Philosophical Musings Ch.1: Throw

I've been cruising these boards for some 7 months now and my perspective on illumination and lighting tools has changed dramatically over this time. One subject that is discussed often and usually with reverence is "the long throw." Lights are often judged by how well they illuminate compact regions at a great distance. When one reflects upon this, however, the concept of "long throw" (LT) becomes more and more abstracted from reality. It becomes a superlative with no other function than its own existence.

Why do I say this? In martial arts as in other realms of managed conflict, the concept of zone of action or potential influence is integral. That is, threat level varies as a function of distance of separation. This extends beyond just threat level to general ability to "affect." In light of this, lighting that extends beyond say 20' is of no greater value than lighting that extends only to 20' if that is the range of your personal protective space (PPS). Now granted, the PPS in reality does not have a rigid cutoff. It has a fuzzy, fluctuating border that adapts to the situation but I can think of no realistic cases where it extends out to 300'.

But one might argue that attention also varies as a function of distance. That is, a rowdy group may only merit scant attention if at the other end of the block but you may scan and notice features, details, sounds, movement and other information if you must walk by them at close range, just to be safe. So by extension, if one hears noise in the far distance, then it would be useful to be able to see that far to determine the appropriate attention level. But this doesn't explain why many of us who live and function in generally low threat-level environments would then need such range.

To understand why the phenomenon of LT is so compelling, one must draw parallels to other realms of human endeavor. In particular, endeavors of remote exploration. Shortwave radio, space exploration, astronomy, archaeology, time capsuling. All these endeavors seek to either affect or learn about something or someone at a distance removed from us in either time or space. In essence, it is man stretching out with more than his hands to encompass more than his corporeal grasp. I believe it is this compulsion to extend our influence and in effect extend ourselves that drives the obsession with LT. A beam that reaches out 300' is an extension of us, or our ability to see, to sense and to act and react. It makes us greater by making us more than that which our fingers can touch.

Wilkey

So what you are saying is:

"A man's reach should exceed his grasp or else what's Heaven for?"
-Robert Browning

Nice post, sir. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

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Ginseng said:
...When one reflects upon this, however, the concept of "long throw" (LT) becomes more and more abstracted from reality. It becomes a superlative with no other function than its own existence....To understand why the phenomenon of LT is so compelling, one must draw parallels to other realms of human endeavor. In particular, endeavors of remote exploration...these endeavors seek to either affect or learn about something or someone at a distance removed from us in either time or space. In essence, it is man stretching out with more than his hands to encompass more than his corporeal grasp. I believe it is this compulsion to extend our influence and in effect extend ourselves that drives the obsession with LT. A beam that reaches out 300' is an extension of us, or our ability to see, to sense and to act and react. It makes us greater by making us more than that which our fingers can touch.

Wilkey

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Wilkey,

One of the most eloquent and penetrating musings on this subject that I've seen. I had posted on it a while back from a narrower point of view:

I believe that fear of the dark exists in our "genetic memory" and that the quest for light, regardless of how it is manifested, has its roots in that fear. Man was helpless in the dark, prey to many natural enemies. Bright light issuing from small, portable devices thus enables the projection of personal power, the neutralizing of helplessness and the overcoming of that genetically based fear.

I like the way you tie it into "other realms of human endeaver", I think you've hit it on the head:

"...I believe it is this compulsion to extend our influence and in effect extend ourselves that drives the obsession with LT. A beam that reaches out 300' is an extension of us, or our ability to see, to sense and to act and react. It makes us greater by making us more than that which our fingers can touch."

I think that's it.

Brightnorm

Dan,
I thought I'd dirty up Browning's with a little excess verbiage. I've always been a bit of a windbag /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif BTW, is that the MadMan project in your avatar?

Norm,
The fear of the darkness, more to the point, what may be waiting for us in the darkness is an even more primal emotion and you address it well. But why "small"? Couldn't the devices be as large as a suitcase and still be functional? I feel that the smaller the device, the more hidden or integrated it can become into our own physical being. Thus, while a 4D torch is obviously a tool and one that is for us but not us, a finger sized light is a more seamless, more unclear extension of our "personal power." An implanted forehead LED that runs off of bioelectric energy would be even more indistinguishable from that which is originally us. The mystic third eye and vision.

Wilkey

Although this isn't the point of Ginseng's philosophy (or is it?), I know that I can't outrun a bear. I also know that given a good enough head start, I can probably outrun a bear. That head start is probably in the neighborhood of 75 yards. For this reason, I could possibly justify a 300' throw.

I just couldn't resist. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

You don't need to out run the bear just the other fellow with you.

[ QUOTE ]
Ginseng said:

To understand why the phenomenon of LT is so compelling, one must draw parallels to other realms of human endeavor. In particular, endeavors of remote exploration. Shortwave radio, space exploration, astronomy, archaeology, time capsuling. All these endeavors seek to either affect or learn about something or someone at a distance removed from us in either time or space. In essence, it is man stretching out with more than his hands to encompass more than his corporeal grasp. I believe it is this compulsion to extend our influence and in effect extend ourselves that drives the obsession with LT. A beam that reaches out 300' is an extension of us, or our ability to see, to sense and to act and react. It makes us greater by making us more than that which our fingers can touch.

