Muliti-Channel, long range, walkie-talkie 2-way radio suggestions wanted

lightyearsaway

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Hi guys,

I want some suggestions for some walkie-talkies.

Firstly would like to ask what I should be looking for in a decent pair? These would be used for emergencies only. If for some reason something happens and I and other family members have to separate from the group that we can still keep in contact with each other. Note, these would be used in a city with buildings, so I already know i might run into some issues, however, there is a chance that we would not be far apart, but would need to keep in touch with each other. Including between building floors. Might also be used for overseas travel.

1. I don't think it exists but I want something that uses normal alkaline batteries because I do not plan to use these expect in an extreme emergency. So recharging types just aren't going to work because I know if they sit too long the batteries will die.

2. Long Range. 10-30mi The Cobra CXR875's are nice. Longer would be better, but I think when it comes to walkie-talkies in the under $100 price range, that is probably the longest distance I am going to get out of them.

3. Price under US$100 for a pair.

4. Other features, not sure yet. multi channel for sure and that the frequencies can be changed. I believe that is what is meant by channels, but I see most are only around 22 channels, I did use a pair recently that basically the frequencies can be changes by .001 or something like that, and it was almost infinite channels, very small walkie talkies too, good quality, but I am guessing they were probably a few hundred bucks too.

5. VOX function might come in handy, but not required.

Thanks
 

Obijuan Kenobe

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You should read up on line of sight transmission principles. You will need to understand how radio signals propagate in order to understand how WRONG these estimated ranges are in general use.

Any VHF or UHF handheld which give you a range farther than 5 miles without having more the 5W of power is just silly. Any that gives you a longer range than 5 miles with at least 5W should justify that with the caveat that it requires a near line of sight transmission path.

Keeping these limitations in mind, anything with noise reduction would be beneficial.

obi
 

lightyearsaway

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Generally I can guess, one wall cuts the signal in half. And yeah I was thinking that the 15-30mi range without being in a line of sight at only 5W of power was probably not going to good to be true.

Can you make some recommendations on some decent radios then for me? Anything on ebay would probably pretty much work right?
 

AnAppleSnail

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You run into power limits fast. Ham handsets are impressive. My roomie developed a system using them to send data by radio s across campus. You have to pass a test to use them and there are limits, but they get past the "too weak to reach" power, if I recall correctly.
 

Obijuan Kenobe

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The only HT I have is a Kenwood, which is a UHF/VHF trans, with HF reception even in CW. But that is a 200 USD rig when used. But two of these would cover all your bases and then some.

These talkies can be useful in the urban environment because the UHF/VHF signals bounce nicely off those surfaces. But alot of bouncing is not good for clear transmissions of course.

Sorry I cannot be of more help. I might try to look for talkies designed for backcountry use. These would at least be waterproof as well perhaps. And yeah, short range emergency stuff (like coordinating between two cars or hiking parties) would doable with most inexpensive talkies. Maybe in this regard, your battery type is indeed the most important choice.

obi
 

bobfa

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lightyearsaway, I see that your .sig says Taiwan. So I cannot help you as far as licensing and legality in your country. Two way radio communications even more complex than flashlights! Distances vary dramatically with the environment, terrain, urban vs rural. There are typically two major frequency ranges for HT's; VHF ~150 Mhz and UHF ~450Mhz. In general VHF will go further than UHF per watt of power. But, UHF is better in urban due to its ability to "reflect off of things". There is significant RF pollution around us now with everything from Cell Phones to wireless thermometers. All of this creates an environment where short range communications is limited even more due to interference. Assuming that you have no infrastructure to support your communications your range can go from shouting distance out to a couple of miles between two HT's. Put the HT on your belt with the antenna up against your body and things fall apart quickly. Increase the frequency in urban areas and you may get better coverage, in rural not so much. Add rain, wet leaves and your range drops further.

One poster suggested that you look into Amateur Radio to help in your study. I would agree with that statement. I am an Amateur Radio operator and I work in the communications industry and I know that we cannot answer all the questions in a short set of posts here.

