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Thread: Powertools, Man

  1. #1

    Default Powertools, Man

    Most powertool threads revolve around battery harvesting, so heres one about the tools themselves.

    I grew up using metal bodied drills. One speed, forward only, no brake, a button to keep the trigger engaged, and a bowl full of chuck keys. When I was old enough to start investing in my own power tools, I picked out a drill with all the modern conveniences. Variable speed trigger, brakes to stop the drill when released, 2 speed transmission, keyless chuck, reverse, 7 setting clutch, and most of all, batteries. At the risk of overstating things, I waited as long as I could, then bought the best I could (dewalt 14.4).

    Fast forward 20 years, the drill etc are still going strong. Save new batteries and one new motor, the entire set is fully functional, with another 10 years in it. Including the breaking of hundreds of Z41 tailcaps a year (custom bit). But looking around at the current power tool market, my trusty companion is simply obsolete. Really really obsolete. Impact drive, hammer drill, extra tranny speed, 15 extra clutch settings, lithium ion batteries, brushless motors, built in LEDs, instant chuck.

    Half the size/weight at twice the power. Techno-lust aside, it simply isn't practical not to upgrade.
    Last edited by ElectronGuru; 10-07-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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    Flashaholic* orbital's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    +

    I'm not sure if I need another cup of coffee after reading your OP,, or one less??

    ..anyway, I still like corded stuff, call me old fashion.
    My heavy drill is a corded Dewalt DWD110K (for larger duties only)

    my cordless one is weak,, and that's exactly what I want in it.
    Last edited by orbital; 10-08-2012 at 10:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    yeah you dont mention weight or foot pounds. I like my old plug in 3 pound makita impact drivers for EVERYTHING.


    Powerful efficient impacting 88.5 ft.lbs. (1,062 in.lbs.)
    True variable speed (0-3,200 RPM) for controlled fastening.
    Compact design and weighs only 2.9 lbs.
    Externally accessible brushes for easy serviceability and dual ball bearings for longer tool life.
    Rubberized pistol grip for more comfort, control and reduced operator fatigue.

    I also have a the model under/before this one, I dont have the model number but it is the exact same only without the metal hang clip thing, slightly less powerful which is handy for smaller screws and bits..
    Last edited by TedTheLed; 10-08-2012 at 01:20 PM.
    originally cpf member #14 write me at gmail.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Quote Originally Posted by orbital View Post
    +

    I'm not sure if I need another cup of coffee after reading your OP,, or one less??

    ..anyway, I still like corded stuff, call me old fashion.
    My heavy drill is a corded Dewalt DWD110K (for larger duties only)

    my cordless one is weak,, and that's exactly what I want in it.
    So, that's DC for untethered fun and AC to get it done?.............That's been my experience!

  5. #5

    Default Powertools, Man

    Quote Originally Posted by TedTheLed View Post
    yeah you dont mention weight or foot pounds. I like my old plug in 3 pound makita impact drivers for EVERYTHING.

    Powerful efficient impacting 88.5 ft.lbs. (1,062 in.lbs.)
    True variable speed (0-3,200 RPM) for controlled fastening.
    Compact design and weighs only 2.9 lbs.
    That's part of my shock/excitement. The latest 18/20v cordless are 1500 in/lb, 3300rpm (with 3 speed/scale trigger for even more control), 5in long, 3 lbs with battery and enough run time for hundreds of screws. It's nuts!
    Last edited by ElectronGuru; 10-08-2012 at 03:09 PM.
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    Flashaholic* Yoda4561's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Yep, back when I was doing commercial electric rough in 5 years ago I used 18v nicad Bosch gear, best stuff I could get at the time. A new 18v lithium ion equivalent feels like it's half the weight, a feather almost compared to the older nicad stuff, and the torque/RPM values aren't sacrificed for it. The newest brushless stuff is good for either 50% more runtime or more power, it's really impressive. I use a 12v, 960 in/lb bosch PS41 impact for diy projects around the house, and it's really impressive for its size and battery. What's more impressive is the only thing bigger on the new 18v ones is the battery, and the weight difference is moot holding both in your hands. The 18v has about 1400 inch lbs and way more runtime. I like my little mini-impact driver though, it's easy to control and just looks so damn adorable, i've not found it wanting for power with any reasonable fastener either.
    Last edited by Yoda4561; 10-08-2012 at 03:08 PM.

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    Flashaholic* 880arm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    My first "real" cordless was an 18V DeWalt that I purchased around 15 years ago and I (over)worked it nearly to death doing electrical work running nearly any type of auger bit or hole saw you can imagine. Since that time I have accumulated over a dozen or so of their 18V (along with a few 14.4's) tools so I'm pretty heavily invested in the "old" technology. I don't do electrical work any more so there's no chance I'm going to wear any of them out but the batteries may become a concern someday. However, I think they will continue to support the older style for a while.

