Have Surefire done enough to capture headlamp users?

I've bought both a Saint (recently)and a Minimus (last year) partly because I believe in the durability and warranty of Surefire products and also because both these lights seem to meet my own needs. However, looking at the myriad of specialised manufacturers of headlamps I wonder if Surefire has to do a lot more to make itself more popular amongst those with a specific need for a headlamp? Having bought a much cheaper Petzl for my wife very recently I'm aware of the difference in quality of materials and the warranty between these two manufacturers but am not sure if the performance of the Surefire headlamps is superior to something much cheaper but more tailored for its niche market? Although I've cited Petzl I know there are other equally well known competitors who also make similar and well performing products.

They will have to cut the price by half - 100 lumens for 200$ is a mad price. For this money I'll have Petzl Nao modded to XP-G2 and Panasonic 3400Mah . Variable light-output you say ? For outdoor I usually need two modes - high and low. High-strength aerospace aluminum body, Mil-Spec hard-anodized for extreme durability and watter resistance - nice thing but for caving I still need a little more juice .

Suggestions :
- 18650 power supply
- 300-400 lumens max.
- flippable diffuser
- two types of control variable / 3-4 modes on the knob.
- 100 $

I want to get into Surefire's for the American backing, quality, reliability, etc etc etc but I just can't stomach 2x, 3x, 4x the price of a flashlight compared to other brands.

Get those prices inline with other vendors and I'll be all over them.

This is the sort of thing I want to know. Given that headlamps are a niche market, Surefire either isn't doing their homework or hasn't been able to ascertain exactly what headlamp users seem to want/need. The Saint has one of the best (IMHO) battery cases available but they dropped the Saint in favour of a single cell Minimus which has a much more limited appeal for those who want/require either long run times or the ability to mix and match available battery types that Saint was capable of using. The Maximus whilst a great product hasn't attracted much attention as yet and is very expensive compared to most of the competition with a similar output. Whilst Surefire has a well deserved reputation in tactical lights (and thus can charge a premium) is it wasting it's time making headlamps or does it need to do something more radical to make itself a bigger player in the headlamp market? Perhaps this is one area that Surefire can't easily crack?

Not only Surefire have a problems with headlamps - Olight is also a quite renown trademark, but they only buy boosted version of cheap Chinese headlamp that finally are going to sell out for 18-20$, after a year of keeping it in the warehouse... Brand stretching is not necessarily the best way of increasing income.

I have used a Miniumus, and own a Minimus Vision.

First, the claimed output of a hundred lumens is a bit conservative. My Minimus Vision (claimed under a hundred lumens) is almost as bright as my Zebralight CR123A headlamp. The color on the Vision is gorgeous too.

However, Surefire headlamps all have glaring problems: a ringy beams, a prism that is the most annoying thing in the world, and a squeaky/stiff rotator that makes it impossible to adjust the light one-handed.


The quality versus cost is simply not proportional.

Jeff S. said:

I have used a Miniumus, and own a Minimus Vision.

First, the claimed output of a hundred lumens is a bit conservative. My Minimus Vision (claimed under a hundred lumens) is almost as bright as my Zebralight CR123A headlamp. The color on the Vision is gorgeous too.

However, Surefire headlamps all have glaring problems: a ringy beams, a prism that is the most annoying thing in the world, and a squeaky/stiff rotator that makes it impossible to adjust the light one-handed.


The quality versus cost is simply not proportional.

Click to expand...

I too have a Vision, and had a bit of a play with a Minimus (which I found somewhere I would least expect to find a Surefire, but that another story)

The Vision has a brilliant tint, and mine is pretty smooth, although there is some rings around the outside edge of the beam.

As for the stiff adjuster - mine is loose enough I can adjust the output with one hand, but I did have to tighten the angle adjustment a little bit (there is 2 tiny set screws behind the neoprene pad- It does need reloctiting again now I have adjusted it though)

For what I use a headlamp for, the Minimus Vision is perfect.
it has a nice wide flood that reaches out a useful distance on high, but it also goes low enough to have minimal affect on my night vision (and comes with a red filter - if I need it)
i typically use a headlamp for working in fairly close, when I need both hands free - if I needed something with monster throw, then this wouldn't be the light for me.

I would like the Saint battery pack though, being able to run either 1, 2, or 3 x 123 cells, or 2xAA cells to get longer runtims or if I can't find 123 cells, would be great.