RJF
 

Lou Minescence

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The old fashioned "meeting location" would be the best bet in an emergency.
A park, relatives property, etc...
Some of these FRS or GMRS radios could be of help, but you really can't be more than a mile apart to use them unless you are on hill tops or wide open terrain.
 

lightyearsaway

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Thanks all, this is what I figured. Licensing shouldn't be an issue here with 2 way radios, Amature radio however, yes we still need a license.

yes, I know that you cannot answer all my questions in a short set of posts here. Am looking for general information for emergency situations. As you may know Taiwan sits on the edge of the ring of fire, there are two major plates around us, the biggest threat are earthquakes and typhoons that cause major flooding. So it is not if, it is when and sometimes every year.

We have a meeting location already, we determined this many years ago. A mile apart or so might just be ok because the overall distance of the Taipei area is quite small. If we are in the same proximity at least we could try to use them. In addition I might be using these radios for other things, so, it would not be a waste.
 

icecube

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Firstly would like to ask what I should be looking for in a decent pair? These would be used for emergencies only.<snip> Note, these would be used in a city with buildings, so I already know i might run into some issues, however, there is a chance that we would not be far apart, but would need to keep in touch with each other. Including between building floors. Might also be used for overseas travel.

Anything involving cities usually benefits more from UHF radios rather than VHF although VHF can work fine and still does to this day, in my area it's more of Fire freqs. Public Safety (Police) and Medical units generally use UHF somewhere in the 460MHz range. VHF does do better versus foilage and mild hilly areas.

1. I don't think it exists but I want something that uses normal alkaline batteries because I do not plan to use these expect in an extreme emergency. So recharging types just aren't going to work because I know if they sit too long the batteries will die.

You are going to run into a couple of problems with that model: 1) Alkaline cells have TERRIBLE energy density; 2) the radio will be physically bigger, which may or may not be a problem; and 3) radios of good report don't always use AA type cells. Radios are terrific battery sinks, primarily when they are transmitting. Even my scanner (Uniden 396T) can go through three 2700mAh batteries in less than 8 hours just sitting on one active frequency with moderate traffic -- cut that by about a third if it's in scan mode, particularly if it's monitoring a trunked system (like SF Bay Area BART).

2. Long Range. 10-30mi The Cobra CXR875's are nice. Longer would be better, but I think when it comes to walkie-talkies in the under $100 price range, that is probably the longest distance I am going to get out of them.

If someone has a radio that fits those specifications and price range, I will guarantee the radio network will just about implode overnight. 1) Those radios are FRS/GMRS specification. I can come up with multiple google results describing the terrible quality of those things. 2) You will not get 10 miles (16km) or 30 miles (50km) out of one of those unless you are in very specific cirumstances that are notoriously difficult to setup and duplicate. This would be like a cool dry day on the top of a 4km high mountain with no clouds or other interference for 50km in every direction, at night. 3) I spent $150 each for some Tekk NT-10 business radios that were programmed with MURS freqs (~150MHz range) and they are decent. You'll want some kind of business or better class radio. The money is worth it.

3. Price under US$100 for a pair.

At that price point, you won't get much. "Bubblepacks" as they are called, are lightly esteemed by the radio community. They do have their place, but don't be surprised if you get about 1.5km MAX out of them, and that's in an open field or the like. Urban area like a shopping mall? Most likely, less than 100 meters. 200 tops. Residential area? 300 meters, if that.

4. Other features, not sure yet. multi channel for sure and that the frequencies can be changed. I believe that is what is meant by channels, but I see most are only around 22 channels, I did use a pair recently that basically the frequencies can be changes by .001 or something like that, and it was almost infinite channels, very small walkie talkies too, good quality, but I am guessing they were probably a few hundred bucks too.

Multi-channel for what may I ask? Radios that permit changing frequency on the unit itself without something like a PC programmer are not cheap. By .001 frequency resolution? If that's in the MHz range I don't think that is technically possible, reliably at least. Maybe in the GHz range, yes, but "471.001MHz" is not something you'll see in the wild. (Has to do with offsets and all that complicated stuff, I think for the 470MHz band the offset is like 12.5KHz, which means from 470.000, 470.0125, 470.0250, etc...)