    Having said that, I have been thinking about getting a smaller and lighter 12V drill to bridge the gap between my 7.2V cordless screwdriver and the 18V drills.

    On a related note, how did we ever survive before cordless drills and screwdrivers?

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* Yoda4561's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Hand crank drills More cordless than cordless.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda4561 View Post
    I like my little mini-impact driver though, it's easy to control and just looks so damn adorable, i've not found it wanting for power with any reasonable fastener either.
    Quote Originally Posted by 880arm View Post
    Having said that, I have been thinking about getting a smaller and lighter 12V drill to bridge the gap between my 7.2V cordless screwdriver and the 18V drills.
    The new 12v lithiums have nearly the power of NiCad 18's, in some cases more (drill -> impact). For light to medium jobs, its all that you need. By the old scales, the DCS310 (for example) shouldn't even be possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by 880arm View Post
    On a related note, how did we ever survive before cordless drills and screwdrivers?
    We used a boatload of nails
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    Flashaholic* orbital's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda4561 View Post
    Hand crank drills More cordless than cordless.
    +

    Remember these,,,





    put the ncr18650a next to it to show it's mine

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    Flashaholic* 880arm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectronGuru View Post
    We used a boatload of nails
    Ain't that the truth. Tasks like hanging drywall or building a deck were drastically different then.

    When I was 17 years old (way back in the 80's) I can remember when my dad bought a Black & Decker cordless drill. I think it was a 4.8V model and had virtually no power but I loved using it for installing car stereos and other small tasks like that.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* 880arm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Quote Originally Posted by orbital View Post
    +

    Remember these,,,





    put the ncr18650a next to it to show it's mine
    Orbital thanks for posting that. The Yankee Screwdriver was exactly what I was thinking of when I posed that question earlier. Although it's not the same, I still have a Klein "spinner" screwdriver that I use to this day.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    My Yankee screwdriver still sees some usage, along with a nice old draw knife, and some block planes.

    Last year I got an 18v Milwaulkee lithium set, and it blows away my 10yr old Porter Cable!
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
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    Flashaholic* HighlanderNorth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    I'm not even a carpenter, but I bought my 1st home in 2003, and I already had a pro grade 14.4v Porter cable cordless drill, so I started buying LOTS of power tools for my home, and for winter work jobs indoors. I learned not to buy cheaper homeowner grade tools most of the time, so I have the following:

    1. Ridgid 18V Ni Cad hammer drill/driver(572 in/lbs) from late 2003
    2. Ridgid 18v Ni cad circular saw(came with above tool^)
    3. Ridgid 14.4v Ni Cad impact driver(850in/lbs) Rarely ever use it!
    4. Ridgid plug in Jigsaw
    5. Ridgid plug in orbital sander
    6. Milwaukee plug in Sawzall
    7. Ryobi plug in sander/polisher(hardly use)
    8. Porter cable plug in detail sander(hardly use)
    9. Ridgid plug in laminate cutter(hardly use)
    10. Makita angle grinder
    11. Porter Cable 14.4v cordless driver/drill(gave to Mom)
    12. Porter Cable Air compressor
    13. Porter Cable pro grade pneumatic Brad nailer(hardly use)
    14. Porter Cable pro grade pneumatic Finish nailer(hardly use)
    15. Ridgid magnesium 3 1/2" pneumatic Framing nailer(hardly use)
    16. Ridgid pneumatic Narrow crown stapler(hardly use)


    I am forgetting something, but I cant figure out what it is. Anyway, I like the newer Li Ion cordless tools, especially the Milwaukee drills with their brushless design, and usually superior torque, plus they are lighter than ever, smaller too, yet have like 700 in/lbs torque. Thats great for a cordless drill. I also want one of the Fein multimaster type tools that cuts, sands, etc. I tried one of them out, and it pretty nice. It does stuff that no other tool can. I also want a nice router, as I thought my laminate cutter might work as a light router, but it doesnt have the power(total waste of money)
    Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield.

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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectronGuru View Post
    That's part of my shock/excitement. The latest 18/20v cordless are 1500 in/lb, 3300rpm (with 3 speed/scale trigger for even more control), 5in long, 3 lbs with battery and enough run time for hundreds of screws. It's nuts!
    start naming names! I didnt think they were that light either ie. 3 lbs or under.. Meanwhile Ill go check out Makitas latest battery powered offerings...
    originally cpf member #14 write me at gmail.

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    Flashaholic* Yoda4561's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    All the big players really, Bosch, Dewalt, Milwaukee, Makita, etc. Really the biggest factor is how much you like each tool's ergonomics and how invested you are in a battery system. All the ones over 1400 inch lbs I've seen are just over 3 pounds, but the 1200 and under ones don't even hit 3 with the battery. The 12v tools are only 2 pounds or so, but the new 18's with the slim/lightweight battery packs are only a pound heavier and actually balance better.

    http://www.makita.com/en-us/Modules/...aspx?ID=549992

    http://www.makita.com/en-us/Modules/....aspx?ID=24056

    and my cute little 12v. Handy little thing. http://www.boschtools.com/Products/T...=PS41-2A#specs
    Last edited by Yoda4561; 10-09-2012 at 08:50 PM.

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    Flashaholic* HighlanderNorth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Quote Originally Posted by TedTheLed View Post
    start naming names! I didnt think they were that light either ie. 3 lbs or under.. Meanwhile Ill go check out Makitas latest battery powered offerings...
    Check out the Milwaukee cordless offerings now, they are still the only brand that offers brushless motors I believe, and they are about the most powerful as far as torque is concerned as well. Milwaukee has been around a LONG time, and they make fantastic tools.
    Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield.

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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    ok, so far got this Makita, comes closest to electrons description; I use only impact drivers, dewalt has a much more expensive one, but is only a driver, and not as powerful!

    Till I check out the Milwaukee, Im gettin this one


    Makita LXDT04CW 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion Cordless Impact Driver Kit
    Product Features
    Makita-built 4-pole motor delivers 1,420 inlbs of Max Torque
    Compact design at only 5-7/16-Inch long and weighs only 2.8 lbs for reduced operator fatigue
    Variable speed design (0-2,300 RPM & 0-3,200 IPM) covers a wide range of fastening applications
    Convenient 1/4-Inch hex one-touch chuck for quick bit changes.
    Built-in L.E.D. light with afterglow illuminates the work area
    $170 at amazon , free ship.
    Last edited by TedTheLed; 10-09-2012 at 09:13 PM.
    originally cpf member #14 write me at gmail.

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    Flashaholic* Yoda4561's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Try one with an impact rated spade bit sometime, it'll surprise you. Just don't try a self feeding spade, they don't work as well as the old style ones with impact drivers. I've used cheap junk hex shaft spades with mine and it's really fast, and on the rare occasion you make the bit bind the impact will engage and prevent kickback and get the bit spinning again.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* RBR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    The only cordless drill i´ve got is a 6337DWDE from Makita and i´m very satisfied with this little machine. It helped me through reconstructing my house years ago and is still the tool to pick for quick and dirty jobs.

    Beside that i have to confess that i´m a little old fashioned and use corded machines for all other jobs.

    Got a 125mm angle grinder from Fein but with M14 spindle instead of a quick release, similar to this one here http://www.feinus.com/en_us/grinding...125-t-0282476/,

    a MultiMaster from Fein like this here http://www.feinus.com/en_us/oscillat...-plus-0285803/, a 30 years old AEG (Made In Germany, not madeinsomewherearoundtheworld like nowadays) hammer drill and for exact

    work a Flott gear box drill press up to 1" diameter in steel.

    For cutting brick walls we used a corded Bosch Blue line 230mm angle grinder and used a corded Bosch Blue line wall grinder for hiding cables and wiring in the walls.

    And i fear though i have a house and do lot´s of work myself that is all i need so far in a matter of power tools.

    Cheers

    RBR

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* orbital's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    +

    Now I'm all fired up on the Milwaukee FUEL Series,,,,,damn


    hmm, you can never have too many tools!

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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    why? its bigger and with
    less power than the smaller lighter ones above..
    originally cpf member #14 write me at gmail.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda4561 View Post
    All the big players really, Bosch, Dewalt, Milwaukee, Makita, etc. Really the biggest factor is how much you like each tool's ergonomics and how invested you are in a battery system.
    Yeah, I can't get past the grip feel on the DeWalts.

    1st impression, the big brands have their emphases like so:

    Mikita
    - 1st with the new tech
    Milwaukee - Most variations/models
    DeWalt - Long research/development
    Bosch - ?


    There are also smaller brands like Hilti that I'm still figuring out.
    Last edited by ElectronGuru; 10-11-2012 at 10:39 AM.
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    Flashaholic* skyfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    im almost too embarrassed to say but im still using a 9.6v makita! the batteries cant even hold a charge anymore. and will self discharge in a day. LoL
    luckily, ive only needed it for those occasional small jobs, and projects. ive been meaning to great a new drill forever now, but have never put in the research.
    like EG did, i going to go for the latest and greatest. 9.6v on bad batteries literally was not cutting it. heheh

    i do need a belt sander for a house painting side job. maybe there will be a nice powertool set for sale at home depot...

