Malkoff MD2 with M61SHO Run Time Graphs

I just got my M61SHO a few days ago. I was expecting more full output run time on primaries.

Robert_M said:

I just got my M61SHO a few days ago. I was expecting more full output run time on primaries.

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Great data, thanks for posting it. I'd love to see runtimes with 3xCR123 and/or 2x17500/18500's if that's possible.

I set up a SHO for a LEO friend of mine & used a SureFire 9P for just this reason - this module is approaching the upper end of what 2xCR123 primaries can do efficiently, IMO.

Thanks for posting! How much heat did you notice with the 2xCR123 cells? Have a reference to describe to like an M60 or M61?

Flea Bag said:

Thanks for posting! How much heat did you notice with the 2xCR123 cells? Have a reference to describe to like an M60 or M61?

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I was using a fan so I don't have any temperature data.

I wish a more sensible driver had been used for this module. 30 minutes at 1A draw is rediculous. It should be 75+.

Well, I suspect it was a matter of output vs run times.
For the XPG2 to really show what it can do, it needs to have some power to it, or else it doesn't look like much more than a normal XPG.

So, for those people who want a short handle with 2 batteries, they can recharge or replenish more often.
For those who are okay with using an MD3 battery tube, or even an MD4 battery tube, they can have a lot more run time.

I think that Gene thinks in these terms.
He offers various size battery banks of MD2, MD3, and MD4, and lets you choose your run times that way, by your battery bank configurations.

He can't "force" this emitter to be more efficient and run for some arbitrary "75 minutes" at 450 lumens by magic. If the emitter needs this much current to run at 450 lumens output, and there is only a certain amount of energy storage in the battery type, then it runs out at the time the battery depletes.
Nobody else out there is going to do any better. It's inherent in the current needed vs the battery capacity.

Interesting, I agree that the runtime on two primaries does look shorter than it should be. I wonder if surefire or other US/japanese cells might show a slightly longer flat regulation time, still I wouldn't expect more than 45 minutes of flat output from that driver. Total runtime on primaries looks good to me, a full hour before it drops below 200 lumens and a long enough tail that you won't be left in the dark like with lithium ions.

N/Apower said:

I wish a more sensible driver had been used for this module. 30 minutes at 1A draw is rediculous. It should be 75+.

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The item that may be a closer fit to your runtime goal is the M61 - I expect that it will be upgraded for the XPG-2 at some point, meeting your runtime needs.

The [M61] full output runtime is approximately 2 hours on two CR123 primary batteries [...]

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The funny thing is that when the M61 first came out, it was criticized by some for being not driven as hard as some would like.
I think that most folks would be happy with the two choices at present: an efficient M61 and a hard-driven M61SHO. :shrug:

There is more competition for top-quality high output dropins these days - IMO it's a good idea to have a few different output choices for each Malkoff line.

Kestrel said:

The item that may be a closer fit to your runtime goal is the M61 - I expect that it will be upgraded for the XPG-2 at some point, meeting your runtime needs.



The funny thing is that when the M61 first came out, it was criticized by some for being not driven as hard as some would like.
I think that most folks would be happy with the two choices at present: an efficient M61 and a hard-driven M61SHO. :shrug:

There is more competition for top-quality high output dropins these days - IMO it's a good idea to have a few different output choices for each Malkoff line.

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I have an m61 and find it completely inadequate compared to my surefire m600c. It's like if my m600c had a moon mode with crappy tint.

I wish the sho had the more applicable driver voltage.

Your runtime one two CR123 primaries seems a lot different from my personal tests with the M61SHO. I am going to run another test with some Battery Station Primaries. I will respond here with the results I get and will revise the specs on the SHO if necessary. I appreciate the input.

Gene43 said:

Your runtime one two CR123 primaries seems a lot different from my personal tests with the M61SHO. I am going to run another test with some Battery Station Primaries. I will respond here with the results I get and will revise the specs on the SHO if necessary. I appreciate the input.

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Very stand-up, Gene! I would ask, though...is it possible that the specs on the SHO could be revised, instead, so that us guys wanting to use it with 2-cell lights aren't left in the dark?

Yes, I will do that.

I just added a graph to my first post showing the results using two new SureFire CR123A batteries. The full output regulated run time is 31 minutes. This is less than the 38 minutes using two new Titanium batteries. Since I use only rechargeable batteries these days, I'm not concerned about the short full output regulated run time on primaries. But this will be important information for those who prefer primaries.

