Rough decisions & no experience

Greetings, I'm a newbie here but have been looking around and attempting to research the various flashlights available. I've taken a keen liking to surefire lights, however I'm a cheap ******* and refuse to constantly pay for batteries.

I plan on buying two lights (at least right now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif), one for general purpose carry on and random odd jobs/work, and one purely for my truck. They both need to be rechargable in some fashion or other.

I would like the C3 due to it's lumen rating and runtime, but can't recharge. The E2e looks sexy as hell for it's lumen rating and runtime but again, batteries are the death of me. I don't particularly like the design of lights like the Z2. They seem overly cumbersome, if I do at all I will be shooting not very often with these lights. I have looked at some conversions but really don't know the full extent of them and what could be made to be rechargable.

As it is, I suppose I am stuck with either the C2 or 6P. Thoughts, additions, suggestions, reccomendations?

For my car, I'm nearly completely clueless. It needs to have a decent throw (I'm not some spec op or something though taking people down) but more importantly have a decent runtime if poop hits the fan and I need to see in the middle of the night for more than 20 minutes. Some of the surefire lights look nice, but I'm not sure if they would be best for this application. I looked at the "SS" (I believe it is) but in general have heard of too many random problems with bulbs, etc. This is going in a truck, not a street queen vehicle /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. The 10x is flat out too damn expensive for what little use it likely would be getting.

Lastly, if anyone still reading this god awful post -- what's a good reference for lumens in say terms of 20 lumens to 60 to 100. Is the scale linear, or exponential..? How would it compare to the typical 4D maglite.

Thanks for any help at all, I have no bearing to go off of.

-Josh Y.

Welcome Joshy!!

I'm not sure about the 6P or C3, but how about a G2? You can get a rechargable kit for it, if I recall correctly. I think the P60 Lamp Assembly is good for 60 minutes @ 60 lumens, else the P61 for 20 minutes @ 120 lumens. As well, I think the 60 lumens would easily outshine a 4D M*glite... Besides, size of the G2 is small enough to be carried around in a belt pouch or something... its also made of Nitrolon, so I guess its virtually indestructable too!

ANyway, whichever light turns out suitable for your purposes, good luck and enjoy your stay here! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

P/S, if you're worried about bulbs blowing out and need long lasting lights, then you'd be looking at a LED light. It'd be good for you to have one as a backup. For dimmer LED lights, you could look at something like an Arc AAA or CMG Infinity Ultra, else something much brighter and bigger would be like a Surefire L4, Streamlight TL2/TL3, or even a modded light like a Space Needle, etc.. just to name a few!

For your truck light, you say it likely get little use, so I'm wondering if you really want a rechargable. Rechargables aren't something you want to leave in the truck for an indefinite period of time until that day you really need them. You might be better off with a 2C Mag with a radio shack KPR-112 bulb and 3x123 batteries. I really love this combo, as it gives the brightness and throw of a much, much more expensive light, and the lithium batteries can sit for 10 years and still be good. Plus, the lithiums are more reliable in extreme weather.

For carry, you want rechargable and you seem set on surefire, but you only mention the non-rechargable surefires. Have you checked out the 8AX or 8AN? These are rechargable, but a little on the large side for EDC IMO. You might want to get an E1e or E2e in addition just to make sure you always have something with you.

Good luck to you. Quality does not come cheap, although if you keep reading here you will learn there are some very good lights for a reasonable price.

Regarding your requirement for rechargeable flashlights. I have one very critical bit of advice. Rechargeables generally don't have the same runtime as primary cells. Whatever light you get consider this how will you recharge them if there should be an blackout lasting 12-24 hrs?

I learned this during the 1989 Loma Prieta quake. Two and a half hours after the quake hit, every nicad battery powered, scanner, Handheld CB, Ham Radio and flashlight died with no way of recharging.

Since then, every electronic device I've bought that runs off of rechargeables has to have at least one if not two ways of being powered after those rechargables die. 12Vdc cigarette lighter cords or option of taking primary (regular) batteries.

GregR

Thanks for the responses. Yep you can get a recharge kit for the G2 but I really was leaning towards more of the metal bodystyles =/. I think the 6P would be more suited as opposed to it, even if it is a hair taller. I haven't seen or held the G2s so I couldn't venture too far off on it. The nitrolon just didn't appeal as much.

tylerdurden, damnit why'd you have to make good points against me =/. Right now I don't count on having to use it too much vs. the one I would carry on me, so until then it likely would be a better idea to just use normal batteries.

