Help me add cornering lamps to my car

My car does not have cornering lamps. Hoping that I can find a lighting package that is bright enough (but I don't know how many watts that should be) & flat enough to glue onto the fender (so I just drill small hole for the wire, instead of insetting the assembly with a large cutout).

I'll have to use a relay attached to the turn signal circuit, which will hold the lamps on until the blinker circuit goes off.

It's not as simple as being bright enough; there are specific photometric requirements for them. It is not very likely at all that there is a simple surface mount solution, or that one can make such a thing. Attaching one from another car might be workable, so long as it is mounted such that the assembly has the same spacial orientation on the car it's being fitted to as it was moved from, including height off the ground.

It's not a question of "passing some inspection", it's a matter of vehicle lights being regulated as safety devices because that's what they are. You don't get to just "decide" whatever light you choose is a cornering light because you want to. You will please adjust your attitude immediately if you wish to continue this thread; Rule 11 of this board prohibits advocating or discussing illegal activity.

HI CPF Automotive Experts!

(this is my first post!)

On a related note:

Growing up, my parents 92 Buick LeSabre had a cornering lamp that came on with the turn signal, illuminating the area of the turn quite well. I remember learning to drive in that car and being impressed with that feature. I believe some other full size GM and other cars in the early 90's had this feature as well, but was removed in the late 90's (for example, a 92 Olds 98 had it but the 97, with the restyled (lower profile) headlamp assembly didn't). Any idea why it seems to have fallen out of favor in the last decade and a half? Perhaps it took up too much room in the headlamp assembly?

Actually, cornering lamps are growing in popularity lately. A lot of European cars have them now (Mercedes, Audi...), often integrated into the fog lamp or headlamp assembly. The cornering light in these cars isn't necessarily the outermost compartment; often it's inboard of other lighting compartments, projecting its beam across the other functions. The reason why they're resurging in popularity is that the worldwide (formerly "European" or "ECE") regulations used everywhere except North America were amended some years ago to permit the cornering lamp function. It was previously not generally allowed outside America and Japan. The main key difference between American and international cornering light regs is that the international reg permits the cornering lamps to operate only if the vehicle is going less than 40 kph (25 mph).

It's not very difficult to put together the control circuit for retrofitting cornering lamps so they operate like factory items (come on with the turn signal, remain lit for several seconds after the turn signal cancels). The key piece of kit is an "off delay" timer relay such as this one.

As for what lamps to use: you'd need something with a broad beam and tight control of light above horizontal. A flood or spot type of beam would not be acceptable—too much upward light causes glare danger to other drivers and excessive backscatter if you are driving in fog, snow, or rain, and interferes with other drivers' ability to see your turn signal and/or side marker. A small H3 fog lamp such as a Bosch Scout equipped with a 27w H3 bulb (Narva 48314 or equivalent), aimed with its cutoff about 0.5°*below horizontal, would be dandy.

You know, I was just about to mention that the cornering lights on my 1978 Saab 99 Turbo had a ribbed lens like a traditional fog light. They used an ordinary 1156 bulb. I didn't even realize one could find H3 bulbs below 35 watts. That's good to know. I think a number of people use fog lights as conspicuity lights on motorcycles, and they often have very small charging systems.

In not sure why the "internationals" would worry about the cornering light operating at speeds above 25mph, given the short range of a cornering light, but speed switches are certainly available. Heck, that same old '78 Saab had a throttle solenoid that prevented the butterfly from going completely closed above a predetermined speed; it was some sort of emission control feature.

I think cornering lights are a great idea, so long as they don't blind anyone at night.

The 40kph threshhold speed is arguable, but I don't disagree with their idea behind a maximum speed for cornering lights: they aren't really helpful above low speeds, and they don't want the cornering lights causing glare to other drivers on motorways (freeways) when the driver activates the turn signal to indicate a lane change.

lumen aeternum, your fourth post in this thread has been deleted, because it violated rules #4 and #8. All posters, including you, are required to behave themselves in accordance with the rules of this forum. If you continue to violate them, you will likely find yourself taking an involuntary time-out from the board.

One doesn't find much when searching for surface mounted cornering lamps. Surface mounted backup lights are out there. But I'm not sure how you'd tell ahead of time if they would do the job of a cornering lamp or if they'd throw too much glare out there.

Also, there are various "work lights" available for service vehicles, some fairly small and meant to be built into or mounted onto the body. But again, they may be too "floody" for a cornering lamp.

Word of friendly advice: Getting into a p***ing match with a forum moderator does not help get one's point across. This forum is quite strict about not advocating anything illegal. Nobody really believes that a thread titled "Help me add cornering lamps to my car" is suddenly and magically about only private property and offroad use after the OP gets called on Rule 11. If you're working on a vehicle that can be driven on public roads, we'll assume it will be. There are plenty of options while keeping it legal.

Many cars have mounted MANY kinds of cornering lights over the years. You may not want to rush to the junkyard for the cornering lights from a 1967 Eldorado or a 1978 Saab, but there may well be something out there that will fit with minimal work. Frankly, I think the idea of small foglights aimed outward a bit and wired as cornering lights is a good one.

Whichever way you decide to go about it though, you will quickly realize LEDs require more protection than you bargained for and the automotive power rail isn't as stable was one may think. If theres anything that destroys LED drivers quickly, its the car.
If your car did not have corner lights as part of its design, I'm curious on where do you intend to put them, assuming of course they are DOT compliant.

I repeat - no such law applies to private property & off road.