Would be interesting to see what runtime it will produce on a 3 cell light.

Indeed for the guy who uses an M61SHO with rechargeables as well, a 3xCR123 setup is more likely to be used as backup since I'm guessing that such a person will be using a minimum of 2x17500 or larger, requiring a 3-cell body length for better runtimes on full output. Thought I read somewhere that the SHO outputs too little light when used on low (high/low ring) and 2x li-ions. Maybe I got mixed up with the standard M61 here.

M61 SHO works just fine on low with 2 x CR123. The regular M61 output on low is noticeably lower on a single 18650 vs 2 x CR123 but still usable in my experience.

Flea Bag said:

Indeed for the guy who uses an M61SHO with rechargeables as well, a 3xCR123 setup is more likely to be used as backup since I'm guessing that such a person will be using a minimum of 2x17500 or larger, requiring a 3-cell body length for better runtimes on full output. Thought I read somewhere that the SHO outputs too little light when used on low (high/low ring) and 2x li-ions. Maybe I got mixed up with the standard M61 here.

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GeoBruin said:

M61 SHO works just fine on low with 2 x CR123. The regular M61 output on low is noticeably lower on a single 18650 vs 2 x CR123 but still usable in my experience.

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Sorry for not specifying: Well it's stil usable on low for sure, but a huge drop in output from the few hundred that the SHO puts out and in contradiction to the abilities of the SHO.

Someone estimated the low on the SHO to be below 8 or 9 lumens, even less maybe on 2xCR123. Outdoors, (which is where the SHO is worth the extra money over the M61 or M60), the low of the SHO is much too low on 2xCR123 and on high, runtime is too short for the same setup and for 2xRCR123s or 18350. Of course, there are many who use the SHO exactly as I described but I'm just saying that the SHO was built for outdoor use and at its high setting and the most sensible runtime for that config is done on 2x18500 minimum so in that case, I would think that most SHO users would go for MD3 or MD4 bodies or 3xCR123 minimum.

I have performed some testing of my own and have revised the specs as noted below and on the website. My initial testing was performed with a power supply.

This testing was performed using Battery Station primaries. The old numbers are correct.....for a power supply. For some reason, in my original zeal, I failed to consider that the batteries would somewhat choke at the high current. These numbers are much more conservative and a realistic appraisal for battery (real world) powered operation. I apologize if anyone feels mislead as this was not my intention.

The output of the dropin is approximately 385 measured out the front lumens. Your output may vary according to lens/bezel configuration. The current draw is 1000ma at 6 volts. The full output runtime is approximately 45 minutes on two CR123 primary batteries with a long taper as voltage drops. On three cells the full output runtime is approximately 1.25 hrs with a long taper. On four cells the full output runtime is approximately 2 hours with a long taper.

Thanks,
Gene Malkoff

Many thanks and especially to Gene for the very helpful information!

I had a couple of questions on the M61SHO:

(1) Does it have a lens (like the M60) or not?

(2) What runtime should I expect if I run it using 2x18650 -- AW, 2600 mAh

(3) How much more efficient is the XP-G2 LED in the M61SHO, relative to the MC-E LED that was available in the M60 MC-E?

(4) What type of output does the M61SHO deliver vs. the very floody output given out by the MC-E? From the description it seems as if it would be less floody (the MC-E was VERY floody).

Many thanks for any insight on these questions.

Thanks for the update Gene. I don't think anyone believes you would do it on purpose and now it's fixed!

That said, it would sure be nice to get that extra little bit of oomph from the XP-G2 with the driver of the original M61. Do you have any plans to produce such a combo?

Gene43 said:

I have performed some testing of my own and have revised the specs as noted below and on the website. My initial testing was performed with a power supply.

This testing was performed using Battery Station primaries. The old numbers are correct.....for a power supply. For some reason, in my original zeal, I failed to consider that the batteries would somewhat choke at the high current. These numbers are much more conservative and a realistic appraisal for battery (real world) powered operation. I apologize if anyone feels mislead as this was not my intention.

The output of the dropin is approximately 385 measured out the front lumens. Your output may vary according to lens/bezel configuration. The current draw is 1000ma at 6 volts. The full output runtime is approximately 45 minutes on two CR123 primary batteries with a long taper as voltage drops. On three cells the full output runtime is approximately 1.25 hrs with a long taper. On four cells the full output runtime is approximately 2 hours with a long taper.

Thanks,
Gene Malkoff

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