EDC King of Throw

It's that time again to see who the king of the mountain is in everyday carry throw capabilities. Several years ago I came in here looking to see what I should replace my Stream Light Scorpion with, at that time the Nitecore Extreme XR-E Q5 was the winner. I'll never forget the holy cr@p moment when I first turned it on and had that much throw in such a tiny light. Switching to the IMR 16340s was a nice little bump but now I'm wanting that holy cr@p moment again. I have carried the extreme daily for work and excursions and am still impressed every time I'm in an attic, basement, cave or bfe... it really is an amazing light. I don't need to replace it but if there is a single 123/ IMR 16340 out there that will just freakin blow the it away I'd sure like to see it.

I was reading selfbuilts review of the olight s10:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...RCR)-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-VIDEO-and-more!

and noticed he lists the JetBeam BC10 XP-G R5 and Nitecore EC1 XP-G R5 as having ridiculous numbers when using AW RCR. Are those the top pocket throwers?

I don't think there are any right now.
Your XRE will likely out-throw anything in its size range from the modern lights.
There is a possibility that the new XPG2 might have a chance to do it.
And possibly the XPE2 might do it also, but I haven't seen any examples of that LED out there yet.

For small reflector lights, the XRE is still the king of throw.

The modern emitters are all bigger and more powerful, but they need a bigger reflector to throw the way they should. The small EDC size lights with this big emitters and small reflectors are more floody, and not very throwy.

The limited production DEFT EDC LR is probably the longest throwing EDC size light ever, at around 88k lux, but they have all been sold out a year ago or more. It was an aspheric, but it had a diffuser lens that you could put on it for general use.

If you want something like an aspheric thrower that throws a pencil beam that has no spill, you might check out Ahorton in the custom section. He makes P60 size aspheric lenses for lights.

twl said:

For small reflector lights, the XRE is still the king of throw.

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Thank you for the great reply. It's hard not to think that at 470 lumens and 7000 lux it wouldn't out throw the Nitecore Extreme XRE Q5 just by brute force. Not much a smooth reflector could do to help throw on the BC10?

jalibass said:

Thank you for the great reply. It's hard not to think that at 470 lumens and 7000 lux it wouldn't out throw the Nitecore Extreme XRE Q5 just by brute force. Not much a smooth reflector could do to help throw on the BC10?

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Well what lux numbers are you seeing with the nitecore extreme? right now id say the nitecore ec1 is leading for the modern little single cr123s

jalibass said:

Thank you for the great reply. It's hard not to think that at 470 lumens and 7000 lux it wouldn't out throw the Nitecore Extreme XRE Q5 just by brute force. Not much a smooth reflector could do to help throw on the BC10?

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The Jetbeam BC10 smooth reflector and XP-G2 would be monster using AW IMR 16340 cell. However I don't think Jetbeam will make this a production light. If you are able to mod a BC10 with a XP-G2, then this would be a good alternative.

jalibass said:

Thank you for the great reply. It's hard not to think that at 470 lumens and 7000 lux it wouldn't out throw the Nitecore Extreme XRE Q5 just by brute force. Not much a smooth reflector could do to help throw on the BC10?

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It all depends on the light and its reflector design.
7000 lux is pushing about what could be done with an XRE in a pocket light back then, so these new ones will be getting close. The best-throwing small XRE lights got up to about 9000 lux, but most were down in the 5500-7000 lux range.
But, the beams will not be narrow like the old XRE lights. The beams on these new lights will be wide and floody. Not that that's bad. It's just the way they'll be.
And they are doing it just by brute force, but they have quite a bit of brute force with 470 lumens.

Some consumer satisfaction problems arise with these little XML lights on Turbo setting with a 16340 because they can't hold that Turbo setting very long, due to heat.
So, usually within a minute or three, they step down to the lower level around 250 lumens, so they don't burn up.
You don't get the full 470 lumens for long. Most of these new lights sporting high power output do this. It's the new way to advertise high power, but they only give it to you for a short time after you turn it on, and then it's like a normal light after that. Either that, or they just let you burn up the LED, with no step down.
This is what most manufacturers are doing right now to make their lights look like high power lights.

So, welcome back to the new world of little XML Turbo lights that only go Turbo for a couple of minutes on 16340, and then go back to normal.

The Nitecore EC1 is going to be the best. It gives 6750 lux at 400 lumens, while the BC10 needs 510 lumens to make 7000 lux. So the BC10 is gonna use 25% more power/heat to give about the same throw. You may want to consider the EC2. It's probably just a few mm longer than the BC10, but will give 3-4 times the run time of a 16340. If you're looking for a throwy small XML, then I've found the Thrunite TN12 to be the best throw. It is a two cell light, but it's the same diameter as the EC 2 and 1 inch longer. It makes 6500 lux and has a lot bigger spot/output. It makes 705 Lumens OTF. It is not a "Step-Down" Turbo light, and it does have thermal control for protection. It has a copper mounted LED which probably helps a lot. It makes max output, but drops gradualy. It's still doing about 85%+ power 30 minutes out.

The pocket sized king would be the DEFT EDC+ and it does fit in a pocket easily.

The next larger one would be the Deerelight Night Master. It still fits in a pocket, but the head is too big for most people to consider it truly pocket sized.

