ATF allows sale of pen gun

sunspot

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Keep in mind that the source that is quoted is an anti-gun site. They spew a lot of half truths and out right lies.
 

Bill.H

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sunspot is right, VPC is about as reliable as HCI. This is what their executive director said ""It is almost unfathomable the depths to which the Ashcroft Justice Department will sink to carry out the bidding of the gun industry and its lobbying allies".

yeah, right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

The whole aim of those organizations is to remove every gun from civilian hands in this country. SOme go so far as to say that once all the illegal guns are gone (like that will ever happen!) then the police can be disarmed too. They do stop short of planning to taking them away from the Marines /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I don't think there's a criminal dumb enough to get one of these and decide to take on a SWAT team with a single shot .17 caliber bullet. Barney Fife could take him out.
 

Empath

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PhotonBoy, I guess I just can't resist asking anymore. Why would such a topic, that is exclusively in the interest of the United States, attract the interest of Canadians to the extend that you start a thread. Incidentally, you do have enough interest in the topic to contribute a bit more to the thread than a link at the start, don't you? We wouldn't want to think you were only doing a drive by.
 

Tomas

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Empath, there's always the Canadian "Tru-Flare" which is available to just about anyone for about 1/10th the cost of the PenGun. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

model04C_pic3.gif


I've had a similar device for years (the original PenFlare, now out of business), and if one does not think a 12 second white phosphorus flare with a range of about 200 feet is not an "anti-personnel" weapon, they should really re-think that.

Take a look through the www.tru-flare.com site, or do a Google search and you'll see that for very little money one can get the keychain launcher and a bunch of flares - or even better the "BearBanger" exploding flares - though they have less range (maybe 120 feet) before they explode with about the energy of a 12 ga. shotgun shell ...

Did I mention they are made in Surrey, BC, Canada? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It is amusing that most of the Canadian dealers of the Tru-Flare pens will only sell to Canadians.

These are recommended for carry by serious outdoors types - boaters, kyakers, climbers, hunters, campers, hikers, etc. In fact, it is thought that one of the current fires in Southern California was started with one (the so-called 'Cedar Fire' in San Diego County).
 

Bill.H

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[ QUOTE ]
Empath said:
PhotonBoy, I guess I just can't resist asking anymore. Why would such a topic, that is exclusively in the interest of the United States, attract the interest of Canadians ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you know it's a Canadian-owned company manufacturing them?
 

PhotonBoy

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From the article: "Stinger was incorporated in February 2002 by Canadian citizen Marc Lefebvre."

Post 9/11, I'm surprised that a weapon of this nature would be permitted. Assuming it passes for a pen upon cursory examination, it would be easy to get it aboard a plane, for example. (But, then again, a single shot weapon would be fairly easy for someone with an inexpensive lathe to create.)

Man's brain, however, is the most powerful weapon. Look at what was done with box cutters...
 

James S

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Hmm, you still need a license to buy the thing right? And you have to apply for that and the agency who's job it is to keep fellons and terrorists from owning weapons should turn you down if you're going to use it for that right?

It's entirely possible that the government would fail to find out that your a terrorist and let you have one anyway. And it's entirely possible that you could steal one from another legally registered user.

I think that for something that actually pretends to be something else that a concieled carry license would be necessary to lug it around at all. These are even harder to get.

You can't just mail order one of these and carry it off to the airport. I understand that people around here might not trust those agencies which are charged with keeping terrorists from getting weapons, but I don't think this is really a blip on the radar of the bigger picture since it's just one more thing that they already can't get.
 

sunspot

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I had a pen flare when I was 15 years old. I found that I could replace the spent flare can with a pipe that would hold and fire a .22 round. I was quite easy to do.
Yes, it was stupid to do. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
 

revolvergeek

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American Derringer company made these 10 or so years ago. I had one in .25 acp for a few months. Fairly reliable, horribly innacurate, and largely useless. Any number of items would make a far more dangerous weapon for the size and weight. These things are pretty big, about the size of a Marksalot or a Super Sharpie and all stainless steel so they are pretty hefty. Everyone that ever saw mine instatnly knew it wasn't a pen. I used to stick it in a shirt pocket or a Mini-Maglite sheath on my belt when I would go eat with some cop buddies of mine just to see who would notice. Every single time they noticed it instantly and wanted to look at it and know what it was.