5. VOX function might come in handy, but not required.

Given your requirements and situation described, I would skip that.

A channel is just a fancy name for a frequency. Let's presume MedCom (medical communication) channel 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are programmed into our radios because we...are paramedic unit. (I'm not, but just using it as an example.) In the programming, (we'll skip the repeater duplex feature for simplicity for now, and just say it's simplex where transmission and receiving occur on the same frequency) the frequency for channel 1 might be 463.000MHz, channel 2 might be 463.025MHz, channel 3 might be 463.050MHz, and so on. Because it's easier to say stuff like "Unit 23 switch to channel 4" rather than say "Unit 23 switch to four-six-three-point-zero-two-five megahertz", we use channel.

A note about those bubblepack radios: Don't buy them, unless you know what you're expecting out of them. "Privacy Codes" are a marketer's dream. There is not such thing as privacy on a radio unless you're dealing with concepts like encryption or frequency hopping; and both can be cracked by those with means. What those "codes" mean is simple CTCSS or DCS sub-audible tones that are continuously broadcast as one radio is transmitting. If any radio in reception "range" has the same tone, then it will open the squelch and allow the traffic through. If someone has no tone programmed, then it picks up all regardless of it's tone. None of this stops someone capturing the tone with a capable scanner (on mine it'll popup within seconds showing something like C123.0, which is a CTCSS tone, DCS would be like D143) and programming that into their own radio and now they're on your network. (More advanced folk will split their duplex freqs so one has CTCSS and the other has DCS, although that can still be worked around.)

As for what I can recommend for your area, you will have to do more research on your own because I'm not aware of the legalities of your area. This is a really good time to start reading up on lots of principles concerning radios. It's a very broad area as a hobby and there's a lot for pretty much everybody to tinker with. If you were in the US, I'd probably say a professional quality UHF radio on a GMRS band with your own GMRS repeater wouldn't be that bad -- although securing a repeater and a good location to put it (mountain/hilltop) can be a real problem. There's always other prospects like iDEN or Skywave (?) that bounce radio signals off the ionosphere (troposphere?) and can get good coverage but have their own problems to worry about.

Remember: there are five basic principles concerning radios:

1.) Location. Higher is usually better. This is the most important principle.
2.) Antenna. Better quality equals better reception and transmission, for a longer range.
3.) Receiver quality.
4.) Transmitter quality.
5.) Power. More is not always better.

You can talk to Japan from the west coast of the USA on one watt of power but that is with very specific hardware and setups. (Shortwave?) Bubblepacks fit into just about none of those catagories: they have terrible antennas, shoddy Rx and Tx circuitry (cost is their selling point) and reportedly, their transmitting power can be way out of whack (i.e. less than 300mW ERP on FRS, a hair under a watt ERP on GMRS. I read a report on that a couple of years ago).

EDIT:

oops...ten days old. oh well. I've seen six or seven year thread bumps so it can't be that bad.
 
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AVService

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You can actually pick up highly capable Chinese made copies of the popular Japanese Ham HT's now very cheap here in the U.S.
I have no idea how they are priced where yo are but here you could get a pair of VHF/UHF HT for $100.00 and they are pretty nice units.
The ones that I have bought are not just VHF/UHF units but also FM tuners and have bright LED lighting on them too.

http://www.worldwidedx.com/product-reviews/135716-baofeng-uv-5r-vhf-uhf-ht-review.html

With a home brew better antenna attached or just a Mag Mount Mobile on a portable ground plane(cookie sheet) you can expect much better performance and you can also easily add a small RF amplifier to any HT to get it to transmit in the 20 to 40 watt range on easily carried battery power.

I get around the battery power issue by using 4ah or 7ah SLA battery packs like you will find powering alarm panels and emergency exit lighting.
These are easily charged and the charge easily maintained with cheap small trickle chargers and they are easily carried in small Fanny Packs or something similar and they can have a Cigar lighter receptacle easily attached from which you would charge and operate the HT.