Wilkey

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Wilkey,

Nice! Very nice.

I don't know about others, but the "fear of the dark" phenomenon does not apply very often or very well for me. I love to walk in the total darkness, even in back fields and woods. There is something calming and compelling and rejuvenating in it. I admitt up front that this is in a situation of known and familiar territory. But still. I used to teach astronomy lab in grad school, and there was something even more magical spending three hours in near total darkness, with only the occasional red light, looking up at the stars. To think I got paid to look through telescopes and help others look through telescopes! Some days I wish I could have stayed in school forever /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif (but that doesn't last long because I remember reality. Alas, alack).

On the other hand, if I'm going to ruin my good night vision with a flashlight, I want to be able to SEE! It's not that I need the "threat identification" of anything. Although, come to think of it, I DO like to know if there is a dairy bull in a field before I slip under the electric wire. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Anyway, the motivation for long throw IS one of exploration and the enjoyment that comes with being able to monitor and contol reality. That is, IT'S DARN GOOD FUN! Perhaps it's a similar feeling to having a highpowered rifle with a good scope on it, without the noise and destruction of course.

But as long as we're musing, perhaps the fear of the dark does come into it more than I thought at first glance, for when I turn on a powerful light in a dark field, I have created a sharp distinction between the lighted area and the sea of darkness all around, and if I'm going to do that, I feel a need to have that lighted area be as large and long as possible.

That's why LT needs to be balanced against useable illumination. A LASER is a very long throw device, yet it is practically useless to see by. Throw can be overdone. On the other hand, even a bare lightbulb, which radiates a total spherical flood is eminently useful. So perhaps LT always entails a general loss of usefulness, and is only desireable for particular situations. Practicality aside, LT is an exercise in extremes, like a race car. You wouldn't want a LT as your only flashlight, but it's sure fun to have one around in addition to your general purpose and EDC lights.

Wilkey, thanks so much for starting this thread. It's very enjoyable. I loved reading your musings.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gifThis may sound stupid.
But to me as for the LT; is kind of like knowledge when you can see further the more you know.
I think we all look for more knowledge.
Which also is why I think so many of us are drawn to CPF.

Not nearly a philosophicle or as elegant as the rest, but what I think.

Amusing and indeed interesting, but I'd say that you may have allowed your own uses and situations to limit your definition of 'useful'. I'm a boater and a diver, and both of these are great examples of critical Long Throw applications.

It's not at all unusual for a boater to be looking for a buoy or marker in the dark at distances of 500' or more, and an LT spotlight is critical for this type of use. I also carry an ArcAAA for finding things onboard, so I agree that my 1mCP spotlight and 2D laser-spot Pelicans aren't the end-all-be-all, but I seriously dispute the suggestion that they are mostly of psychological use.

I'll just assume that the argument for tight long throw lights for underwater use and/or firefighters (or anyone else working in fog/smoke/mist) are well understood, and not go into them further.

Thanks for your thoughts!

For me this is like using a telescope v. binoculars.

It's a heck of alot easier to aquire and to track a moving target with binocs then a telescope.

More often than not. binoculars with their wide field are much more useful. But there are a few occasions when a telescope is needed.

I would guess 90% of users, never really need throw, but it is that primal fear that something is out there in the darkness.

Spending a night alone, out in the woods with only an ARC-AAA and no fire might be an interesting experience.


GregR

[ QUOTE ]
Deanster said:
Amusing and indeed interesting, but I'd say that you may have allowed your own uses and situations to limit your definition of 'useful'. I'm a boater and a diver, and both of these are great examples of critical Long Throw applications.

It's not at all unusual for a boater to be looking for a buoy or marker in the dark at distances of 500' or more, and an LT spotlight is critical for this type of use. I also carry an ArcAAA for finding things onboard, so I agree that my 1mCP spotlight and 2D laser-spot Pelicans aren't the end-all-be-all, but I seriously dispute the suggestion that they are mostly of psychological use.

I'll just assume that the argument for tight long throw lights for underwater use and/or firefighters (or anyone else working in fog/smoke/mist) are well understood, and not go into them further.

Thanks for your thoughts!

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Yes! Good points and well taken. Even so, some might classify these as "particular" use applications, as opposed to "general". But I'm not one of those people. You have convinced me with these examples that LT is more than an exercise in psychology and power. For some it is a necessity. Actually, I wasn't kidding about the dairy bull example above. You REALLY DON'T want to be in the same field as one of them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif Fortunately very few farmers keep dairy bulls around anymore. They are all in special artificial fertilization labs these days. Wow, is that OT or what? Sorry . . .

I am sorry. I thought it was philosophy not phycology being discussed.
Nor did I mean to offend any one.