These will out throw any of the lights mentioned above by an enormous margin.



Do you need the throw to see anything in particular...or is just to have that holy crap moment?

I recently tested a couple hot 16340 lights. The Jetbeam BC10 and Eagletac D25C clicky. The jetbeam did really well as expected. Using AW IMR's I measures 8600cp at 1M and 414otf at 30sec. I also did a real life throw test. It measured 3.1cp at 50M, .7cp at 100M, and .1cp at 200M. So pretty darn good for a small light.
Now the surprising one was the D25C clicky - XML U2 version. Also tested with the AW IMR. This light is shorter than the bc10 and has a smaller head and reflector. And a typical none thrower XML. BUT this little light has serious power. We only measured 4600cp at 1m, but it put out 774otf at start up and still did 650otf at 30sec. It tested 1.8cp at 50M, .4cp at 100M, and .1cp at 200M. Though the lux at 1M doesn't show it, the little XML light actually matches the throw of the of the BC10 throw brute force. Now I wouldn't run either light for long periods with the IMR's, but both also do pretty well and still throw pretty equal on primaries.

Dereelight have a 16340 size light with an XRE led the C2H.I have both the bc10 & the C2H & the dereelight throws a little bit farther than the bc10.The Deft is on another planet compared to both of them though apparantley saalbuster who makes the deft has a new website called the one stop throw shop i haven't been on his site yet but there might be another edc size thrower there for you to buy.

It might be on the bigger size for an EDC, but it still fits comfortably in a pocket, and at 113K lux, the smallsun ZY-C10-S from saabluster is an absolutely awesome thrower.

The beam is pencil thin, and when required can be zoomed out for all flood. This is my absolute favorite thrower now, and I thought my DEFT EDC was great!

Even beats my dereelight DBS-T and takes the fight all the way to my TN31.

TEEJ said:

Do you need the throw to see anything in particular...or is just to have that holy crap moment?

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I use my little XR-E for work: caves, attics, basements where having a lot of throw means you don't need to crawl an extra 100' or get a lift to trace lines four stories overhead. I also do animal rescue: fields, trees, caves. This light is with me 18 hours and day and I've never wished I had a bigger/brighter light. For that reason I really don't want something bigger to acquire brighter. I can wait for something the same size to double or triple the nightcore extreme XR-E.

davyro said:

apparantley saalbuster who makes the deft has a new website called the one stop throw shop i haven't been on his site yet but there might be another edc size thrower there for you to buy.

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They have three lights on the site now, none of them are edc. I'll keep checking back to see if they add something. Does anyone know what is on the horizon for omg lumens?

You can check out the marketplace for used lights...always an assortment that constantly changes.

You can take a look at the Deerelight Night Master...it might add to your capabilities, and nothing vaguely close to it in size that can be purchased non-custom can out throw it, esp for the price.

I do disaster response, search and rescue, and forensic investigations, so I am also crawling around places such as you described.

For what you mention specifically, I use a Klarus XT11 though.

bedazzLED said:

It might be on the bigger size for an EDC, but it still fits comfortably in a pocket, and at 113K lux, the smallsun ZY-C10-S from saabluster is an absolutely awesome thrower.

The beam is pencil thin, and when required can be zoomed out for all flood. This is my absolute favorite thrower now, and I thought my DEFT EDC was great!

Even beats my dereelight DBS-T and takes the fight all the way to my TN31.

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That is why visiting this site is financially irresponsible. I came on here to see if something will double or triple my 93mm XR-E and now I'll be buying saabluster's modified ThruNite TN31... d@mnit!

Can someone clarify the term lux and lumens pls?? And also oft lumens?

Southpaw1925 said:

Can someone clarify the term lux and lumens pls?? And also oft lumens?

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The general terms are defined as Lux being the maximum brightness at the center of the beam focus, generally measured at 1 meter. It is often stated as an indicator of the "throw distance" that a light can produce, because that is what it takes for the light to shine far into the distance. The higher the Lux, the longer the distance the light beam will "throw".
The Lumens are the overall light output of the beam, including all the spill and center. All the output.
Out-The-Front(OTF) lumens is the overall light output that comes out the front end of the light, after the losses of the internal systems of reflectors or lenses, etc. The "emitter lumens" is the theoretical maximum overall output of the LED if there were no internal reflectors or lenses or other losses involved. OTF lumens is normally about 15% lower than emitter lumens, and might be even lower than that.

My EagleTac D25LC2 Mini XP-G S2 throws quite well for it's size and I would have thought not hugely different to the Nitecore EC1 (although I don't have one to compare to). But that said my Solarforce L2M stumpy (1xRCR) with an Ultrafire XM-L T6 and SMO reflector will still out throw it, despite being a more floody style beam.

Would an XR-E drop in out throw the XM-L? Afraid I can't answer that yet.

Oooo that makes perfect sense. Now I can finally read and understand selfbuilts charts when he reviews lights. Lol how about the different types of emitters and what character of beams it produces?

I know xp-g produces more concentrated beam thus more throw

While xm-l produces more of a floods beam.

Idk what xr-e is or q5 r2 r5 if that even relates to the latter.

Oh yeah. Isn't the new MAG-TAC around 9000lux. That has to be one of the further throwing normal reflector lights in this size class I'd have thought.