Upgrading surefire G2 NITROLON

I have 2 surefire G2 with the regular incandescent bulbs that I never use and I would like to do led conversions to them. Google showed me a number of options but I know I should ask you guys before I waste my very limited money on some garbage. I would like to mount one of the G2 on my home defense AR and have the other as a edc for myself or my girlfriend. I prefer lots of throw over flood if that makes a difference. I would like to use regular cr123 on the the AR mounted one and have no preference on the other.

Which conversion should I be looking at and what vendor should I get them from?
Thanks!

The nitrolon head on the G2 presents thermal issues as the heat from the LED engine couldn't be transferred away.

More heat = less brightness + shorter lifespan of the emitter.

I would recommend getting a Z44 bezel to replace the standard nitrolon bezel. If your G2 is black, then a Factory Z44 HA black would match nicely.

A Nailbender XP-G2 drop-in with your choice of tint, modes, and amperage is the natural choice for throw with a nice balance of flood for peripheral illumination.

Alternatively, the venerable Malkoff M61 or M60 would be great as well. If you do not wish to spend the extra money for a Z44 bezel, then you can use Malkoff M61L (150 lumens) or the M61LL (100 lumens) with the stock nitrolon bezel.

I own a G2 with a black HA Z44 from Oveready, with Nailbender XP-G2 drop-in rockin' Moonlight-Low Low-Low-Med-Hi modes. I probably want to upgrade the stock tailcap with a McClicky switch.

IMHO, the G2 is the perfect light for cold weather. Hope this helps!

Awwww, don't be picking on those poor G2 nitrolons! I did get a LED drop in that works off two cr123 primaries for my G2. But a better option is: Lighthound has a nice solarforce L2 host for $12.99, and a tailcap pressure switch for $8.99 (A good option for weapon mount applications) and a solarforce LC-XP-G R5 5 mode or single mode drop-in for $17.99 (Don't forget the CPF discount 2%),or if you prefer, the Nailbender XP-G2 drop in Raze mentioned ($35.00 shipped in the US). I have three solarforce lights, good, solid hosts. You can't go wrong given the vast array of P60 drop-ins available. Welcome to CPF!

If you want to keep the G2 battery tube then you will have to use a metal head to dissapate the heat generated by P60 LED modules. The mentioned Z44 from surefire or a Solarforce L2 series head (cheaper) would work fine. Please note that you will probably want a single-mode P60 dropin as the recoil might cause multi-mode P60 dropins to change modes (batteries momentarily looses contact with springs).

As for the type of LED dropin, a dropin based off of a XR-E Q5/R2 LED driven at 1-1.5A with a smooth reflector will provide the best amount of throw for the size. Aspherical setups would throw more, but the lens may not be able to withstand the recoil. A XP-G2 P60 dropin can throw pretty decently, but it cant throw nearly as well as the XR-E.

Another alternative could be the Solarforce M3 or a Solarforce Masterpiece Pro 1 head at the cost of a larger head. The multi-mode on the M3 may or may not work properly depending on the amount of recoil. The Masterpiece Pro 1 could work as it is single mode only.

I'm gonna butt in here, sorry stinger...

1) What is a good condition incandescent G2 worth on the bay? I have an offer from someone to sell me one and I dont want to rip her off, nor do I want to get ripped off.

2) If I only want one or two modes with a max output of 100-150, could I keep the nitrolon body? I really like the idea of a non-metal light. What drop in is recommended? This would be a car fixing light, therefore I don't care about throw, more about flood and decent runtimes

3) What battery would I use? 17650? 18650?

4) Where can I get a good clicky switch conversion...for less than the $40 that oveready is asking??

5) Where do you recommend I search for these parts?



Thanks a ton!

-edit- I stole this thread 'cuz its been 3 days without a reply from OP and I didnt want to start up a new thread just for these questions..

ikeyballz said:

I'm gonna butt in here, sorry stinger...

1) What is a good condition incandescent G2 worth on the bay? I have an offer from someone to sell me one and I dont want to rip her off, nor do I want to get ripped off.

2) If I only want one or two modes with a max output of 100-150, could I keep the nitrolon body? I really like the idea of a non-metal light. What drop in is recommended? This would be a car fixing light, therefore I don't care about throw, more about flood and decent runtimes

3) What battery would I use? 17650? 18650?