I believe the ones I mentioned have 'conversion kits' available but if I've been mistaken let me know. I wasn't talking actually about the surefire "rechargable" series, but simply anything that could use rechargable batteries in it.

I suppose I'm in an evil predicament as I'm sure nothing will be wholly perfect. There is the KL1 for the E2e but I'd really like a rechargable light for personal carry. 1/2" difference between a E2e and C2 though, not really sure how much a difference this would even carry.

Keep the suggestions coming!

-Josh Y.

Regarding a truck light...

I keep an Inova 5XT and a big old mag 3D Mag in my emergancy kit along with 6 spare CR123s. Between the Inova and Mag I think I'm covered if I ever suffer a break down and need some long term lighting.

Realistically, just the Inova would probably work great, mine seems to create a good flood w/ about a 20' range. The LEDs won't burn out, and the lithiums will store for 10 years... a winning combination for an emergancy truck light.

I also decided to keep a 6P loaded with a P61 LA in an easy access location... for those times that I might need a blindingly bright light in a hurry.

[ QUOTE ]
Double_A said:
Good luck to you. Quality does not come cheap, although if you keep reading here you will learn there are some very good lights for a reasonable price.

Regarding your requirement for rechargeable flashlights. I have one very critical bit of advice. Rechargeables generally don't have the same runtime as primary cells. Whatever light you get consider this how will you recharge them if there should be an blackout lasting 12-24 hrs?

I learned this during the 1989 Loma Prieta quake. Two and a half hours after the quake hit, every nicad battery powered, scanner, Handheld CB, Ham Radio and flashlight died with no way of recharging.

Since then, every electronic device I've bought that runs off of rechargeables has to have at least one if not two ways of being powered after those rechargables die. 12Vdc cigarette lighter cords or option of taking primary (regular) batteries.

GregR

[/ QUOTE ]

Comforting, heh. Looking through the lights more and more it probably is a more reasonable idea to have a larger light running on lithium batteries for emergencies/less use than a normal rechargeable. Aye /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

-Josh Y.

To also follow on to Tylers point. I've heard that nicad rechargeables lose power at a rate of 1% a day in storage. If that is approx. correct they will self discharge to less than half their runtime after two months in a truck. Actually I would imagine it would be even faster than that inside a hot truck.

Most of us here find that "small" difference between the E2e and the C2 too much. You really need to handle them both. Keep reading topics here as there is a topic open on the E2e v. the G2. You'll get some insight on what others think of the E2e v. G2 for daily carryability which we refer to as EDC (Every Day Carry).


Goodluck,
GregR

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tylerdurden said:
For your truck light, you say it likely get little use, so I'm wondering if you really want a rechargable.

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Yes, unless you plan to have a truck mounted charger, I also think you would be better off with a non-rechargable. If you are willing to mount a charger in the truck, maybe something like the Streamlight Stinger HP might be good.

Since I suspect not many people are going to mount a charger in their car, I'd recommend a UK 2L with a few spare batteries. The UK 2L is bombproof, very waterproof, has a decent runtime (~2hrs) and is only a tad less bright than a SF E2. Best of all it's only 26 bucks. The beam isn't the best, but it will work when you need it and keep working even under the worst conditions.

[ QUOTE ]
JoshY said:
I plan on buying two lights (at least right now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif), one for general purpose carry on and random odd jobs/work, and one purely for my truck.

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When you say general purpose carry, do you mean as a work light, or do you mean as an every day carry? In other words, would you consider carrying a Mag 3D, or are you looking for a personal size light?

Also, how are you going to be using this light? I'm wondering what types of things you are likely to illuminate - how far away, etc.

-john

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John N said:
When you say general purpose carry, do you mean as a work light, or do you mean as an every day carry? In other words, would you consider carrying a Mag 3D, or are you looking for a personal size light?

Also, how are you going to be using this light? I'm wondering what types of things you are likely to illuminate - how far away, etc.
-john

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I mean a personal size light that I could possibly throw in my pocket or wear on a belt and be somewhat concealable/not look like I'm some creep going to loot somewhere heh. Around E2e size I suppose, not larger than a minimag.

Mostly illuminate things likely within 20', possibly arm length away. It's not going to be used as a spotlight, but mostly general things within walking distance, not for spotting or searching in trees/back areas.

