Total Lumen Shootout: LED/Incan/HID): 75 - 6,000 Lumens (Ceiling Bounce Shots)

I just got a light that for the first time in while really knocked my socks off (Fire Foxes FF3). So, I thought I'd round-up a few of the brighter lights of mine and my flashaholic friends (parkschr, Brewdog2001) and see how it compared to them relative to total lumens. Stated or estimated lumens really doesn't do it for me, I really like to see it with my eyes. The problem is, our eyes quickly adjust to the dim or bright light, and you don't truly get the true impact of the output difference. The best way I have found to see the difference in total output is using a locked exposure and do some ceiling bounce shots.

So, I set up a shoot last night using the below locked settings in manual mode on my Panasonic DMC-ZS7 camera:

• ISO: 100
• Exposure Time: 1 Second
• White Balance: Daylight
• F-stop: f/4
• Max aperture: 3.44

The lights:



Unfortunately my current brightest LED is a 3.5A XM-L by nailbender, so nothing above 1,000 to include in these....

So here are the results (ordered by perceived dimmest to brightest)...















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Surprises from this this shootout:

• The older 3x XR-E M2XC4 (~675 lumen) is brighter than my ~850 lumen 3.5A XM-L
• The Mag458, although painfully bright and easily twice as bright as the solid 2,000 lumen Mag09, still does not have the output of the FF3.
• The Fire Foxes FF3 = ridiculous:
  • Looks to be twice as bright as the ~3,500 lumen 35W POB
  • Handily stomped the brightest hand-held light anyone I knew had - the Mag458 w/ 5x 26,500 IMR @ 4.15v
  • The FF3 is claimed be 40W, but some suspect it is pushing more than that. Based on these comparisons, my guess is that it is, and it is probably more in the 5,000 lumen range - scientifically speaking..

Thanks for posting this (& your other FF3) thread(s) ... the "pocket sun" effect of this light is amazing to see

... and what's the CCT on that POB HID ? :green:

Re: Relative Output Comparison (LED/Incan/HID): 75 - 11,000 Lumens (Ceiling Bounce Sh

archimedes said:

Thanks for posting this (& your other FF3) thread(s) ... the "pocket sun" effect of this light is amazing to see

... and what's the CCT on that POB HID ? :green:

Click to expand...

Thanks. The POB has a cold tint, but I'm not sure of the exact CCT. My guess is around 6500K.

Re: Relative Output Comparison (LED/Incan/HID): 75 - 11,000 Lumens (Ceiling Bounce Sh

RichS said:

The Mag458, although painfully bright and easily twice as bright as the solid 2,000 lumen Mag09, is most definitely not 11,000 lumens

Click to expand...

That is nice work.

Comment on safety. Those Osram superbulbs can ignite things like bedding within seconds. I hope your tailstanding Mag was stable.

Re: the Mag458, the 11,000 lumen figure is way too optimistic. To get to 11,000 lumens, you'd have to deliver about 20.5V to the bulb, based on Lux Luthor's data. And that uses the extrapolated lumens estimates apparently using the equation from AWR's Hotrater and starting from the Osram specs for 12V drive. So right off, I think it's pretty clear that the estimates are bulb lumens, so you aren't going to get close 11,000 OTF lumens. In addition, the 26500 cells aren't going to deliver 20.5V to the bulb, so even the 11,000 bulb lumen estimate is too high.

The 458 draws roughly 10A. At that load, a 26500 will sag to about 3.75V within 1 min. How long did your Mag458 run before you took the ceiling bounce photo?

5x26500 would deliver about 18.75V to the 458 bulb, assuming 3.75V per cell, and no other sources of parasitic resistance loss. Referencing Lux Luthor's data again, the extrapolated bulb output is between about 8200 and 8900 lumens. The estimated output based on actual lux measurements is between 5900 and 6300 lumens. Take say 2/3 of these numbers to estimate the OTF lumens. The output estimate based on actual lux measurements thus gives an OTF output of about 4000 lumens. The extrapolated estimate gives an OTF output of about 5500-6000 lumens.

Re: Relative Output Comparison (LED/Incan/HID): 75 - 11,000 Lumens (Ceiling Bounce Sh

Thanks for the expert analysis on the Mag458 drive considerations Justin. I did take the pic about 10 seconds after turn-on intentionally to measure the output before much voltage sag. Even with this, I'd still say that your ~6,000 lumen estimate seems much more realistic based on the comparison.

OP has been updated.

Re: Relative Output Comparison (LED/Incan/HID): 75 - 11,000 Lumens (Ceiling Bounce Sh

Justin Case said:

That is nice work.

Comment on safety. Those Osram superbulbs can ignite things like bedding within seconds. I hope your tailstanding Mag was stable.

Click to expand...

Thats one thing I can't understand about my Mag656 via 7x26650's (using FM's 3" head). Won't set a damn thing on fire, but it'll sure cook bugs!

Haven't tried it with a lower wattage bulb, to see if that will collimate the beam better, though (656 is almost pure flood, but a good amount of throw).

Edit: Just tried it on cardboard with my 100 watt bulb, and it started burning in under 3 seconds... I guess I was using the wrong type of paper!!! That's what I get for trying to use white paper *facepalm*

Re: Relative Output Comparison (LED/Incan/HID): 75 - 11,000 Lumens (Ceiling Bounce Sh

Great beamshots! I suspect that the POB35W is indeed a 35W input, just that it has a higher color temp, which gives it lower efficiency. With HIDs, the lower the temp, the higher the efficiency right till the 3000K mark. The FF3 clearly isn't 4000 llumens though, 5000 lumens is more like it, with the efficiency of most 4300K HIDs around 120 lumen/watt and the input power of around 42W.