I have a Minimus which I picked up a while ago for $125 USC. I would say that's the biggest issue, they're too expensive and there are many options which may not be as rugged or durable but at a fraction of the price are more appealing. If they were priced better they would be more popular. Price aside there are a few things that would make it even better like a 'lock-out' option for the switch, li-ion capable, battery pack options for extended use, and a smaller/lighter overall housing like the original model would all be good improvements.

dougie said:

... single cell Minimus which has a much more limited appeal for those who want/require either long run times...

Click to expand...

For me, I wouldn't want add another cell to improve runtimes, I would get rid of the power hungry variable rings. That would easily double, perhaps triple, the poor 1lm/50 hr runtimes.

I'm ok with paying up for a quality product, a long warranty, and good customer service, but SF just seems to be more interested in tactical and impractical market. I cannot believe that have only what, 2 or 3 AA products in their entire product line, and no single cell AAs?

I used to own only headlamps, and no flashlights, now I've flipped completely the other way. I've migrated to using traditional flashlights to cover both lantern and headlamp duty. Except for the ZL H series, it's much easier using a traditional flashlight in headlamp duty than vice versa.

In my opinion, few people purchase Surefire headlights. Personally, I think there is too much bad press about lithium battery explosions for most people to want to pay a premium to have them strapped to their heads. I also think they are going to be losing market share for flashlights. They used to be the only company with conservative runtime and lumen ratings. ANSI standards on most lights have leveled the playing field. L.e.d.s have also gotten cheap enough that even a $5 light can put out 100 lumens for a decent amount of time. You can get one of several high quality 500-1,000 lumen lights for under $100. Surefires just can't set themselves apart from the competition anymore like they used to.

Couldnt agree more HoF.

I wouldnt even look to Surefire for a headlamp. Petzl or Zebralight (altho i dont own the former - yet!) all the way.

I wish the Vision were using an XP-G instead of an XR-E emitter. That's significantly boost the output to a level where I'd strongly consider getting one. At the current price point, though, it's really too much. I think the Vision as is selling for $80-100 would be much more appealing, but to pay over that for it having such an old emitter compared with what's available now? I'll pass. The Minimus Vision is very high on my want/need list. But it'll have to be sub $100, or have an emitter upgrade for me to justify buying it at the current price.

I'd appreciate someone modding the Minimus, to put a XP-G in it.

Hooked on Fenix said:

In my opinion, few people purchase Surefire headlights. Personally, I think there is too much bad press about lithium battery explosions for most people to want to pay a premium to have them strapped to their heads. I also think they are going to be losing market share for flashlights. They used to be the only company with conservative runtime and lumen ratings. ANSI standards on most lights have leveled the playing field. L.e.d.s have also gotten cheap enough that even a $5 light can put out 100 lumens for a decent amount of time. You can get one of several high quality 500-1,000 lumen lights for under $100. Surefires just can't set themselves apart from the competition anymore like they used to.

Click to expand...

I agree on some points except the lithium battery reason. Zebralight has several popular models that use CR123, 18650s platform and they sell like hot cakes. I think the problem with SF breaking into the headlamp market is their inability to keep cost down to reasonable range and that their lights don't really stand out from the crowd to justify the extra cost. The only thing I like about their headlamps is the rotary switch/dimmer as apposed to clicking 50 times to enter modes and levels.

mega_lumens said:

I agree on some points except the lithium battery reason. Zebralight has several popular models that use CR123, 18650s platform and they sell like hot cakes. I think the problem with SF breaking into the headlamp market is their inability to keep cost down to reasonable range and that their lights don't really stand out from the crowd to justify the extra cost. The only thing I like about their headlamps is the rotary switch/dimmer as apposed to clicking 50 times to enter modes and levels.

Click to expand...

I'd rather SF headlight had a UI like the SF Invictus. I believe its far more energy efficient than the infinite variable rotary dial.

I also wished they put some position-retainment mechanism on the swivel so the whole thing didnt swivel up or down when i adjust the brightness knob. I think they did that for the Maximus.

The design was great, but the weird prismic lens they put on it created all sorts of beam anomalies, very noticeable at the highest lumen outputs ...



I still use it, and believe it or not I trust it to turn on when I require it, as long as the batteries have juice, far more trust than my Zebralight which proved itself untrustworthy.

headlamps ... Petzl, Black Diamond, Lenser, Princeton Tech, Silva, Mammut, ..., whatever the maker is

... all skipped for Zebra H600w

No. If Surefire is serious about getting a good chunk of the headlamp market, they need to do more. I love my SF lights. But my headlap of choice is the Princeton Tec EOS model.