That is what I likely would use the truck light for. Emergency mostly but also for more of a flood/spotlight type thing from aprox 15-35' or so with a wider beam (wider meaning maybe 5' illuminated area at 20'? I don't have much to compare off of really..)

This inova X5T looks nice, but I'm having a hard time formulating whether it would be able to have a throw that long with a wide enough spread. I don't need to find dead bodies in wheat fields, but hell if it has the option /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

-Josh Y.

Ok, how about an E2 with KL1 head and the Pila 168S rechargable cells.

The E2 + KL1 is pretty efficent (better than the E1 + KL1 if I recall correctly), and I think the combo of regulation/LED would work best with the rechargables.

The other upside is that you could carry a few normal Li batteries as a backup in case your rechargables run out of umph.

-john

[ QUOTE ]
John N said:
Ok, how about an E2 with KL1 head and the Pila 168A rechargable cells.

The E2 + KL1 is pretty efficent (better than the E1 + KL1 if I recall correctly), and I think the combo of regulation/LED would work best with the rechargables.

The other upside is that you could carry a few normal Li batteries as a backup in case your rechargables run out of umph.

-john

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You're a bloody genius, thanks -- that's exactly what I was looking for. I have no problem carrying normal batteries or things of the sort, but purely only using them is something I did not wish for with such constant use /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

-Josh Y.

To add to John's post, if you get a E2O (Outdoorsman) instead of a E2e, it comes with the low output lamp assembly (LOLA), which still gives out very good throw for longer runtime. Then with a KL1, you can change the bezels and use the light for whichever the situation calls for. Altho I do suspect that you'll leave the KL1 on after a couple of tries... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I've been intermittently carrying around (for about a week)a G2 and a 6P w/ P61 lamp on my belt with different holsters (one is a removable Surefire holster and the other is the holster that came with the Garrity Ozark that I took the Clickie from and put it on my G2--- This holster worked good and I have to say I like carrying the G2, it's cheap and with the clickie mod, makes for the perfect holster/pocket light, but I prefer the holster. I was at a friend's house last night and he asked me about the light and couldn't believe how bright it was... but having a light on me for EDC has been fun, I will continue the habit---The E2E would be a good choice, I'm getting an X5T today to see what that is like, but I think I will prefer my Surefire, we'll see.

FWIW....the KL-1 driven by two 123 alkaline batteries will give you about 5 hours from full bright to 50% bright! See the Runtime Plots in the Reviews Forum for other combinations (using the UBH set).

The E2e should be more efficient than the E1e with the KL1. Buck regulation is generally more efficient than boost IIRC.

I think Roy refers to lithium 123s!

I've been EDC (every day carrying) an E2e/KL1 for a year and find it excellent. It runs full constant brightness for over 4 hours and reduced after that for several more, which I think is a good compromise of bright vs. runtime. I keep extra batteries and the incandescent head in my bag in case I need throw, but to be honest, it's too bright for most of my daily needs, and it only lasts about an hour on a set of batts. With the KL1, I use it often and batteries last me over a month. So I don't care much about the benefits of rechargeability in this application. I get shelf-life and full performance including cold weather. Surefire sells the batteries at their website for $15 a dozen. The LED should never blow like a bulb.

Some people like a smaller single cell light for pocketability like the E1e/KL1 or ARC-LS. Some people love the Surefire L4 5 watt LED which has a lot of light but little throw. But only an hour of full brightness runtime.

In an emergency, if your E2e/KL1 is half depleted and you have 2 extra batteries, you still have 6 hours of full brightness and several more hours of usable reduced light. And most CPFers will also carry a keychain LED light, too.

Tactical Warehouse is the only web vendor I know of that sells the E2e body with KL1 (no incandescent bezel), although having both bezels is kind of nice.

Hi Josh,

Welcome aboard. I don't think anyone has mentioned the L4 with Pila 168s rechargeable yet. It's an option that some people prefer. There's a small, but finite, chance you'll like it too.

This option is expensive: SF L4 ($120) + one Pila 168s Li-Ion battery ($31) + Pila charger ($45). Although it's a big initital outlay, you have a superior light with a battery that goes on and on and on. It's actually the least expensive if you'll be using the light a lot.

Paul

louie...the runtime plot was done with normal li 123 batteries. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif