Winter specific tires for cars, do don't why which ?

simple answer for me is yes: if there is a chance of winter happening, on go studless winter tires

the specific brand and model I chose after a long time researching and testing tires myself, [this
is not a sales thread whatoever] but I chose XIce Xi2 over all other offerings, for a ton of reasons
and I find they get it done in a big way vs all season tires

-on my subcompact, it turned it from basically undrivable in my neighborhood of 14deg hills, into a snowcat
-on my 1999 woods buggy 4runner, all seasons really worked fine, but have since started winter specific
due to the outlandish improvement on the squirrelly car...and damn, what a difference


Do you also use full winters and switch over for the season ?

If you're in a snowy area, snow tires should be not-optional; the difference in braking can be many dozens of feet, which can be the difference between plowing into the car in front of you/weeks of dealing with insurance/personal injury with hospitalization/etc, and just coming to a stop then driving away merrily.

If you really want to maximize your winter traction, buy not only the snow tires, but also mount them on a unique set of wheels which are smaller in diameter than your usual wheels (properly sized smaller using the plus system.) This gives you a notably better snow-cutting contact patch, and makes it much faster to install; no un-/re-mounting tires, just wheels off, wheels on, go.

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Ice is the biggest factor.

Cars pack down snow to create ice withing hours of snowfall.
Even if plows are really on it, ice is the issue.

Winter tires have little cuts called sipes that garb ice quite well, as well as having softer compound.
Remember to get your braking done before the turn,,, Very important!
Also, don't overinflate your tires.

I have Michelin LTX M/S all-seasons,, they have particularly soft sidewalls which allow the tire to grip well in winter conditions*

*summer turn-in response is sacrificed a bit.

Its hard to beat the Bridgestone Blizzaks on hard pack or ice...they essentially have microscopic sipes that are part of the rubber formulation as well as macroscopic tread sipes, and the performance is phenomenal.

So, yeah, if you drive in snow, dedicated snow tires are better than all season tires.

A point to note - The old M&S (Mud and Snow) rating is obsolete, as no testing was required to get that designation...the makers would just put it on if they thought it applied, etc.

The new designation is a Mountain/Snowflake symbol...and tires have to pass tests to earn it. Some mountain passes in Co, etc, state that rigs w/o that snowflake are not even ALLOWED on some roads in winter, etc.

This will be our third winter here in Quebec, Canada we are obliged to equip our vehicles with dedicated winter tires.

I've always done so regardless of the law. There is a very noticeable difference in a vehicles performance depending on the tires and conditions.

Blizzaks are very good, (accord)
I was very happy with my Dunlop Wintersport M3.(tl-s)
I think I'm going to go with Toyo for my C250 4matic.

The important part is not to cheap out. Get tires from a reputable company, made in a country with quality control.

IMO winter tires are an absolute must in the North East. I used to have an older S4 and with winter tires on it that car was unstoppable in pretty much anything. I could plow through 8 inches of snow with pure confidence and have a blast.

I drive 40 miles each way to work and having winter tires has got me through where others were stuck in a ditch. Well worth the $1000 to get a used set of rims and a good set of winter tires.

I've always gone with all-season tires, right from the the introduction of the Goodyear Tiempo and have done well enough that I have no intention of changing back to separate tires for the seasons.
Equipment is important, and the most important equipment is the driver and the most important thing a driver does is assess the conditions to drive appropriately, even if it means getting down to 25 miles an hour, as many people did up here year before last when black ice was there for the better part of four months.

This post isn't directed at anyone in particular.

The driver is the biggest safety factor. If they haven't properly equipped their car to suit the road conditions they are putting themselves and others at risk. Sure driving nice and slow is safer, however why should they hold up everyone else that is operating a vehicle capable of safely navigating the road and a quicker speed?
When someone drives slow it forces others to sometimes perform risky maneuvers to go around said slow driver. Also go as slow as you want without proper tires and you'll still slide in corners, you'll still take longer to accelerate from a stop.and you'll still take much longer to come to a stop.
Additionally it is important to actually KNOW how to drive in adverse conditions. Having the training and experience is invaluable.
The vehicle may be the most well adapted for winter driving, best system, best tires, best visibility. It always come down to the driver.

orbital said:

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I have Michelin LTX M/S all-seasons,, they have particularly soft sidewalls which allow the tire to grip well in winter conditions*

*summer turn-in response is sacrificed a bit.

Click to expand...

heh, LTX M/S...those are exactly the ones I have been using on the 4runner since 1999

with the economy suffering, more and more peeps are driving in winter with
bald-*** tires, cuz tires are def not cheap. winter tires or not, you have to look
out for the other dude...winter tires will certainly help with evasive maneuvers

for my little subcompact, I noticed that cornering off-camber downhill is entirely
predictable now... and if/when the butt wants to come around, I can control it very well and stop it

could never do that with the baloney-skin M/S that came with the car from the factory,
once loose, you are going to swing all the way around

Amen to that.

The drivers make more of a difference than anything.

A great example are the numbnuts in SUVs that forget that EVERYONE has 4 wheel BRAKES, and that just because you CAN GO 80 mph in the shoulder in a blizzard, DOESN'T mean you can STOP fast enough to not hit the guy pulled over to clean the ice from his wipers.



I was on the way back from CT a few years back in a severe snow storm...people were getting stuck on 6 lane hwys, etc...it was a mess. Yet, there were Ford Exploders passing everyone in the shoulder, and, then, a few miles further, crashing into guard rails, cars on the should because they couldn't see and/or were clearing their wipers, etc. There was an accident about every mile...it was insane. :duh2:

I was in a modified 4wd rig used for off road rescue and recovery work...and had plenty of traction and ground clearance, etc...but I was plodding along with the sedans, etc....because there was no other safe way to proceed.



All Season Tires are a compromise...in the winter, they are better than summer tires, worse than snow tires, etc. In the Summer, they are worse than summer tires but better than winter tires, etc.




I personally hate All Season Tires because they handle so poorly compared to other street tires. I took off a set of new Tiempos many years ago because it felt like I had no air in the tires the first time I changed lanes...VERY wishy washy handling.

I do have spare rims and tires in my garage for the several vehicles involved....and if I lived in an apartment or other place where storage was a problem...I can see biting the bullet and going All Season.

127.0.0.1 said:

heh, LTX M/S...those are exactly the ones I have been using on the 4runner since 1999

Click to expand...

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The reason I mentioned them is because of the sidewall construction & sipes, trying to point out differences in tire construction ect.
Obviously I know they are not true 'winter' tires.


On a 4wd truck/suv, they get it done four seasons a year and laaaaaaaast a long time.:thumbsup:


Passenger cars are different, a dedicated winter setup is a must.

orbital said:

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The reason I mentioned them is because of the sidewall construction & sipes, trying to point out differences in tire construction ect.
Obviously I know they are not true 'winter' tires.


On a 4wd, they get it done four seasons a year and laaaaaaaast a long time.:thumbsup:

Click to expand...

Other tires that are great for that are the BFG AT ko and the Goodyear Duratrac. They work best in deeper snow than on ice though...as they are fairly aggressively treaded.

on a side note, more about LTX M/S...

a) can get me a mile up my skidder road driveway to the cabin



b) and has enough grip to do woods-buggy duty

I agree that the driver makes more of a difference that anything - but not at all for the reasons above.

Just driving slow, as noted already, is not the solution to the problem and in the end may cause more problems than it resolves.

Being an observant and educated driver also means knowing the limitations of your equipment. If you can't afford snows, or are driving on near bald all seasons, you need to be able to assess the road conditions and consider the strong possibility that just staying off the road is the safest decision.

The problem with SUVs (and I am a AWD SUV driver now - owning a very capable 4WD SUV at that) is that people just assume that they are in a SUV with 4WD and they can drive through anything - and they just turn off their brain. Read any MotorTrend, TireRack or Car and Driver about winter driving and they will all say the A/4WD helps to get you going and staying on the straight path but has NOTHING to do with how fast you can stop. In terms of stopping the smaller lighter car has the advantage and the big and heavy SUV will take longer to stop.