I have used a setup like this several times in emergency situations and you can get a lot of talk time from a 4ah battery compared to just the built-in batteries in any HT.
I usually carry 2 Yaesu VX-7 and with a 7ah pack have used it them support of Salvation Army relief efforts for days at a time.


Becoming a legal amateur operator is very easy too and something to look into if interested.

Just food for thought.

Ed
 
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Norm

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You can actually pick up highly capable Chinese made copies of the popular Japanese Ham HT's now very cheap here in the U.S.
I have no idea how they are priced where yo are but here you could get a pair of VHF/UHF HT for $100.00 and they are pretty nice units.
The ones that I have bought are not just VHF/UHF units but also FM tuners and have bright LED lighting on them too.

http://www.worldwidedx.com/product-reviews/135716-baofeng-uv-5r-vhf-uhf-ht-review.html

With a home brew better antenna attached or just a Mag Mount Mobile on a portable ground plane(cookie sheet) you can expect much better performance and you can also easily add a small RF amplifier to any HT to get it to transmit in the 20 to 40 watt range on easily carried battery power.

I get around the battery power issue by using 4ah or 7ah SLA battery packs like you will find powering alarm panels and emergency exit lighting.
These are easily charged and the charge easily maintained with cheap small trickle chargers and they are easily carried in small Fanny Packs or something similar and they can have a Cigar lighter receptacle easily attached from which you would charge and operate the HT.

I have used a setup like this several times in emergency situations and you can get a lot of talk time from a 4ah battery compared to just the built-in batteries in any HT.
I usually carry 2 Yaesu VX-7 and with a 7ah pack have used it them support of Salvation Army relief efforts for days at a time.

Over here the FCC is clear than in an emergency situation you can pretty much use any and all means of communications you can find if needed,I have no idea how it works where you are but I imagine the last thing that will be policed will be radio transmissions really?

On the other hand becoming a legal amateur operator is very easy too and something to look into if interested.

Just food for thought.

Ed

Your proposal is illegal please see rule 11

This type of equipment can only be operated by the license holder of an appropriate Amateur Radio License.

Please do not suggest illegal solutions or this thread will be closed - Norm
 
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Norm

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2. Long Range. 10-30mi The Cobra CXR875's are nice. Longer would be better, but I think when it comes to walkie-talkies in the under $100 price range, that is probably the longest distance I am going to get out of them.

The only way this sort of range would be achievable is to use an existing repeater or one unit is high enough, mountain top or multi story building.

I suggest you use a couple of cellular phones with prepaid sim cards for the country you are in.

Any form of two way radio will be subject to the communication laws in whichever country you visit, hand held to hand held range will be short and subject to other RF interference especially in major cities.

Norm
 

AVService

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Norm
The link you provided is not what I was expecting?
I was in no way proposing anything illegal nor was my reading of the FCC rules out of line I think?

I apologize if you don't see it that way and I will happily edit my post if you like?
Ed
 

Norm

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I was in no way proposing anything illegal nor was my reading of the FCC rules out of line I think?
I think you need to check the regs Ed, this sort of equipment not being type approved can't be operated without the necessary license.

It's very easy for an inexperienced operator using one of these broad band devices to cause interference to emergency and other services.

Norm
 

lovedavdubs

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I came across this thread in my Google search, and wanted to reviving it for a quick question. I also live in Taiwan, and I'm a bit puzzled on the topic of CB radio frequencies. I have a Cobra 29LX CB radio that I brought back from the US to mount in my Jeep. I just discovered that Taiwan CBs operate at a higher frequency than the US. (US. being 27MHz). After reading through this thread I'm wondering if it is legal and or possible to use this CB here.
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer
 

Chrontius

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I came across this thread in my Google search, and wanted to reviving it for a quick question. I also live in Taiwan, and I'm a bit puzzled on the topic of CB radio frequencies. I have a Cobra 29LX CB radio that I brought back from the US to mount in my Jeep. I just discovered that Taiwan CBs operate at a higher frequency than the US. (US. being 27MHz). After reading through this thread I'm wondering if it is legal and or possible to use this CB here.
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer

Probably not, but some countries bowed to the onslaught of imported US radios. Still, you'll have more people to talk to with the local standard.
 

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