The NEW H502 "Wet Poll" - Is Your H502 Waterproof?

Is your H502 Waterproof?


  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

Bolster

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Edit: Poll now closed. See post #29 for analysis.

Given we lost data on the previous "H502 Wet Poll," and given that I received several criticisms (with which I agree!) for setting up the poll badly, I propose we start over here. The objective is to see if there is a systematic leakage problem with the new H502, or if there's not a systematic leakage problem with H502.

This poll will not be anonymous as the previous one was--your username is attached. The purpose of this is to help reduce the number of "drive-by shootings" the poll may (or may not) be receiving. We should be able to match your vote to a post with a description (and hopefully a photograph) in the thread.

You get to determine how you test your light, of course, but many people dip the light in a glass of water, or take it into the shower. (One brave soul sent his through the washing machine and dryer!) The H502 is rated IPX8, and according to ZL's website it should survive 2 meters depth for 30 minutes. PLEASE DESCRIBE YOUR TEST, whatever it may be.

PHOTOS are STRONGLY ENCOURAGED. (I wish I could require them!) Photos help us verify real owners and real cases. (Anyone can just say they own an H502 and that it does or doesn't leak.) Ideally we should be able to match your vote to a photo of either (a) the light during the test or (b) the light after the test, showing it either dry or wet inside. The poll's open for two weeks. We can do another later if we like.

Also it would be interesting if you could list any bias you may have either toward or against ZL. Wouldn't it be interesting if fans found no leaks and detractors found leaks.

Finally, to both "fans" and "haters" of ZL: Please don't fabricate data one way or the other. We're trying to get a valid measure here. Thanks!
 
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Bolster

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I put my H502 in a glass of water for 15 minutes. The emitter was probably 1" below the surface of the water. I had no water ingress, so mine survived a shallow dunk. The test was weeks ago. The light continues to work as new and gets used regularly.

zl-dunk.jpg


During the test there were a few bubbles that appeared on the light (you can see them in the photo), but on examination I noticed they came from air trapped in the cooling fins that was coalescing into bubbles.

Full disclosure: My BIAS, to the extent I can identify it: I currently own 5 ZL headlamps and have given 2 as gifts to family so by definition I'm a "fan" because I've purchased multiples. I have not had any leaks or fails on these 7. (I also own Spark, Petzl, Irix, Energizer. The only reason I don't own SF is because I don't use 123 cells) My postings here on CPF often reference the water ingress failures that ZL had on the early H501s (which I think was a major failing and largely contributed to CPF discussions of how ZLs are unreliable) and I think it would be deplorable if ZL didn't learn from that mistake. I also criticize ZL for refusing to fit a threaded bezel to their lights, and for spotty communications and slow customer service. So I guess that also makes me a "critic." So I'm a "fan/critic" of ZL. I have no association with any headlamp company.
 
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Ezeriel

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I just opened the battery chamber and sucked on the lens of the light.... not waterproof at all.
 

Bolster

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I just opened the battery chamber and sucked on the lens of the light.... not waterproof at all.

Now I realize I needed two more response options: "I did not get my H502 wet and it is not waterproof," and to balance that, "I did not get my H502 wet and it is waterproof." I appreciate that you explained your methodology in the thread, thanks. (I foresee yet another poll: "Did you suck on your H502 and get air?")

I think maybe we count your vote as a "theoretical fail." Because in theory, if you can get air through the lens area, you would expect leakage at some depth or force, once external pressure is equivalent to what your mouth can generate. Fair enough?

Again, thanks for explaining your test in the thread. We need that from everyone who posts a pass or fail.
 
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Bolster

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I just opened the battery chamber and sucked on the lens of the light.... not waterproof at all.

I've been pondering this test. How much suction can a human generate? The research was difficult because it almost always ended in someone making an oral sex joke, but I finally found some data.

This response says -4 psig, which would be about 10 psi. This post says 7psi.

How much pressure is at 2 meters depth, for which the ZL is rated (assume sea level)?

0 meters is 14.7 psi, and 2 meters is 17.6 psi, the difference being 2.9 psi.

Someone check my math, but it appears human mouth suction can generate the inverse (ie, suck vs blow) of maybe 3x the pressure of being underwater at 2m. The implication would be that a human might be able to approximate a brief 6m test by sucking, if the assumptions and calcs are correct. (...and 2m makes my ears hurt!)
 
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climberkid

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I placed my H502 in a Nalgene bottle with room temp water on M1 for 20 minutes. Tada! No leakage. Not sure how else to try it but I feel like I could be a little more rough. Maybe the shower test.

I will post pictures when I get wifi.