4) Where can I get a good clicky switch conversion...for less than the $40 that oveready is asking??

5) Where do you recommend I search for these parts?



Thanks a ton!

-edit- I stole this thread 'cuz its been 3 days without a reply from OP and I didnt want to start up a new thread just for these questions..

Click to expand...

1) Why buy a flashlight that isn't what you want to begin with? (LED drop-in, different switch)

2) A plastic flashlight with an LED conversion, used to work on a car, will presumably be running quite a while. Heat dissipation could become an issue. Aluminum would be a more practical and versatile solution. The only time my converted G2 gets used is the occasional middle-of-the-night trip to the bathroom and looking under beds for hiding felines. I just changed the CR123's. They lasted about 2-3 years. The G2 was my first non-cheapo flashlight. Looking back, I should have spent the extra money and got an aluminum light.

3) A 18650 won't fit in a G2, not sure about the 17650. The tube insert was designed to fit CR123's (16340).

Try the solarforce solution above and you will be all set. You will have many more options available to you. Unless you just have your heart set on a G2.

Good luck ikeyballz!

Ah, I really do have my heart set on the G2 just because I want it to be rubbery/plasticy. I bite down on my lights a lot during auto-work and aluminum/metal bodies are really bad for enamel (so I hear). I read this : http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?190500-Surefire-6PLED-With-Recharchables and it appears that the 17670s will -probably- fit. I'm okay with 60-80 lumens as long as I get a good 4 hours + of usable runtime with it. Since the original SFs came with 80L in plastic bodies, am I safe to assume as long as that output (and power usage as a result) is kept, it'll be ok?

17670's will definitely fit. These have another advantage over 2xCR123 & 2xRCR123 - most LED modules will be only semi-regulated at the voltage range of a single LiIon rechargeable, so output will be slightly less but most importantly, generated heat will be less compared to a two-cell setup.

Please keep in mind what others pointed out previously; that there aren't many choices for reduced-output LED modules compatible with the poorer thermal properties of the G2. The best choices would be Malkoff, Nailbender, and perhaps KosPap.

ikeyballz said:

[...] I'm okay with 60-80 lumens as long as I get a good 4 hours + of usable runtime with it. Since the original SFs came with 80L in plastic bodies, am I safe to assume as long as that output (and power usage as a result) is kept, it'll be ok?

Click to expand...

If the G2 has a Nitrolon head/bezel assembly, maximum output for your light without risking overheating the LED module is in the Malkoff M61L range, ~120 lumens or so.

If it has an aluminum Z44 head-bezel assembly (more common with the SF G2 LED versions), the light will handle outputs of up to ~200 lumens or so. Gene Malkoff has stated that the full-power Malkoff M60/M61's should be OK in a G2 configured like that (i.e. w/ the aluminum Z44), but I'm pretty conservative so I'd consider that to be borderline. The Malkoff M61's run a touch cooler than the older M60's, so an M61 with a single 17670 LiIon would be about the maximum that I'd consider.

Again, if you don't want to push it with regards to heat, a Malkoff M61L would be a near-perfect module for the G2, ~120 lumens for more than 4 hours. (IIRC PoliceScannerMan got ~10 hours of runtime from the M61L and two CR123's when the module first came out.) Far far far better than the original SF P60LED module from Surefire - more lumens, more runtime, greater reliability, greater resale value, and less heat.
If I had a dollar for every SF G2 out there with a Malkoff 'L' or 'LL' in it, I wouldn't have to be here on CPF at 6:AM on a Sunday morning, lol. ;-)
Best of luck, :wave:

The original SF P60LED drop-in essentially had the same form factor as the common Chinese P60 drop-ins. Thus, I would assume that the heat sinking and thermal transfer characteristics are sufficient as long as you run the drop-in lightly enough.

The original SF drop-in was spec'ed at 80 lumens and I believe it used a Seoul P4 LED (probably a T bin). So most likely, it was driven at 350mA. Forward voltage at that drive current, based on the datasheet, is about 3.25V. So power draw is about 1.1W.

If you take a modern LED like an XP-G2 or XM-L, then you can get around 130-150 lumens at 350mA drive. The XP-G2 Vf is spec'ed at 2.8V, or 1.0W. So you can get ~1.5x-2X the lumens at 10% less power draw.

