I realize that most dealers will discount this light when it is released, but will that discount be enough to justify its purchase? I am sure that some die hard Surefire fans will buy this light, but how about the rest of us. How does Surefire expect to be able to compete against other light manufacturers (Zebra Light, Sunwayman, ect) who offer a similar light for a fraction of the price? Is Surefire that much better? Interested in your thoughts!
How is the new Surefire EB1 worth $220?
- Thread starter Mojer
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Machete God
Enlightened
This is a can of worms you are opening here, hopefully it won't degenerate into a SF vs every-other-flashlight-out-there argument.
I'm not sure if anyone who's already decided that SureFires aren't worth their asking price will be convinced otherwise. But in regards to the EB1, it combines some features not found in models from other manufacturers. Off the top of the head, here are a few:
1. TIR optics that concentrate and project more light to a greater distance (you can make it flood by putting on a diffuser, but you won't be able to make a floody light throw)
2. 2-stage tactical tail switch in the tactical model
3. 2-way clip
And then there's the SF track record for durability and robustness. If the light proves the exception to the majority of its brethren and fails you for whatever reason, there's the SF lifetime warranty to fall back on. I'd opine that the lifetime warranty is also one of the reasons SF lights fetch good prices on the secondary market.
It's a free market, you can decide for yourself whether the EB1 is justifiable, whether at the RRP or the dealer discounted prices. If it doesn't sell, SF will discontinue it in due time (see the S2 Stratum). I have at least 30 SureFire lights, and I've never paid retail price for any of them.
I'm not sure if anyone who's already decided that SureFires aren't worth their asking price will be convinced otherwise. But in regards to the EB1, it combines some features not found in models from other manufacturers. Off the top of the head, here are a few:
1. TIR optics that concentrate and project more light to a greater distance (you can make it flood by putting on a diffuser, but you won't be able to make a floody light throw)
2. 2-stage tactical tail switch in the tactical model
3. 2-way clip
And then there's the SF track record for durability and robustness. If the light proves the exception to the majority of its brethren and fails you for whatever reason, there's the SF lifetime warranty to fall back on. I'd opine that the lifetime warranty is also one of the reasons SF lights fetch good prices on the secondary market.
It's a free market, you can decide for yourself whether the EB1 is justifiable, whether at the RRP or the dealer discounted prices. If it doesn't sell, SF will discontinue it in due time (see the S2 Stratum). I have at least 30 SureFire lights, and I've never paid retail price for any of them.
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jamesmtl514
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yay this thread again!
Its been said countless times, we aren't Surefires main customer.
You probably drive a Kia then, it's similar to a Mercedes but at a fraction of the price.
Wear a Folex, like a Rolex, just much cheaper.
........
Proud owner of 50+ surefire lights
Its been said countless times, we aren't Surefires main customer.
You probably drive a Kia then, it's similar to a Mercedes but at a fraction of the price.
Wear a Folex, like a Rolex, just much cheaper.
........
Proud owner of 50+ surefire lights
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Bwolcott
Enlightened
880arm
Flashlight Enthusiast
If I remember correctly the E1B, which is being replaced, was selling for $160 before we began seeing discounts earlier this year. I expect this new model to be available for retail at around 70% of Surefire's retail which would put it in the neighborhood of $154. This alone may not justify its purchase but I do believe it will sell similarly to its predecessor. I know that I will snatch one up immediately at that price point.
For some folks, the only justification needed is that it's the newest version of a popular Surefire. For others it will have to stand on its own merits which actually remain to be seen. I know that I love the E1B and the thought of a newer version with 70% more output and a 2-stage tailcap is all I need. The only variable to me will be what the beam profile will look like. If it provides a brighter and maybe somewhat larger hot spot I will be a happy camper.
For some folks, the only justification needed is that it's the newest version of a popular Surefire. For others it will have to stand on its own merits which actually remain to be seen. I know that I love the E1B and the thought of a newer version with 70% more output and a 2-stage tailcap is all I need. The only variable to me will be what the beam profile will look like. If it provides a brighter and maybe somewhat larger hot spot I will be a happy camper.
In all honesty, I am not trying to start a fight. I am somewhat new here and am wondering why SF can get away with the prices they charge. Thanks
The Surefire light is very heavy duty, reliable, built with top quality materials, and has excellent fit and finish. If you ever decide to own one you will understand why people love Surefire so much. The other lights you mentioned will be a distant memory. After a Surefire you will not want to own a lesser quality light. In comparison to Surefire, the lights you mentioned are nothing more then toys for little girls.
kj2
Flashaholic
IMO Surefire lights are nothing more or less than a Fenix for example.
kj2
Flashaholic
All the (better) manufactures use the same aircraft-grade aluminum, same HA III finish, same led manufacture, same way of threads on the light.
The only differences are; switches, operation of the light, out-put and the PCB. What makes Surefire better than other lights?! please do tell me..
And don't come with proven quality and durability, we all know that talk- but do tell what Surefire does better on there lights.
There are different grades to the so called aircraft grade aluminum. Not all HA 3 finishes are equal. The threads are very smooth and heavy duty. Heat sinking of the led is much better. Regulation of the voltage to the led is much better. No cheap PWM to worry about. Switch is better quality. Optics are better quality. Electronics are potted and better quality. Battery is cushioned and well protected to protect against poor connections, falls and weapons recoil. Lens is better quality with better quality optical coatings. Led is operated within limits and not pushed beyond limits for premature failures. Much tighter tolerances, and extremely high levels of quality control. Also the leds are picked from better quality bins.
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AnAppleSnail
Flashlight Enthusiast
That's the fun with Capitalism. After all, if it sells at that price it must be worth it. In theory, yes nothing in any flashlight will ever go wrong. After all, the moving parts tend to be sturdy, and the rest is solid-state stuff that ought to last until the copper rusts through. But in practice, things do break. Why?
I don't know. I could list things like mis-fitting parts, wobbly bits, and so on, but that'd be making up things. Let's talk symptoms. If my [quark/fenix/SWM/Surefire] breaks, I get decent warranty service. If my ***fire light breaks, who knows? If my Surefire breaks, will they take care of me? For a lot of customers, that's what matters.
I don't know. I could list things like mis-fitting parts, wobbly bits, and so on, but that'd be making up things. Let's talk symptoms. If my [quark/fenix/SWM/Surefire] breaks, I get decent warranty service. If my ***fire light breaks, who knows? If my Surefire breaks, will they take care of me? For a lot of customers, that's what matters.
Quiksilver
Enlightened
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If Surefire can turn a profit off the EB1 project when MSRP $220, then it doesn't matter what it's 'worth'.
If people would buy it for $500, they would sell it for $500, even if it only cost $10 unit cost to make.
In fact I think there is an E1B for around $500.
What something is "worth" is irrelevant with respect to market price, especially in Surefires target market.
I'm not suggesting you're not, at least partially, correct. But questions are: how do you know this, and compared to what? You've examined all the competitor's lights and compared them all? Anyway this reminds me a bit of Snap-on tools: stratospheric prices with the defenders saying similar things. I now have 3 pieces of Snap-on. They're nice, but still have imperfections I wasn't expecting, for that price. Without knowing materials or manufacturing details, how is one to judge value? Their website doesn't exactly talk about much.
One thing we may tend to forget, in both cases, is that they're USA-made. That alone could account for a large portion of the price difference.
Use the search button that is how I know this. Some people will never appreciate reliability, durability, or quality. Nothing can be done about that. That is why I drive a Porsche 911 and not a Kia. That is why I choose to own the best flashlight I can get my hands on. If there was something better I would purchase it. So far I can not find anything better, with the exception of HDS lights.
Also how do I know this? Besides the search button, everything I mentioned about the quality of the Surefire lights is common knowledge around this forum.
Also how do I know this? Besides the search button, everything I mentioned about the quality of the Surefire lights is common knowledge around this forum.
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JWRitchie76
Flashlight Enthusiast
How do you perceive worth? Worth means different things to different people.
Really? So using the search button, you've determined that surefire has better quality optics with better coatings? Do mean on average, or better than anything out there? That's a huge task at least, but more likely an impossible one, *without knowing details*. You're assuming a lot. Do you know that your porsche is actually more reliable/durable/higher quality than the top japanese makers or are you just assuming it? In fact, probably the opposite is actually true, but good luck finding data on that--but point me to it if you have it, since I'm looking for that! In the case of high-end cars you've paid for performance and features more than anything else. But for lights, this isn't the case with SF since they're completely lackluster in those categories, compared to the competition. But, to each his own, since as JWRitchie points out, this can be highly subjective in some ways.
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JWRitchie76
Flashlight Enthusiast
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