click multi click

hoffmyster86 · Jul 28, 2012

hi all, i cant help notising people seem to like multi press selecting on the torch's,

i cant understandy why, for instance i'm under a car, head up in um yonder, arm reached in some silly arses posision trying to get a spanner to fit a nut, when.. click ffff flashing sos unpty doodley flashing three flashing 6 hi medium, darnit i wanted hi, then click goes selection 15 41 31 21 9 7 4 3 2 ...i just fellasleep wedged in a car going throught the selctions.

next sinario, jeeez i need this setting...click click clcickcickllickcli arghhhhhhh

lol...becomes more of a hinderence, has anybody actualy came accross a sinario other than ooooo novalty novalty clciky clicky that selcting through 3 five or more is actualy any good?

why not just twist the head and have it stay put? (apart from,too many channels to incorperate ).

.....i've seen an advertised 15 selectable via tail cap click (..arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh).

Bigpal · Jul 28, 2012

I agree about being forced to cycle through all the modes. I don't like it too much. But I do like when it's a couple settings with head tight and a couple settings with head loose.

Like the Fenix LD20. Head tight - press for high and strobe. Head loose - low/mid/high

If I don't need strobe, my BC40 is all I need. High with the head tight and low with a quarter twist.

Gunner12 · Jul 28, 2012

I think it's fine if there are very few modes.

Also, it's probably cheaper to make lights that switch modes via clicks, because you don't have to design in other things like detecting the position of the flashlight head, or fitting a second switch or other ways to change modes. There are some pretty good multimode lights with just one switch, but those usually aren't cheap.

I had a 21 (or something like that) mode light with a single switch before (split into 3-4 groups) and it wasn't that hard to use. I just stayed in the group with low-medium-high-moonlight-strobe or something like that. If I was on high, I already knew how many presses I needed to do to get to the mode I want, so I just quickly tap to the mode I want.

lightfooted · Jul 28, 2012

It's why I only have one light that functions that way...and it's a big dual 18650 thrower that I rarely take out, all of my other lights are either single modes or have another method of changing modes.

Lucciola · Jul 29, 2012

I agree with the OP (although I had to read the starting post two times to figure out what he wants to tell us

. No offence, colloquial text style is just not so easy for non-native speakers like me).

After trying a Quark with the regular interface once I never got my hands on a light with a multi-click UI again. I found that too many selectable modes made me adjust the light too often. Sure it is nice to have a brightness level for every need, but to be honest - how many brightness levels do you need?

I like the tactical UI of the Quarks: Two modes which can be selected *before* switching the light on and which I can define myself. Great! And I hardly ever reprogram them. One high mode, one low mode, that's all I need.

Nevertheless it seems that non flashaholics seem to get along better with the multi-click UI. Click for on, tap to make it brighter. Everyone can understand this within seconds. And the hardware for this UI is cheap.
The easiest UI is a rotary controll ring: Turn to switch on, keep on turning to make it brighter, turn back for less brightness. Like a radio or an electric stove. But the hardware is more expensive and less likely to be offered in a low-cost consumer light.

The tactical UI seems to be hard to understand for non-flashaholics. In my familly everyone I demonstrated the tactical UI was interrested and impressed, but found it too complicated.

However I have to say that I found one major advantage of the multi-click UI. And that is single-handed operation. I take the light in my hand and without changing my grip I can switch it on and select modes. An important feature, say, for the under-the-car scennario of the OP. With controll-rings or another mode selecting button or different bezel positions this is either difficult or impossible. That's the only thing that bothers me about the tactical Quark UI, that I have to change my grip or use two hands to change modes.

Therefore my EDC has a multi-click UI, but only with two modes (SF E1B). I can pull it out of my pocket and switch it on without surprises. It comes on in high first, but I got used to hold the light against my body and click through to low mode if I want to keep my eyes adapted to darkness.

I also sometimes carry a Preon2. If I want to go back from medium to low I switch it off and then on again, so I don't have to go through high. But this leaves me a moment in darkness which is also not ideal.

So yeah, multi-click UIs with more than three modes are terrible. Sometimes even three modes can be too much.

