the light but the cells (or one of the cells) got overdischarged and that can result in a fire whatever brand of flashlight.

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I am inclined to think you are right in this case Gunnar. That much smoke would seem to be a from a cell rather than from the circuit.

We would need to know if they were protected cells and so forth but on the other hand, the OP did say that the light was "fried". That could mean the heat from the cells destroyed it or it could mean the circuitry was damaged by the voltage. Or perhaps both.

The email from 4Sevens though apparently indicates that the voltage would have been a problem. But it may not necessarily fry the light straight away.
FYI In a recent thread there was a discussion about a vendor here in Australia supplying 6xCR123s as a free bonus with a Thrunite TN31. That light was definitely NOT rated for 18V, (only 12.4V) yet a couple of people had used them with no ill-effects before knowing better. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...7-lumens-to-809-under-its-temperature-control



In either event though, I think my comments and questions still stand in regard to insufficient info being provided by some makers.

It looks like whether the manufacturer suggests it or not ; stacking lithium batteries can be more exciting than anyone could want it to be .
Sticking to single cell lights or stacking NiMh you don't see these problems hardly or at all .
Sorry 'bout your hand .
I'll buy the burnt light from you .

The Fenix P3D used a buck circuit. I remember 4sevens testing one (circa 4-5 ish years ago) and it was good up to 14 volts. 4sevens had a very limited supply of 3x cr123A & 4x cr123A body 'tactical' body tubes.
I don't know if the PD31 & PD32 use the same buck circuit (seeing as 18650 support was a special feature), but the PD30 & PD30+ should have no problem with high voltage.

It was your cells. You should have found a 17650 that fits.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but LiPO cells have less internal resistance than other rechargable cells and they're made to supply a LOT of current. If the cell(s) voltage was dropping wouldn't the current draw begin to rise? Now AFAIK, LiPOs are touted as "safe" cell technology, less chance of a catistrophic failure, so did the driver fail and overheat, then shorting the cell? The OP story is curious to say the least.

I wouldn't leave a flashlight with rechargeable lith batteries unattended for extended periods at all. Better safe then sorry if I needed to I would just use primaries.

The batteries were Li-ion 900 mAh Tenergy 3.0v. from the same batch. They were not protected. I had this batch about 1 1/2 years and had previously used them in the PD30 and several Surefires (6Ps and C2) with Malkoff drop-ins (M61, M61w, M61wl) with no problem. They had been recharged about 5 or six times.

To an earlier poster: yes, I also have two PD31s. The factory literature is clear on battery use for them, and I have only used protected 18650s in them.

cbr400rr said:

I wouldn't leave a flashlight with rechargeable lith batteries unattended for extended periods at all. Better safe then sorry if I needed to I would just use primaries.

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Which is why I love the Xeno E03 warm with diffuser as a night light for my kids vs the S3A with longer runtime but uses a 18650

Just piece of mind.

So what died in this case? Driver or cells?