In general people are pretty stupid and don't follow the basic safety rules of the road and weather driving. In good weather follow 5 car lengths, in rain double that, in snow and ice you need to at least triple or 4x that. The road I commute on is wicked scary - every morning the average speed is 85-90 mph and people literally follow 10-15ft behind in a constant row of cars 3 lanes deep. I am just waiting for that one day when something happens because the pile up is going to be 20 cars long.

I have full confidence in my driving skills and have both on and off track training and experience. I also know the full limitations of my vehicle. Whenever I get a new vehicle or new tires I take it in an unplowed lot the first snow and test those limits so I don't reach any surprises on the road.

For the past few years since I have been car commuting a lot of miles I have learned to drive based on the person behind me rather than in front. I know I always have enough room to stop in an emergency so I give extra distance based on how fast and close the person behind me is driving so I can stop a little slower so they have time to wake-up and react and not rear-end me.

Long and short of it is that a little common sense (which most people lack) goes a LONG way. For most people it's just best to stay inside until the roads are plowed.

LOL

OK, pics?




BFG AT ko's:


















I now have a set of BFG KM2's and Interco LTB's as well, which are better if the snow is deeper, but worse if the snow is harder packed:

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:

Long and short of it is that a little common sense (which most people lack) goes a LONG way. For most people it's just best to stay inside until the roads are plowed.

Click to expand...

I like your whole post. What really rings true, and lots of people won't admit it, is the last part.

People that drive slower than me and people that drive faster than me are crazy. Very few can and will admit they don't possess the right tools and or skills.

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:

....
Long and short of it is that a little common sense (which most people lack) goes a LONG way. For most people it's just best to stay inside until the roads are plowed.

Click to expand...

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Good post,

People really need to pay attention, not think their car/truck will save them out of any situation.
I'll argue against diver assist crap on new cars only because of the inattentive , nonchalant attitude it promotes
that the car will save them & they can sit back and scroll through their emails....

Winter driving is an exercise in what cars can't do,
I'm so ingrained on pumping my brakes, I do it year 'round (left footed)

LOL

I wish that people who didn't have the common sense to know how to drive WOULD HAVE the common sense to stay home if the roads are not clear.

Unfortunately, the same common sense that's missing in the first place seems to prevent the safety valve effect in the second place.

Also - If you ASK people if they are a good driver, 90% of all drivers will tell you that they are above average.

This is because we all value and weight things differently.

IE:

I might think I'm a good driver because I can 4 wheel drift around a track at high speed w/o losing control, and can heel/toe my way through a tight course...and blame my accidents on the slow morons in front of me or they ones who pulled out in front of me, or the blow-out at 100 mph, etc.

You might think you're a good driver because you always drive at 50% of the speed limit, and slow down to 10% if there's a curve..and blame your accidents on the morons going 100 mph that appeared out of nowhere when you pulled out or slowed way down in front of them...etc.

You might be super conservative, and/or drive very few miles in areas of concern, and have no accidents at all...and have no skills whatsoever other than being able to get to work and back, etc.


Some might consider a lack of accidents as the indicator of their prowess, others might consider their skill at controlling the dynamics at high speed or on rough terrain, and so forth...every has their OWN concept of what a "good driver" means.

I think they are all correct, for THEM. So its hard to compare as a general concept...you need to rate the specific skill sets independently...and probably with third party verification if you need the data to be representative.

If you can drive safely from point A to B:
1) without driving to fast and causing risk to others around you.
2) without driving to slow and causing risk to other around you.
3) always using your turn signals and indicate your intentions in advance of doing them
4) making sure it is safe to make you next move before you do it.
Then I would consider you a good driver.

If everyone is doing 70 and you are doing 50 - you are a BAD driver.
If everyone is doing 50 and you are doing the 70mph weave - you are a BAD driver.
If you change lanes on the highway without a blinker flash - you are a BAD driver. (my wife unfortunately)
If you change lanes and insist on squeezing between two cars with barely and wiggle room rather than waiting for a bigger space to move over - you are a BAD driver.
etc,etc, etc blah blah blah
And sorry - I have to throw this dig in - if you drive a Toyata Prius you are a BAD driver and get zero respect from me on the road. Suck it up if you don't like that one.