After getting used to my E1B I'll certainly buy more two-mode Surefires, like the E1L for longer runtime and the Lx2 Lumamax for more brightness (although the latter has a very special UI, I'm curious whether I'll like it).

hoffmyster86 · Jul 29, 2012

lucciola, no worries a few people have the same problem..

although i get the capital side of manufacturing, i cant helpthinking a few pence / cents more for co,poinents is a small price to pay. (basically when you've made 4 million 'units' that 3p per unit adds up into a profit margin verses giving what is wanted).

the multiclick is a chip isnt it? or one of the fuctions of the chip.

and, any one wanting a presure switch is a bit stuck flicking through, or even worse, that earthquake, flood or whatever, when tensions are hi and click click click too late!

the point of the thread is to try and filter some posative feedback back through the grape vine to the guys that make the torch's.. theres no way on this planet any true tactical torch has umpty click functions, the end game is ahhh got to turn it off now and alert everyone for A FEW MILES.

to add, wheres the IR versions? i know theres a few but theyre vertualy all the same design, same tube same LED so i'd naturaly assume the same driver boards too.(150 dollers a unit is taking the wet tbh...20-30 dolloers ok, but they should really perform better than useless lol)

Gunner12 · Jul 29, 2012

The multiclick control is just a microcontroller, usually controlling the LED via PWM. If you have the tools, you can reprogram the controller to do what you want, or even remove it and just have the light run at max. For cheap lights, the fewer parts the better. When the lights sells for $15 each, an extra switch for mode switching and the tooling needed to fit that switch might mean $0.50 less profit per unit, which adds up very quickly.

Also, multi mode is a selling point for most people, kinda like a loud but muddy bass for cheap headphone vs clear mid and highs on high end ones.

People who really need tactical lights will buy lights built for that function (or would if they had the money and knowledge), for the rest of the population, a few extra click doesn't mean too much.

hoffmyster86 · Jul 30, 2012

Gunner12, that is the point in general i think, 'the sell point feature'.

is it posable to attach a second select switch to the cheeper curcuit? 2 settings usualy do me for most uses, three would be a stretch. hmm definate food for thought, i've seen a few 'just what i would have wanted' but wouldnt buy because of the multi select.

Gunner12 · Jul 30, 2012

If you could reprogram and rewire one of the pins of the microcontroller to the switch, you can attach a second switch for mode switching (momentary switch is best for this). Just program the internal pin to be pull up (or put a pull up resistor if this is not possible), attach one end of the switch to the pin, and the other end of the switch to ground. Some of the multimode lights use Atmel ATTiny, which is arduino compatible, or a PIC controller, which you can also program. The hard part is either getting the tools, or learning the programming language.

Here's a thread where there's some discussion on programming SMD components.

skyfire · Aug 1, 2012

Lucciola said:
I agree with the OP (although I had to read the starting post two times to figure out what he wants to tell us . No offence, colloquial text style is just not so easy for non-native speakers like me).

After trying a Quark with the regular interface once I never got my hands on a light with a multi-click UI again. I found that too many selectable modes made me adjust the light too often. Sure it is nice to have a brightness level for every need, but to be honest - how many brightness levels do you need?

I like the tactical UI of the Quarks: Two modes which can be selected *before* switching the light on and which I can define myself. Great! And I hardly ever reprogram them. One high mode, one low mode, that's all I need.

Nevertheless it seems that non flashaholics seem to get along better with the multi-click UI. Click for on, tap to make it brighter. Everyone can understand this within seconds. And the hardware for this UI is cheap.
The easiest UI is a rotary controll ring: Turn to switch on, keep on turning to make it brighter, turn back for less brightness. Like a radio or an electric stove. But the hardware is more expensive and less likely to be offered in a low-cost consumer light.

The tactical UI seems to be hard to understand for non-flashaholics. In my familly everyone I demonstrated the tactical UI was interrested and impressed, but found it too complicated.

However I have to say that I found one major advantage of the multi-click UI. And that is single-handed operation. I take the light in my hand and without changing my grip I can switch it on and select modes. An important feature, say, for the under-the-car scennario of the OP. With controll-rings or another mode selecting button or different bezel positions this is either difficult or impossible. That's the only thing that bothers me about the tactical Quark UI, that I have to change my grip or use two hands to change modes.

Therefore my EDC has a multi-click UI, but only with two modes (SF E1B). I can pull it out of my pocket and switch it on without surprises. It comes on in high first, but I got used to hold the light against my body and click through to low mode if I want to keep my eyes adapted to darkness.

I also sometimes carry a Preon2. If I want to go back from medium to low I switch it off and then on again, so I don't have to go through high. But this leaves me a moment in darkness which is also not ideal.

