Flashlights as a Deterrent against wild animals?

It would not surprise me if one could effectively use a high performance flashlight to effectively ward off an attack from say a predator such as a mountain lion, grizzly or even a black bear that on occasion can be aggressive. When I run my dogs at night when I inadvertently point the beam in their direction it does seem like it makes them disorientated momentarily. I wonder if this would have the same effects of larger animals of Prey?

Any volunteers? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

they definitely don't work on black bears, mountain lions, coyotes, or wolves..

hiking around northern maine and parts of bordering canada, i've run into all four..

black bears tend to be the most shy of the animals from what i've seen.. they don't really seem to be bothered by the light as much as your presence..

mountain lions don't like the bright light, but again, they don't seem to be all that bothered by it, aside from squinting.. i've also found they're the least cautious of the other animals.. if you run into a mountain lion they're more likely to take interest than bears, coyotes, or wolves.. also these are the animals i'm most cautious around.. they've honestly scared the sh*t outta me on two seperate occasions..

coyotes are just *******s.. they seem to associate the bright light with possible danger better than the other animals tho.. and they're most likely to be driven off by it..

wolves i can't comment much on, as i've only run into them a few times in canada.. they're really nice and i've never even felt a need to flash them other than to get a look..

all of them are disoriented briefly tho.. so it could buy you a few seconds in a dangerous encounter..

that's how my experiences have gone.. altho the brightest light i've used to spot these animals is the Legend LX.. which is about a typical 2XCR123 light with the exception of lighting up coyotes on old logging trails with a 1 million candlepower Vector.. i usually use my PT40 on hikes tho, and it's probly not bright enough to be used for self-defense..

so i'd say don't bet on using them as deterrant unless that's all you have at your disposal.. *lol*

-Ryan

I'm not sure if this is relavent, but I had an experience earlier tonight while walking through a pond area.

I had a red/orange LS with 30mm optic and mostly depleted batteries, and when shining it into a tree it caused a bird to start chirping wildly, and hop some branches as if it was trying to get away. I pointed an Inova X-1 at it (which had about the same surface brightness), and it stopped doing this. Then I hit with the R/O again, and it started chirping and hopping away again.

So I wonder if certain animals are unusually sensitive to certain colors. I know insects are supposed to be sensitive to short wavelengths, but I never heard of birds being sensitive to long wavelengths. Maybe bears, lions, etc. are also sensitive to certain wavelengths. I don't know.

This "M6 STORY" from Surefire may or may not be relevant. I think Dan is one of our CPF dealers but I don't recall the business name.

M6 VS A BEAR


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BlindedByTheLite said:
they definitely don't work on black bears, mountain lions, coyotes, or wolves...hiking around northern maine and parts of bordering canada, i've run into all four...

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Ryan,

As an urbanite living where overgrown pigeons are practically big game I'm intrigued by your animal encounters. Care to share any more details?

Brightnorm

While on my evening walk the other night, a large lab-type
dog ran out of a darkened garage at me at full speed. He
came to a screeching halt when I "blasted" him with my
SureFire 9p/Z32 bezel. He just barked and barked and stayed
about four or five feet from me. His owner came to get him
and apologized profusely. He looked like a cartoon character
he stopped so suddenly.

He may have stopped anyway but the light sure stopped him
got his attention!


"Lux" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

our dance company has a building located in a "rough" area so some of the surrounding areas have put up some security measures to deter theives.

Right next to our building is an autobody shop surrounded by a chain link fence about 7 feet tall with a sign saying "Beware of Dogs." At first i didn't see them so i peered into the lot to check out what kind of cars were being worked on. Next thing i notice are two LARGE rottweilers running towards the gate at full speed and barking. They scared the SH#T out of me even though i knew i was protected by the gate. After a few minutes they just started to **** me off because they were constantly barking at me everytime i went to my car. I had passangers with me so i didn't want the dogs to scare them as we past the lot. So i went back to my car and got my LSI Spotlight. This has a 55w bulb, so it's pretty stunning even to people that are warned about the light. I passed in front of the fence which aggrivated them even more - they were even jumping on the fence at this point. I flashed my light on them very quickly and they let out a distinct yelp and immediately stopped barking and ran away from the fence.
The next time i came around they didn't even bother to get up, even if i tapped on the fence. They raised there heads, took one look at me, and did nothing. It was pretty funny.

I wouldn't trust my life to a flashlight when encountered with wild or angry animals though. This was my first experience with a situation like this, so who knows what some other animal would have done. I'm sure there is a point, just like with humans, where the animal would feel overly threatened and would just defend itself at any cost. At that point not even a bullet would stop some wild animals.

I would treat them just like any attacker, human or other. If you had OC spray and stopped an attacker...yer not gonna stick around to see if it works...yer just gonna run. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Cat's pupils expand significantly a split second before they pounce. Given that it may also be true with biggest felines like a mountain lion, is it possible that bright light will prevent their pupils from expanding, which in turn deter their attack?

I won't bet on using lights as deterrent. I tried shining an Arc LSL into the eyes of the cat at close range, it didn't even bothered to move at all. Don't think it is even aware of the presence of the light! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

In my experience Cats, Racoons, and Possums are not deterred by a SF M6 HOLA at all [just curious if anything].

I wonder if nocturnal animals are more immune to bright light than other animals ... intuitively that seems backwards.

The only way I'd use a flashlight against a grizzly, is if it was strapped to the end of a .300 magnum. Even then, I'd be praying! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

First of all, I think that this depends on the temperment of the animal, and the species. I have a very friendly pet Black lab who is extremely lovable. He has never shown aggression to anyone. I have shined my Streamlight TL-2 (approx 100 Lumens) at him to no effect. In fact, I have read that dogs have a protective covering that they can use at night to see better and block out light. Knowing his temperment, he probably was more "intruiged" by the light more than anything, wondering if we were playing a game...a more agressive temperment may have triggered a different response. As for "Wild" animals, like Cougars, Coyotes, Bears, -- trust me, I would not use a light if one was charging me...just ask the Omaha Police Officer who about a month ago had to shoot a Mountain Lion witih 00 Buckshot from his 12 guage in the middle of Omaha--it was charging him---WE've been having a problem with Mountain Lions coming from Colorado and Wyoming...I'd feel more comfortable on walks through the neighborhood with a 65 Lumen minimum output for lighting things(potential human attackers) up and a good can of OC for aggressive dogs.

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brightnorm said:
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BlindedByTheLite said:
they definitely don't work on black bears, mountain lions, coyotes, or wolves...hiking around northern maine and parts of bordering canada, i've run into all four...

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Ryan,

As an urbanite living where overgrown pigeons are practically big game I'm intrigued by your animal encounters. Care to share any more details?

Brightnorm




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sure. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif i'll categorize it by animal.. *lol*

black bear story:
my pops and me were taking a hike at a spot called Fish River Falls..
we had some new nightvision monoculars that we wanted to try out, and we saw a perfect spot on the drive in..
it was a huge rock pile, probly 30 ft tall, we assumed dumped from some random rock quarry (there's alot around here)..
so we climbed to the top, cutting our hands up on the way on those jagged rocks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif and we get to the top and whip out the monoculars..
looking around we saw there were three black bears at the bottom of the rock pile we couldn't see while driving in!
we honestly didn't know what the hell to do, but i didn't feel safe watching the world thru the monocular anymore and neither did he!
i turned on my PT40 and he turned on his 3C Mag and we quickly estimated what the best way to scramble back down to the car would be..
we figured we'd scramble down as quickly as possible and both get in the passenger door, also as quickly as possible..
b4 we made our move we checked on the bears.. maybe we should've used the monocular again, but we went with the flashlights.. the bears looked back at us, pretty lazy-eyed and didn't do anything besides stare for a few seconds..
i'll tell y'what tho.. i was scared as sh*t when we first saw them!
----
mountain lion story:
this was me and my pops again.. it was summer, and we were going to hike around a small ski resort called Quoggy Jo.. there's one main access trail that allows 4X4 vehicles to drive nearly to the top of the resort, but it was blocked off, so we started up this road..
my pops is an avid photographer, so he has a pretty keen eye.. we found tons of animal prints, and found a beehive a black bear had knocked down and made a meal of..
so at this point we knew to be cautious.. 'cause there were still plenty of bees around that hive..
so all this while we're tuned in for signs of a black bear.. i again had my PT40 and he had my Legend LX.. so we were easily able to scan the edges of the road and penetrate about 20 ft into the woods b4 things got too thick..
about 30 minutes into the hike, we heard a snarl.. an ugly one.. we looked around us frantically looking for some sign of another presence.. we didn't see a thing! but we sure heard that ugly snarl.. finally a mountain lion pawed towards us.. from a spot we had actually been aiming our beams at.. it just blended in beautifully.. so now we were pretty much screwed.. there was about 15 ft between us and the lion.. probly not even a challenging jump for it to make..
i think the beams DID bother it tho.. as it behaved like we were much closer to eachother.. kinda sprung back into itself and snarling, like when your housecats fight with eachother with their ears pinned back and whatever.. anyways..
we didn't move a damn inch.. we didn't want this things interest to be peaked anymore whatsoever, obviously..
what happened next couldn't be hoped for in a million other scenarios.. saved by the black bear! the godsent blackbear came lumbering up the trail from where we'd been walking from! the animals then paid no attention to us.. woohoo! the mountain lion fled back into the woods, and the black bear turned off and went the opposite direction also back into the woods..
so here we were in the middle of the road, just us and our beams, and sweating bullets.. we called the hike off *lol*
----
coyote story:
again me and pops venturing into remote parts of the forest.. we'd heard about a huge heard of dear.. 40+ dear were supposedly in it, and he wanted some pictures..
this one actually takes place in winter.. so that adds to the remoteness..
we were going to drive thru an old logging site.. we could make use of their road that went a good 2 miles into the forest..
along the way, there were dear carcasses on the side of the road.. it was disgusting, they were all torn up and in most cases only the head and a couple legs were there.. THIS FREAKED ME OUT! but pops explained to me that the loggers do this to warn eachother of the coyotes or bears presence.. when they find a carcass they drag it to the edge of the main road.. it was pretty grim..
so we get to the main clearing, hop out and start our hike.. same lights.. PT40 and Legend LX.. i wish we'd have taken other lights, 'cause these created an annoying glare on the top layer of snow, which was in fact hardened into ice.. the LX was especially annoying..
after we get about 10 minutes into the hike, we realize there are more coyote tracks than trees!
now i was already scared from seeing the countless carcasses roadside.. now i was almost sh*tt*ng myslf..
of course pops doesn't care and we're back to the hike after studying them for a 10-second-minute..
yes we ended up running into at least a group of 3 coyotes.. i'd always thought they were more solitary, and i was sorta betting on that.. of course no such luck..
anyways, after they noticed us we froze.. but the next move we made sent them running like their tails were on fire..
i guess they're pretty timid with humans.. but again.. the light didn't seem to bother them at all aside from making them squint..
----
wolf story:
this happened in Canada.. close to Quebec City..
it wasn't really a hike originally, just sorta turned into one.. but we were set out to check these popular waterfalls in some ravine.. this started out during the day with about 2 hours of daylight left.. we did have Minimags with us tho.. my pops is notorious for taking longer than planned..
so after dark he decides there are no more pictures to be taken (go figure) and we head back to the main parking area.. we got treated to a small pack of wolves! in fact we came very very close to them.. close enough to tell that two of them were tagged in fact.. and it all sorta happened like we were all humans casually exchanging glances.. they trotted by us and disappeared.. it was pretty cool.. and again, the Minimags didn't really have any effect on their behavior.. i couldn't tell if it made them squint or not 'cause they all seemed to be squinting.. beautiful site tho!

i've got more! well.. no more wolf stories.. but more from the others!
Moral of these stories: Flashlights are not substitutes for rifles. *lol*

-Ryan

Re: Flashlights as a Deterrent against wild animal

wow !
great stories! great thread! thanx !
so ... what to do when walking in the woods without a gun? not walking in the woods at all or hope for the best? I am thinking twice about this now, even my only concern in Germany are boars and maybe very rarely some bears ...
bernhard

Re: Flashlights as a Deterrent against wild animal

I am glad to be in Germany.. I do not need to worry when I go to the woods /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Flashlights as a Deterrent against wild animal

WolfEyes, you might be wrong ... like I said ... what about boars? Don't laugh, they can be ferocious and deadly attackers and are easily angered, especially when with children (I mean pig children). I have been thinking about this some time now and I am not so sure if I'd venture in the woods at night now ...
bernhard

Re: Flashlights as a Deterrent against wild animal

yes sir.. you always hope for the best when walking thru the woods at night without protection! haha

This is the most interesting thread in a long time!

If my only recourse was a flashlight, I'd try my E-2 or G2 into the animal's eyes. Better than nothing, and it might deter him.

Hmmm... A three or four cell Maglight might be useful here...for use as a club.

Great stuff Ryan! Thanks for sharing... Over here, we worry about wild boars, snakes and sometimes (rarely) tigers in the jungles...

I remember reading somewhere that snakes' eyes are very sensitive to light, does anyone know if this is true? I know a few years back, when a small baby snake sneaked into my parents' house, I grabbed my M*g 3D and cornered it by shining the light straight at its eyes. It just sorta froze there, and I was able to get it scooped into a dustpan and let it go outside. But I'm not sure if it was the light that froze it or maybe it was just too timid to move...

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Lux Luthor said:I had a red/orange LS with 30mm optic and mostly depleted batteries, and when shining it into a tree it caused a bird to start chirping wildly, and hop some branches as if it was trying to get away. ...I know insects are supposed to be sensitive to short wavelengths, but I never heard of birds being sensitive to long wavelengths.

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It really seems like the RO fooled the bird into thinking the sun was coming up and he was simply greeting the dawn.

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BlindedByTheLite said:
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brightnorm said:
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BlindedByTheLite said:
they definitely don't work on black bears, mountain lions, coyotes, or wolves...hiking around northern maine and parts of bordering canada, i've run into all four...

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Ryan,

As an urbanite living where overgrown pigeons are practically big game I'm intrigued by your animal encounters. Care to share any more details?

Brightnorm




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sure. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif i'll categorize it by animal.. *lol*...



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Ryan,

Thanks for the great stories, though they were actually a little unsettling in terms of being helpless among wild animals. Sounds like you and "pops" have a great relationship.

Brightnorm