Excellent points, all. I'm pleasantly surprised to see the contemplative side of the CPF community here.

Jim,
I wish we had better quality dark here in New England. Even on the darkest new moon nights, there's a constant hazy glow around the horizon. Dark enough to have some serious torch fun but not to truly enjoy the heavens. As to the magical qualities of the dark, it is qualitatively different from light and from absence of light. A true, deep darkness is enveloping. It is more palpable, physical than the mere lack of light in an empty space. As to creating a deep lighted region through LT, there is also a mesmerizing quality about the alignment of one's focused attention and the razor sharp beam of light. It's almost as if it enhances concentration, attention and focus making the experience even more heightened. Whoo, I feel the rush just thinking about it.

mut,
You are quite eloquent in your conciseness. It is about penetrating farther to know more. Distance is in fact interchangeable and equivalent to time as Beretta and Einstein pointed out.

Deanster,
You are correct in your assumption. There is a practical requirement for almost any condition one can think of. Long and bright, wide and bright, short and dim, white, yellow, red, flashing. I am seeking to explore the psychological/philosophical underpinnings of a particular fascination with illumination.

Wilkey

[ QUOTE ]
Ginseng said:
... I feel that the smaller the device, the more hidden or integrated it can become into our own physical being...An implanted forehead LED that runs off of bioelectric energy would be even more indistinguishable from that which is originally us. The mystic third eye and vision.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes!

[ QUOTE ]
Ginseng said:
An implanted forehead LED that runs off of bioelectric energy would be even more indistinguishable from that which is originally us. The mystic third eye and vision.

Wilkey

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only on CPF!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

i think it's apparent why we find so much comfort in having a reliable light or 200.. and you've already touched on it.

[ QUOTE ]
Ginseng said:
Excellent points, all. I'm pleasantly surprised to see the contemplative side of the CPF community here.

Jim,
I wish we had better quality dark here in New England. Even on the darkest new moon nights, there's a constant hazy glow around the horizon. Dark enough to have some serious torch fun but not to truly enjoy the heavens. As to the magical qualities of the dark, it is qualitatively different from light and from absence of light. A true, deep darkness is enveloping. It is more palpable, physical than the mere lack of light in an empty space. As to creating a deep lighted region through LT, there is also a mesmerizing quality about the alignment of one's focused attention and the razor sharp beam of light. It's almost as if it enhances concentration, attention and focus making the experience even more heightened. Whoo, I feel the rush just thinking about it.

Wilkey


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Wilkey, you are very eloquent and insightful. It is a joy to read such crafted statements. Not the norm with most internet and e-mail communication.

BTW, I am from Maine and now live in New York, so I am almost in New England. But I do live in the country, and on overcast nights it gets fairly dark--not pitch black, and not as good for astronomy as New Mexico, but still pretty dark, no major cities nearby, few to no street lights, etc. Are you in the country, town or city?

p.s. thanks for the help on getting started in incan mods. Very appreciated.

Wilkey,

I'm with JS on this. Very nice read. (It's good to have Thomas back again.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Paul

Well,

I think that about wraps up the musings on throw. I've read some insightful comments here and the discussion has helped me to clarify and better understand my own, sometimes conflicted, feelings regarding the LT. Now when I reach for my ultra-throw torches, I'll still thrill to what can be touched by my light. But I'll also relish the mystery of what lies just a shade beyond or beside my view. Perhaps some things are more real if left unlit.

Thanks so much for sharing your musings /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I've truly enjoyed this.

Wilkey

Wow you guys get really deep on this subject. I think the old HR MGR may call you in for a drug screening test in the AM./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif Heck, I just use my torches to run my dogs with on the Island I live on and yep it can get pretty pitch black out here.

Hi guys,

I really enjoy reading this thread on LT. I live in Singapore and have been visiting this rural island known as Pulau Ubin. It is full of trees and wild boars. In the night, it can be pitch dark to the extend you can't even see your own fingers. That is fine with me as all Singaporean males are required by law to serve a 2 years national service in the Army, after which we will be transferred to the reserve force for another 13 years. Through my stint in the Army, we were taught to move in total darkness, field discipline is the word. Somehow, we had developed this immunity to fear of the darkness.

Nevertheless, I still had great fun with torches. To me, it is just plain fun. Having the ability to see in the dark is not important but seeing the beam of light emanating from a powerful flashlight is awesome! In tropical countries like Singapore, it can get very humid and foggy at night in the jungle. With my Surefire turned on it is like holding a light sabre in your hands. Wow! LT may be to some here an important issue but to me I chose Surefire because of a balance between wide coverage and medium throw, and on top of that pure power.

Many of my friends could not understand why I invested so much in a Surefire but after camping with me in Pulau Ubin most of them were hooked.

That is my point of view. I have also been curious to know why some people are addicted to torches and after reading through this thread started by Wilkey and studying all the contribution by many good folks here in CPF, it sort of sum up my hypothesis that it is the fear of the darkness that drives this craze in many to purchase torches.

Regards,

Andy Ho