-Alex
 

Ezeriel

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Now I realize I needed two more response options: "I did not get my H502 wet and it is not waterproof," and to balance that, "I did not get my H502 wet and it is waterproof." I appreciate that you explained your methodology in the thread, thanks. (I foresee yet another poll: "Did you suck on your H502 and get air?")

I think maybe we count your vote as a "theoretical fail." Because in theory, if you can get air through the lens area, you would expect leakage at some depth or force, once external pressure is equivalent to what your mouth can generate. Fair enough?

Again, thanks for explaining your test in the thread. We need that from everyone who posts a pass or fail.

yeah mine was a total fail... and the most I could ever blow on one of the tire gauges was 4 psi.. and I was no where near putting out that kind of pressure, lol

it's harder to drink a McDonald's shake than is it to suck air through my H502



and before anyone asks, I just superglued the lens down, and yes I know I should have sent it back, and yes that is how zebralight gets feedback.. blah blah blah

I-forget-who, sent theirs back.. a 6 week wait
 

Esko

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The H502 is rated IPX8, and according to ZL's website it should survive 2 meters depth for 30 minutes.

As I described in the lost thread, this is not IPX8, it is only IPX7 (there is no time limit for IPX8).

I had some comments about the validity of the old tread but didn't have time to answer before the forum crashed and the thread was lost. I guess they might be unnecessary now.
 

Ezeriel

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quoting from zebralight's site, for the H502, under -Main Features and Specifications- it says

"Waterproof to IPX8 (2 meters, 30 minutes)"
 

Esko

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(there is no time limit for IPX8)

quoting from zebralight's site, for the H502, under -Main Features and Specifications- it says

"Waterproof to IPX8 (2 meters, 30 minutes)"

It does say that, but it is wrong. IPX8 is for continuous submerging in manufacturer specified depth. If it can stand only 30 minutes, it can't be IPX8. It should be specified as IPX7, which is 1 meter for 30 minutes.

Wikipedia
 

Grizzman

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My H502D is still waterproof, or at least to the extent that I've tested it. I filled up my 32 oz Nalgene water bottle with luke warm water, and dropped in the light, which was turned onto the M1 setting. No bubbles were present coming from the light, but the head's fins definitely trap and hold onto bubbles quite well.

I turned the bottle onto it's side so I could roll the light back and forth along the bottle's side from bottom to top, and opposite. This knocked off almost all the bubbles attached to the light's exterior. I then did some quick inversions of the bottle for more light agitation, and sat it down for about 20 minutes.

I picked up the bottle, and shook it up and down, with a 12" stroke length at a speed of....ya, whatever. I shook it to the point that it was bouncing off the top and bottom of the bottle with more force than it would likely ever experience out in reality.

Result......no leaks, lens fogging, etc.

The only way to really prove that any of what I typed is true, would be a 20 minute video showing me doing it, and that would be way too much effort.

In short, it's waterproof, and now very clean.

Grizz
 

sadboy

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I can attest my H502d is waterproof based on my second attempt at a shallow dunk test. As I stated in the previous thread, my H502d functioned perfectly underwater and meets my particular needs as a waterproof flashlight should. This time around, the only observation I can add is that I'm not sure about some of the material's resilience to rust (in particular, the inner part of the rim surrounding the button). In any case, it's negligible. I always take extra measures whenever I dry my flashlights.

In short, for me, my H502d has no problem getting wet.
 

Philonous

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Stuck it in a glass of water for about 30 minutes, pressed switch, no issues.
 

Zeruel

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Dunked it, clicked on, switched modes, swished it around. No water seepage.

Blew hard into the switch recess with tail cap removed. No air seepage.
 

Bolster

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I tried the "suck" test around the lens and got air -- noticeably more air with the cap off than on (got air both ways, due to insufficient lip seal I'm guessing--seems I get a little air on anything I try, so that must be my lip seal).

On the other hand
, I did a 15 minute dunk test with no issues. So now I have questions about whether getting air on the suck test should mean an automatic fail. According to my calculation above, the "suck" test appears it could be 3x more severe, pressure-wise, than Zebralight's 2m standard. And then there's the issue of lip seal, too.

(And it's also possible I "blew the seals" by sucking on it so hard! Does ZL warranty for sucking too hard on your light? LOL!!)
 
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eh4

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I wish that I had an H502 to contribute a test result with, but I do have a few comments that might be of use.

The ZL website states that the H502 is made with the battery compartment "completely sealed" from the electronics.

On my H51 the switch will click down just from low air pressure during the suck test and stay depressed until I let the pressure equalize, kinda hurts my lips a bit. From that I'd bet that it's good for a couple or 5 meters of water for any reasonable time period.

