Will SF F05 red filter help penetrate rain?

Fenix advertises their red filter for the tk series to penetrate fog and smoke. I'm wondering if the F05 does the same. Anyone here who have used red filters for rain/fog/smoke? Does it do well and how do the filters compare to incans in those situations? Thanks in advance!

i dont know about the fenix red filter, but i do have the surefire F05 red filter, and use it quite a bit.
the F05 reduces the output considerably. i think it filters light in the red spectrum and only allows that to get through the filter.

with its reduced output, i doubt itll help in rain or fog. it would probably make it worst. i cant test that now, cause i live in an area that hasnt seen rain in months.

from my own experiences, ive found that warm/neutral tints help more with wet asphalt and rain.
and more concentrated beams such as throwers help as well. and of course more lumens :thumbsup:

So it would be better if I use my E2d led without the f05? One of the dealers where I get my lights suggested the f05. I also have a fury and I have used both in the rain. I'm just wondering if there's a big difference from red filters or incans/neutral whites. Should I just stick with what I have?

Btw, is it possible to get beamshots of your f05? I couldn't find any.

You'll never get much output from an led and a red filter. Led's, unless warm, just don't produce much red light, if at all.

kamote-fries said:

One of the dealers where I get my lights suggested the f05

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Ask for a demo, he's probably never tried it. Incans are full spectrum, with extra red, so such filters have much less loss than a blue heavy LED. You're better off using an actual red LED.

I'll just ask my dealer for a demo soon. Do I need to get an incan like a G2 if the filter doesn't work for me?

A red LED would be better than a red filter, if you really need lots of red light. Red LEDs are far more efficient than white LEDs, which is to say, incans fall off the bottom of the efficiency scale compared to red LEDs.

For seeing through smoke, the best choice would be an amber filter. If you look at a cloud of wood smoke, it has a distinctly bluish tint to it, meaning it strongly reflects blue light. And if you look through a cloud of wood smoke, the light has a distinctly brownish tint to it, meaning orange light (brown is just dark orange) passes through relatively easily compared to other colors.

fyrstormer said:

A red LED would be better than a red filter, if you really need lots of red light. Red LEDs are far more efficient than white LEDs, which is to say, incans fall off the bottom of the efficiency scale compared to red LEDs.

For seeing through smoke, the best choice would be an amber filter. If you look at a cloud of wood smoke, it has a distinctly bluish tint to it, meaning it strongly reflects blue light. And if you look through a cloud of wood smoke, the light has a distinctly brownish tint to it, meaning orange light (brown is just dark orange) passes through relatively easily compared to other colors.

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Would an amber filter help with rain too? What red LEDs do you suggest?

kamote-fries said:

Would an amber filter help with rain too? What red LEDs do you suggest?

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Spectrally speaking, visible light doesn't change in wavelength enough to be differentially diffracted by most rain/fog/smoke particles. It would take a very TIGHT distribution of particle sizes at a few hundred nanometers to really scatter only certain visible frequencies. So that leaves us with perceptual differences.

I am told that human eyes are pretty good at seeing differences is brightness in the amber region (Hence the orange streetlight craze), but that visual acuity is poor. Glare in the shorter-wavelength regions is what 'closes' your pupils for you. This may directly affect appearance of glare in smoke/rain/fog, and is the reasoning behind selective-yellow fog lamps.

Honestly, I would think very hard about my present beam pattern and light usage. Those will have the biggest impact. Narrower beams make less opaque-white-cone in fog, and beams farther from your eyes put less glowing mist between you and an object of interest. I do not know if any selective-yellow filters are made for LEDs. These are specially-made plastic filters that remove blue wavelengths, and so they appear yellow. This would reduce, but probably not cripple, an LED output.

Edit: Nailbender makes P60 'red LED' dropins, and I think he or Vingyuen (How is that spelled?) will modify a given light with a red LED.

AnAppleSnail said:

Spectrally speaking, visible light doesn't change in wavelength enough to be differentially diffracted by most rain/fog/smoke particles. It would take a very TIGHT distribution of particle sizes at a few hundred nanometers to really scatter only certain visible frequencies. So that leaves us with perceptual differences.

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Have you ever heard of a rainbow? It's this thing caused by differential diffraction of light passing through rain particles.

Even if diffraction were irrelevant, reflection/absorption/transmission would still be an important factor. Foglights are amber because amber light isn't strongly reflected by water, so it is more effective for illuminating objects "behind" a shroud of water vapor. Smoke has a wider range of properties because it can be made of multiple substances, but for wood smoke at least, the light that's most easily transmitted through the smoke is amber as well.

Using a red filter will decrease the output very much. Try using a coke cap for your 1 inch lights an you will see that a 150 lumen light will look like a 20lumen one.