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Yes, this is true, but this will only remain true if the car is limited to being on private property and off road for the rest of its life. The minute you are on federal roads everything applies. If offroad only is what this car is for why not go for something bigger? like a rack mounted floodlight?

lumen aeternum, your fifth post in this thread has been deleted, because it violated rules #4 and #8. Sassing back to moderators isn't allowed, and neither is flaming or baiting. Stop it now. This is your last warning; next time you will face consequences. Your options are to behave yourself in accordance with the rules of this forum, or to discontinue participation here.

What about the Hella DynaView Evo2.
Surely they've tested them etc.

I think they can still be had, but they might be hard to find - not to mention expensive.

Hey, I'm all for steerable lights, like the center light on the Tucker or the third pair of lights on the European version of the Citroen-Maserati SM, but I think the initial request here was for some sort of relatively simple, low budget "stick onto the fender" cornering light. I think a pair of small fogs and some control wiring from the turn signals may be the simplest approach. Not as cool as the DynaView Evo2, but still functional.

As stated by Scheinwerfermann: "It's not very difficult to put together the control circuit for retrofitting cornering lamps so they operate like factory items (come on with the turn signal, remain lit for several seconds after the turn signal cancels). The key piece of kit is an "off delay" timer relay such as this one.

As for what lamps to use: you'd need something with a broad beam and tight control of light above horizontal. A flood or spot type of beam would not be acceptable—too much upward light causes glare danger to other drivers and excessive backscatter if you are driving in fog, snow, or rain, and interferes with other drivers' ability to see your turn signal and/or side marker. A small H3 fog lamp such as a Bosch Scout equipped with a 27w H3 bulb (Narva 48314 or equivalent), aimed with its cutoff about 0.5°*below horizontal, would be dandy."

I have an 02 Alero with the stock fogs. The opening in the bumper where they sit is rather large on the Alero. Since fogs shouldn't be used in anything save inclement weather at low speeds, losing their functionality as fogs would not be a big loss. But is it safe to assume the fog pattern would fit the requirement Scheinwerfermann describes above? Simply rotate the bracket which connects them to the bumper rebar so they would illuminate the desired area during turns, and wire them to come on with the turn signal as described? Thus achieving a cornering lamp without tacking on extra housings.

This may not work for the majority of other models but I can think of a few it would work in, assuming the basic idea is valid.

Thoughts?

Well..... the lights are already on the car, so we know they are legal as fog lights.

Have you ever shone them on a wall just to see the beam pattern?
Will your vehicle allow you to turn on the fogs with the headlights off?
I know some factory "fog" lights don't exactly throw a true fog beam,
but you should be able to get an idea if just take it out in the yard at night.

Also, if there's any allowance to aim them further left and right, that should help.

There's nothing wrong with this idea. Some (European) vehicles actually do as you describe, light the fog lamp on one side or the other for the cornering lamp function. There are (now) provisions in the European fog lamp regulation for "handed" fog lamps specifically designed to produce a beam pattern skewed farther to the outboard than to the inboard and meant for installation on one or the other specific side of a vehicle. These provisions may exist in the updated SAE fog lamp standards; I'd have to go look. Your Alero, assuming it is a North American-spec vehicle, has "fog lamps" useless in fog, but if you turn them outboard as you describe and wire them up as above, they should make effective and safe cornering lamps.

Interesting... I just had a rock pass through my fog light on one side and have to replace the housing. Wonder if I could try it with my '04 Grand-Am. Only thing is I can't run just the fogs without the headlights...could pull the fuse I guess just to see the pattern. Any thoughts?? Legality issues?

Also, on another unrelated note, any suggestions for a headlight bulb on this model car?

I always thought cornering lamps (of the low speed variety, not like high speed, spread beam driving lamps) were a bit of a gimmick. We get lots of cars through the shop but since we mostly do the work on them during the day the lights don't get used much. The other night, though, I was a bit late closing up and jumped in to a Hyundai i40 and turned on the lights to manoeuvre from the car park into the shop to put it away. When I turned the steering an extra light came on. At first I thought it was a headlight that had delayed starting, then eventually realised what it actually was - a cornering light.

Needless to say it took about three circumnavigations of the car park to get to the door, while I checked out these things. They throw a fairly short range beam, not very flat, more like a flood but low intensity. I would say that the "fogs" on many late model vehicles are very similar. The area lit would be roughly an arc of around 60 degrees. No light behind the line of the headlights but the extra in an area that is usually dark was very useful. The interesting thing is that they operate as the steering wheel is turned, after about 1/4 turn, and then remain on until the wheel returns near centre. I'd guess that they're speed controlled (didn't drive this one on the road).

So, like OP, I can now see a real use for something like this. Not just in parking situations but also off road where night runs can be really difficult seeing on tight tracks.

Scheinwerfermann, you seem to suggest that a set of "fog" lights turned outwards might do the job and, I assume, legally. So, I have question. In your opinion, is this viable and legal? My thought is similar to OP's except that I have a bullbar which has a panel which might suit a small flat or flush mounted light (see pic below, location marked with yellow oval). What kind of light would you suggest? Would LED be suitable? I'm pretty sure I could set up sensors for steering movement and direction and limiting operation to 1st or 2nd gear would take care of preventing high speed operation.

NFT5 said:

999x919 pixel image

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Yikes, can we get a resize to 800x736 (80%)?

Ask and ye shall receive.

Displayed OK on my monitor so didn't realise might be a problem for others.