The main thing that distinguishes them from real penguns (James Bond Spook stuff) is that these things have to be folded into the middle to make then deploy the trigger so they can be fired. This folding into a 'gun' shape to be fired is what kept ATF from classifying it as an AOW. The original Stinginer (AWC made them I think) did not have to be manipulated to be fired, other than taking the safety off, and some models were small enough to be used as keyfobs. These were not ever intended for the civillian market, and require lots of AOW paperwork.
 

doubleganger

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[ QUOTE ]
BlindedByTheLite said:
it's good for shooting someone..

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be afraid that shooting someone with a single .22 would at least in the short term just mostly **** them off if it wasn't between the eyes or through the heart. I wonder what the one shot stop figures are for a .22. Pretty low I'd imagine. Understand I'm not saying that I'd *want* to be shot with one. Just that If I ever really need to shoot someone I have other much more effective tools.
 

Chengiz

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This weapon would be very effective as a contact weapon (touch the muzzle to a part of the body you want to destroy) As range to muzzle increases the accuracy goes with it.

The .22 is a very squirrly round. I would not wish to encounter one in a lethal fight. I saw a video where a state trooper dumped his magazine into a bad guy. The bad guy hit the trooper once in his extended bicep. The round travelled up his arm and hit the socket, then turned into the body and cut his sub clavian artery. The officer bled out in 10 seconds.

The bad guy went on to face trial. He was hit 7 times with none of the rounds penetrating into vital organs. He was probably a hundred pounds over weight. The density of the round was not enough to get through.

The bad guy had a six shor derringer. .22 long if I am not mistaken.
 

NightStorm

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[ QUOTE ]
doubleganger said:


I'd be afraid that shooting someone with a single .22 would at least in the short term just mostly **** them off if it wasn't between the eyes or through the heart. I wonder what the one shot stop figures are for a .22. Pretty low I'd imagine. Understand I'm not saying that I'd *want* to be shot with one. Just that If I ever really need to shoot someone I have other much more effective tools.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it has been a while since I've seen the figures, but I believe the "one shot stop" capability of a .22 is about 80-85%. Surprised? The problem with the .22 is insufficient energy to leave the body once it enters, but sufficient energy to continue ricocheting off of hard tissue. Just ask Ronald Reagan or James Brady. I've talked to several LEOs on this and the concensus is that they rather be shot by a 9mm or a .38 than by a .22.

Dan
 

mrorange

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I have two of these pen guns (which makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to know I'm upsetting the VPC), an older R.J. Braverman manufactured one and one of the newer Stinger ones. Anyone who would confuse these with a real pen needs to have their eyes examined, they are HUGE. They look like a large tire pressure gauge, and besides, they cannot be shot while in the "pen" configuration. I'm sure they have a good use, but I have'nt found it yet, they are more of a novelty. If anyones interested, I can take some pics and post them with something in the pics to show scale.

And to top it all off, I'm a cop and I don't have a problem with it, why should they? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Tomas

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James S, no license required to buy - it's considered a 'pistol' not anything special.

My usual dealer in Federal Way, Washington carries them (18 miles away), and I can walk in, buy one, and walk out with it (Some folks would have to wait up to 30 days, some would be denied since a background check is required if one does not have a carry license, but still no license or permit to purchase or own is required in this state.)

Being metal it would set off the metal detectors, and anyone actually picking one up and looking at the ends of it would spot it was not 'just a pen.'

Of course, considering the general level of training of most airport security folks, they'd probably fiddle with it and shoot someone if it were loaded ...
 
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