So yeah, multi-click UIs with more than three modes are terrible. Sometimes even three modes can be too much.

After getting used to my E1B I'll certainly buy more two-mode Surefires, like the E1L for longer runtime and the Lx2 Lumamax for more brightness (although the latter has a very special UI, I'm curious whether I'll like it).

definitely try out surefire's dual-stage momentary. its my favorite UI for edc. 1 hand operation, no need to change grip positions, instant access to low or high. my L1 can even be used with an underhand position. i hold onto the tailcap with my pinky and ring finger, and twist the bezel with my index finger and thumb to turn on constant low. twisting to constant high is not so convenient though.
for work though, i like a single mode clicky, or 2 mode clicky like the E1B, or E2DL, which is my backup.

i too dislike cycling through more than 2 modes. even 3 modes is too much cycling for me. i dont like twisting the bezel either, i prefer an operation where i do not have to use 2 hands or change grip positions. i did use a quark tactical for a long time. and really did like that i could set its output, and choose which mode before turning on the light. there were other issues which convinced me to look elsewhere though.

Lee1959 · Aug 1, 2012

Thats why 99% of my lights are one function, the exception being the L0PSE in my pocket which has three simple ones. The only other exception is my headlamp which has three, low, high, and red.

hoffmyster86 · Aug 1, 2012

cheers Gunner, i'll have a read through that.

a two touch pad would be usuable...one on full, one on half, and i suspect a dimmer on both with memory is getting a little greedy lol.

Gunner12 · Aug 1, 2012

Yeah, something like a camera button would be nice (as in, detectd half presses and full presses), hold partway for monentary, press fully for on. Then when on, half press to change modes.

You'll probably need two input pins for this, one for each switch. Maybe when I have time I'll play with my arduino and buy an ATTiny to test with. It'll be nice to make your own driver with customized to what you want.

fyrstormer · Aug 1, 2012

Most multi-mode flashlights are very gimmicky. A lot of newer lights have some kind of rotary control to select modes, and that works much better -- not least because it restricts the designer from adding a zillion fancy modes that will get used once before the flashlight is replaced.

mossyoak · Aug 1, 2012

I learned basic motor skills in my adolescent years. Never had a problem with lights that have a click UI.

markr6 · Aug 1, 2012

UI's drive me insane!!! And after having all the various options I cannot decide what I like or become 100% satisfied. The LD10 is nice for one hand operation, but just the other night I wanted the medium setting every time I turned it on so I had to fiddle with the switch and make sure I didn't push it in too far. Very annoying. On the other hand, my LD22 has the side mode switch and memory which is great, but sometimes I find myself trying to adjust the brightness using the tailcap switch out of habit...DOH! I think because of the memory and momentary on feature, the LD12/22 wins for me. The two switches on something like the TK41 sounds like a perfect setup for me, I just need to bring myself to blow $115 on a flashlight

markr6 · Aug 1, 2012

mossyoak said:
I learned basic motor skills in my adolescent years. Never had a problem with lights that have a click UI.

LOL! To be fair, I learned to take a dump well before my adolescent years. But that doesn't mean I never have problems...thanks Taco Bell lunch.

fyrstormer · Aug 1, 2012

mossyoak said:
I learned basic motor skills in my adolescent years. Never had a problem with lights that have a click UI.

You don't find it remotely annoying to have to click through multiple settings you don't want to get to the setting you do want?

fyrstormer · Aug 1, 2012

markr6 said:
The two switches on something like the TK41 sounds like a perfect setup for me, I just need to bring myself to blow $115 on a flashlight

I have absolutely no sympathy for you.

Fortunately, this picture is outdated and some of the more insanely expensive lights have since been sold. :devil:

mossyoak · Aug 1, 2012

fyrstormer said:
You don't find it remotely annoying to have to click through multiple settings you don't want to get to the setting you do want?

To me it's all about trade offs. The ideal ui is a selector ring but that adds bulk and length so I do t like that in a EDC.
Twisty ui like in the 4sevens mini is play on click ui but "missed levels" is minimalized.

I really like the multi stage ui of the ra twisty and muyshondt aeon.

The HDS clicky interface is effective for managing multiple levels.

By far my favorite balance of UI size and robustness what is found on the mcgizmo PD thats why I carry one. Granted I wouldnt mind a third level.

click multi click

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