So if you like to do some moderate tinkering, I'd look for a cheap Chinese XP-G2 drop-in, or get some old Cree XR-E drop-in for a dollar and replace the emitter with an XP-G, XP-G2, or XM-L. I'd also either mod the driver (depending on what the driver is) or also get a $2 AX2002-based buck driver and change out the sense resistor to the appropriate value to give you 350mA drive. Even simpler, if you go with something like 1x17670 for your battery configuration, then I'd use a 1xAMC7135 driver, which should deliver the 350mA drive desired.

thanks guys! I threw some cash down for a P61LL and a pair of 17670s. I'm hoping the 100 lumen rating it has is at lesat 80% accurate - 80L for 8-10 hours sounds pretty good. I do plan on keeping the nitrolon body and heady for now. I'll probably get the upgrade bug and purchase a P61/61L + Z44 head...when my bank account recovers from these purchases. I'm also probably going to end up picking up a mcgizmo switch assembly unless theres some way I can purchase the G2X Pro clicky switch? I checked SF's site and they don't seem to have that as an option to purchase...

Enjoy the Malkoff, you'll find that if you do end up selling any of them, they will retain their resale value better than most of the LED dropins. 17670's are also a good choice as well since they have considerably more energy than a 2xRCR123 configuration of the same length. I would expect that you will get something like 15+ hours of semi-regulated runtime (i.e. flat to slightly declining output) from a single 17670 although I can't be certain of the exact duration - I've never heard anybody complain about the runtime from an 'LL' yet ...

Edit: When you do get a full-power M61, you will find that the 'LL' makes for a nearly perfect 'backup/emergency' configuration, providing enough useful runtime to get through most of the adverse events nowadays ...

Thanks for the help Kestrel!

I figured since this will be a car light with close proximity work too bright is bad anyway. I remember having to turn down my quark X a few times from the max settings while working on my car recently. Thats actually why I started looking for a "car light" - I got _maybe_ one hour of runtime on the Quark AA-X (one AA body mod!) while working on a friends car. Went through two batteries. Really annoying to fumble for batteries when your hands are all greasy!

Kestrel said:

Enjoy the Malkoff, you'll find that if you do end up selling any of them, they will retain their resale value better than most of the LED dropins. 17670's are also a good choice as well since they have considerably more energy than a 2xRCR123 configuration of the same length. I would expect that you will get something like 15+ hours of semi-regulated runtime (i.e. flat to slightly declining output) from a single 17670 although I can't be certain of the exact duration - I've never heard anybody complain about the runtime from an 'LL' yet ...

Edit: When you do get a full-power M61, you will find that the 'LL' makes for a nearly perfect 'backup/emergency' configuration, providing enough useful runtime to get through most of the adverse events nowadays ...

Click to expand...

Kestrel,
This is great information you've provided. I'm new to the forum and enjoying reading your posts.

I'm in a similar dilemma. My SF G2 stopped working a couple of years ago. I bought a cheap LED conversion off e-bay which didn't work...of course I shouldn't be surprised.

How can I possibly test my light to see if it works (it could be that bulb went out after being knocked around or something), other than ordering a new bulb, of course?

I'm a newbie here so any info is appreciated...and if I asked a stupid question I'll expect to hear about it.

Respectfully,

RMR

ikeyballz said:

thanks guys! I threw some cash down for a P61LL and a pair of 17670s. I'm hoping the 100 lumen rating it has is at lesat 80% accurate - 80L for 8-10 hours sounds pretty good. I do plan on keeping the nitrolon body and heady for now. I'll probably get the upgrade bug and purchase a P61/61L + Z44 head...when my bank account recovers from these purchases. I'm also probably going to end up picking up a mcgizmo switch assembly unless theres some way I can purchase the G2X Pro clicky switch? I checked SF's site and they don't seem to have that as an option to purchase...

Click to expand...

Sounds like Gene has yet another satisfied customer. Enjoy ikeyballz!

I'm in a similar dilemma. My SF G2 stopped working a couple of years ago. I bought a cheap LED conversion off e-bay which didn't work...of course I shouldn't be surprised.

Click to expand...