  25. #25

    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Quote Originally Posted by HighlanderNorth View Post
    they are still the only brand that offers brushless motors I believe
    I believe the sequence went like: makita -> milwaukee -> dewalt

    Basically, makita comes out with some hot new feature on a few things, milwaukee pushes it to a whole new line of new tools, and then dewalt adds it to a few select tools. Ie, makita are the innovators, and milwaukee the risk takers (go big or go home). Then dewalt and bosch seem to pick and choose from there.


    Quote Originally Posted by orbital View Post
    Now I'm all fired up on the Milwaukee FUEL Series,,,,,damn
    The marketing from the big companies seems to create more confusion than it solves. Milwaukee got big into lithiums, changing from V to M on the lines/batteries, and now uses FUEL to mean brushless. DeWalt is more clear with BL on the motors, but less so with batteries. The latest slide in 18's are called 20's, apparently to differentiate from 18, but the new 10.8's are called 12's for the same reason?


    Quote Originally Posted by skyfire View Post
    9.6v on bad batteries literally was not cutting it.
    The advent of lithium has made the new 10/12's competitive with older 14/18's. You should have a grand time upgrading with any of the brands.
    Last edited by ElectronGuru; 10-11-2012 at 11:11 AM.
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  26. #26

    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Impact drivers have gotten so powerful that screws are no longer able to keep up, literally shearing off under the strain. Like LEDs with medium and low modes, the latest models from the big three now include power settings. Here's a nice review showing the difference:



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  27. #27
    Flashaholic* Yoda4561's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    And just think that's a solid 1/4 inch hex shaft that just got twisted into two pieces. I've watched videos of how fast the 12v vs 14 and 18 v impacts were, and it seems like the speed/ amount of strain on the fasteners goes up way faster than the maximum torque value might imply. In that sense I'm happy to see brushless is making multi-speed impacts easier to implement, since it's just a command to the motor's ESC and not a mechanical transmission. I'd say 1500 inch lbs is almost too much power for a 1/4 inch bit unless you're only using it for extra speed with those huge decking screws into wood.
    Last edited by Yoda4561; 10-11-2012 at 11:26 AM.

  28. #28
    Flashaholic* HighlanderNorth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda4561 View Post
    And just think that's a solid 1/4 inch hex shaft that just got twisted into two pieces. I've watched videos of how fast the 12v vs 14 and 18 v impacts were, and it seems like the speed/ amount of strain on the fasteners goes up way faster than the maximum torque value might imply. In that sense I'm happy to see brushless is making multi-speed impacts easier to implement, since it's just a command to the motor's ESC and not a mechanical transmission. I'd say 1500 inch lbs is almost too much power for a 1/4 inch bit unless you're only using it for extra speed with those huge decking screws into wood.
    Yep.

    About 5 years ago I bought a Ni Cad 14.4 volt Ridgid impact driver with around 850 in/lbs, and its been powerful enough to do anything I've needed it to do so far. Keep in mind, through the gear ratios, these impact drivers are significantly more powerful than the cordless drill/drivers. Today's 18-20 volt drills run around 550-700 in/lbs. My 9 year old Ridgid Ni Cad 18v hammer drill/driver is listed at about 570in/lbs ot torque, and thats been powerful enough to drill through concrete with fairly large masonry bits, and it been powerful enough that I could install aluminum or steel threaded gutter spikes into every gutter on many client's homes, usually without having to switch batteries! Its never been stifled by any bit or nut I've thrown at it.

    So, do we really need 1500 in/lbs? If you need that much torque, you are likely working with very large nuts and bolts, so much so that you probably wont be able to take advantage of the full twisting power without breaking your wrist with one of these little impact drivers! Or bending/breaking the driver's shaft.
    Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield.

  29. #29
    Flashaholic* Yoda4561's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powertools, Man

    Ahh, that's one of the nice things about Impacts, there's little to no torque feedback to the user, only a mild pulsing sensation at most. I get way less wrist torquing than I do from a little 80 inch/lb pocket screwdriver, and compared to a 600 in/lb 18v hammerdrill it's less than pulling the trigger with an empty chuck.

  30. #30

    Default Powertools, Man

    Quote Originally Posted by HighlanderNorth View Post
    So, do we really need 1500 in/lbs? If you need that much torque, you are likely working with very large nuts and bolts, so much so that you probably wont be able to take advantage of the full twisting power without breaking your wrist with one of these little impact drivers!
    That's supposed to be one of the pluses of impacts. Torque is charged into a spring and then released against the bit without twisting against your hand.

    Breaking the lock-tight on so many tailcaps has gotten painful, so this is the first feature I jumped at. Can't wait to see if it really works.


    Here's a video that shows the difference (motor vs motor+impact). Pay particular attention to his grip:


    Last edited by ElectronGuru; 10-11-2012 at 04:27 PM.
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