Also, if anyone wants to do one, two or more meter testing then consider using pvc pipe. Cut length, cap bottom, set vertically, fill with hose.
 
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Bolster

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Anybody remember the final score on the survey that got wiped out by the server crash? Wasn't it 4 fail out of 11?

Esko -- question -- are you sure "continuous submersion" doesn't include 30 minutes? At first read I thought "continuous submerging" meant basically it could stay underwater forever, but after thinking about this, that can't be so; virtually nothing would pass that. I'm wondering if it just means uninterrupted submersion at something greater than IPX7, for a time and depth as specified by the mfgr. I don't know, just asking. But as I read the link posted above, and parse it like Bill Clinton could parse "it depends on what the meaning of is, is" I can see a way to read the IP ratings so that 30min @ 2m (which is what ZL claims) > IPX7, because that's 30min @ 1m. Seems some wiggle room here for an IPX8 rating. How about 30min and one second at 1m plus 1mm, what would that be? Who's to say that 30min couldn't be considered "continuous"? Not being argumentative, just confused by the sloppy definition of IPX8. If 30 min isn't 'continuous,' is 31 minutes?

Given the ambiguity, I think maybe ZL should be claiming "IPX7 Plus." But I'd like to know the minimum standard to claim IPX8.
 
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Esko

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Anybody remember the final score on the survey that got wiped out by the server crash? Wasn't it 4 fail out of 11?

That was the last I saw, and before the escalated discussion about the validity, it was 3 and 10 I think. There had been 3 described failures in different threads so IMHO the the most important information came through the number of passed and reported lights. The numbers were low of course and I doubt they will be much higher in new thread.

Esko -- question -- are you sure "continuous submersion" doesn't include 30 minutes? At first read I thought "continuous submerging" meant basically it could stay underwater forever, but after thinking about this, that can't be so; virtually nothing would pass that. I'm wondering if it just means uninterrupted submersion at something greater than IPX7, for a time and depth as specified by the mfgr. I don't know, just asking. But as I read the link posted above, and parse it like Bill Clinton could parse "it depends on what the meaning of is, is" I can see a way to read the IP ratings so that 30min @ 2m (which is what ZL claims) > IPX7, because that's 30min @ 1m. Seems some wiggle room here for an IPX8 rating. How about 30min and one second at 1m plus 1mm, what would that be? Who's to say that 30min couldn't be considered "continuous"? Not being argumentative, just confused by the sloppy definition of IPX8. If 30 min isn't 'continuous,' is 31 minutes?

A fair question... So, I went ahead and checked the actual standard (its number is 60529). The descriptions for "characteristic number 8" are really short, shorter than the descriptions for other numbers. Which is due to it's nature, it seems. The standard states that the conditions are based on agreements between manufacturer and user, but they must be more severe than for IPX7. Here is some short quotes:

Test means:

Immersion tank
Water-level: by agreement
Duration of test:

by agreement

Well, thank you Wikipedia. According to the current Wiki article, there should be no time specified. However, in actual standard, manufacturer can specify it. So, the description in Wikipedia was wrong, and naturally, I was wrong, too. Sorry. The IPX8 rating that Zebralight provides is valid.

However, once we started to check the actual standard, I want to present one more short quote for IPX8 (emphasis mine and the clarification in brackets mine):

Unless there is a relevant product standard, the test conditions are subject to agreement between manufacturer and user,
but they shall be more severe than those prescribed in 14.2.7 (IPX7) and they shall take account of the condition that the
enclosure will be continuously immersed in actual use.

So, unless there is a flashlight specific standard that says otherwise, IP Code standard states that the equipment must be usable in said depth. If you use your headlamp under water, how do you do it? By letting it stand still at the bottom of tank (which is the test method for IPX7)? No, you turn it on and off, adjust brightness, move around, look up, look down, etc. So, considering that, IPX8 is really more demanding than IPX7.
 

Bolster

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A fair question...

Ah. Thanks for the research. Personally I am dubious of all Wikipedia entries, I suspect they're largely sourced by unemployed advocates of various stripes. Wikipedia has been "fully penetrated" as far as I'm concerned, and many have been the times that Wikipedia has led me astray.

There had been 3 described failures in different threads...

The three described failures... Q8iGunner (shower), DavidT (I don't remember how it failed, dunk maybe). Who was the third? Looking other old threads, not finding the third...

I found another report of "pass" in the ZLH502 thread not reported here. Jacklight said "my H502 survived a trip through the washer and dryer in my shorts pocket..."
 
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