Some of those original Chinese incan replacement LED drop-ins for SF lights were not fitted well for the G2. I had to fiddle with the fit to get good contact with mine. Remember you need both the center spring for the battery pos. contact, and the outer spring that completes the circuit between the battery tube insert and the aluminum drop-in body. Use jumper wires to see if you can get the drop-in to work outside the flashlight. If it works, it's a contact issue with the G2. If not, see if you can pry the driver out of the pill. Check for loose/disconnected wires. If you don't feel comfortable tinkering with the drop-in, there are plenty of CPF'ers who would be glad to look at it for you. Good luck RMR.

One thing about the M60's m61's in G2 bodies. Because there's only a thin bit of aluminum tube to contact the dropin's negative terminal (the brass body of the dropin) sometimes you need to crank the head down a bit tighter than you would with the P60's with outer springs. There will often be a 1mm or so gap between the head and the body. If you take a fine file and carefully bevel the edge of the bottom of the dropin this will fix both problems. This isn't a necessary fix but it makes me feel better If you choose to do this check the fit first in case it happens to be perfect, and remove as little material as possible if you go ahead and bevel the bottom. It's almost just a deburring. I run an M60 WLF/17670 in my yellow G2, having been a flashaholic since before I could walk I can safely say it's been my favorite lighting tool out of all the ones I've ever used. The only thing that would make it better at this point is a mclicky and a new window. Note to self: Surefire hardcoated lexan windows are not immune to brake cleaner.

RMR said:

Kestrel,
This is great information you've provided. I'm new to the forum and enjoying reading your posts.

I'm in a similar dilemma. My SF G2 stopped working a couple of years ago. I bought a cheap LED conversion off e-bay which didn't work...of course I shouldn't be surprised.

How can I possibly test my light to see if it works (it could be that bulb went out after being knocked around or something), other than ordering a new bulb, of course?

I'm a newbie here so any info is appreciated...and if I asked a stupid question I'll expect to hear about it.

Respectfully,

RMR

Click to expand...

Hello RMR, thank you for the kind words. I confess that I am not an expert in the off-brand LED modules, but the issue I come across the most often is one of electrical connection - they are most often not an optimum fit for SureFire hosts (SureFire hosts being a topic I am rather well familiar with) as these inexpensive modules have been made for the off-brand imported "compatible" flashlights instead. The SureFire G2 is more problematic than the other SureFires in this regard, with only its inner sleeve being electrically conducting.

There are numerous solutions for the electrial connectivity issue that have been posted in CPF (some of which here in this thread), but my favorite solution is to just buy a truely SureFire-compatible LED module (Malkoff and Nailbender being the most common) and get on with using a higher quality product that was made closer to home. If and when you sell a high-quality LED module, you will find that they will retain a much higher resale value compared to many of the imported products. For example, I have bought and sold many used Malkoff modules (and a few OR/TorchLab/Moddoo triples) by now; the ones that I have sold have yielded at least equal or even more than my initial 'used' cost. This can be months or even years after their initial purchase.

Hope this helps,

update: I got the G2 in...turns out it was the newer version with the aluminum head! Guess I should've just gone for the M61L instead of the M61LL! Anyway, I threw the M61LL in with a couple of panasonic CR123s - Its just as high as a quark on "hi" and if the runtime graphs/thigns I've been reading are any indication I won't have to swap batteries for a looooong time. I'm going to update this post as soon as I can get a good runtime til protection cuts in.

update update: Ran it on a just off the charger AW 17670 last night. Ran for 10 hours straight with no noticeable drop in output (to my eyes), and then I gave up. I'll recharge and run the test again one day, but damn 10 hours is way more than necessary for any light. I love it!

The tint is a bit greenish though, probably a function of how underdriven the LED is. I'm not complaining about it the hotspot is still nice and white-ish and after i threw on some diffuser film, I have a beautiful mechanics light: decently bright (going to estimate 80ish lumens?), no hotspot to blind you with reflections, and a nice bite-able surface in the back!

Also, I thought I'd hate the momentary on/twist constant on switch but its actually grown on me. Its idiot-proof and simple enough to master. I hate how I cant clean the negative contact on the switch side though...

18650 , 17670 or rcr123 for G2 w/ M60

I am trying to find something that will work good with my light. I now know the ultrafire 16340's do not work.

What would be my best bet to get full power out of the M60 and will fit in a G2? I have heard some 18650's will not fit the G2 body, but they will slowly dim until dead opposed to the 17670's just cutting off after about an hour or so.

Full brightness is desired with a runtime of at least an hour.