What is needed for rain penetrating lights are those warm/neutrals/ or Incan. When using CW LEDs, most will just reflect back at you. When using the neutral ones, they will penetrate more and less light will reflect back at you. That is why cars still use Incan type of headlights in most place.


BTW, does your supplier sell an F04 diffuser?

ico said:

Using a red filter will decrease the output very much. Try using a coke cap for your 1 inch lights an you will see that a 150 lumen light will look like a 20lumen one.

What is needed for rain penetrating lights are those warm/neutrals/ or Incan. When using CW LEDs, most will just reflect back at you. When using the neutral ones, they will penetrate more and less light will reflect back at you. That is why cars still use Incan type of headlights in most place.


BTW, does your supplier sell an F04 diffuser?

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Yes. They sell f04, f05, and f06. I actually got the f04 a few weeks ago and i've been using it a lot.

During the last typhoon a few months ago, i used my fury and it helped me dodge falling debris. The only concern i have is a lot of light reflected back at me. I'm just wondering if I should just use what i have, get a filter, or is it better to buy a new light that will be used specifically for rain/fog/smoke?

kamote-fries said:

During the last typhoon a few months ago, i used my fury and it helped me dodge falling debris.

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Um, is it possible to stay inside during a typhoon? They aren't surprise events, are they?

A throwier light will help, but at some point you lose the ability to see what you're seeing. What!? If you have a needle-ray of light, it becomes very hard to see what it is shining on. It can become sort of like looking at the world through a straw. There's a limit to what it is even possible to see in. Maybe try a selective-yellow filter cut into a Surefire diffuser widget, and try that in the shower?

AnAppleSnail said:

Um, is it possible to stay inside during a typhoon? They aren't surprise events, are they?

A throwier light will help, but at some point you lose the ability to see what you're seeing. What!? If you have a needle-ray of light, it becomes very hard to see what it is shining on. It can become sort of like looking at the world through a straw. There's a limit to what it is even possible to see in. Maybe try a selective-yellow filter cut into a Surefire diffuser widget, and try that in the shower?

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I was actually thinking of putting a yellow thing on my diffuser. I'm just not sure what kind of material to use.
Sometimes, the forecast here sucks and not accurate. I was outside during a typhoon because i had to move our cars to higher ground to avoid the flood. I had to go back to our house, pitch black with heavy winds blowing our trees.

kamote-fries said:

I was actually thinking of putting a yellow thing on my diffuser. I'm just not sure what kind of material to use.
Sometimes, the forecast here sucks and not accurate. I was outside during a typhoon because i had to move our cars to higher ground to avoid the flood. I had to go back to our house, pitch black with heavy winds blowing our trees.

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I am glad you and your cars made it safely. Automotive selective yellow article suggests using Duplicolor MetalCast paint. I suggest trying this on a clear piece of plastic that is not part of the flashlight permanently (Use optical-grade plastic on the final version, and it's up to you whether or not to make this permanent). Note that his output discussions are for automotive filament lamps, not LEDs.

If this works, let us know please. Good luck!

AnAppleSnail said:

I am glad you and your cars made it safely. Automotive selective yellow article suggests using Duplicolor MetalCast paint. I suggest trying this on a clear piece of plastic that is not part of the flashlight permanently (Use optical-grade plastic on the final version, and it's up to you whether or not to make this permanent). Note that his output discussions are for automotive filament lamps, not LEDs.

If this works, let us know please. Good luck!

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Okay. I'll see what I can do. Thanks!

Alternately, Solarforce sells a yellow filter. I don't know how effectively it blocks non-yellow light, but it's cheap enough that it might be worth trying anyway.

fyrstormer said:

Alternately, Solarforce sells a yellow filter. I don't know how effectively it blocks non-yellow light, but it's cheap enough that it might be worth trying anyway.

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The problem is, in my country, we only have very limited sellers and most of the time only sells SF and Fenix lights. If we order online, anything cheap would be expensive because of shipping. I'll look around and see if I can find that solarforce filter.

Btw, may I know what lights you guys use during heavy rains?

I just use my normal flashlight, a Jetbeam TC-R2. Nothing special about it. My definition of "heavy rain" may be different than yours, though; if I were actually having trouble seeing through the rain, I wouldn't be standing outside in the first place.

fyrstormer said:

I just use my normal flashlight, a Jetbeam TC-R2. Nothing special about it. My definition of "heavy rain" may be different than yours, though; if I were actually having trouble seeing through the rain, I wouldn't be standing outside in the first place.

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When there are heavy rains, the flood in our city gets high quick. I go out of my house to check on the water level of our compound. I also check other people's cars and houses. Our family owns the compound and I am the only one in our area who has lights that are useful. Another thing, sometimes addicts/robbers try to get in our compound and walks on our roofs.

When there are heavy rains, i prefer staying indoors too. There are just those moments that I have to go out and check on some things. I've used my lights and they work. I'm just curious if I can make them work a lot better during these circumstances.