HDS - High CRI vs 200 Lumens?

I really love the idea of great color rendition with the High CRI, but obviously more lumens is always appreciated. Anyone have any input or hands on with the High CRI and/or 200 lumens that would care to weigh in?

Oh, and how low is the low on the HDS? Is it a true "moonlight" mode such that I can check on a sleeping baby and not wake him up?

Whichever tint you select is an arbitrary, personal value judgement. No one can make the choice for you. No one can spend your money. Buy one, buy the other or buy both. You will lose a lot of brightness with HCRI. On the other hand, for some... it's the preferential tint. With either light... Yes, the HDS does serve-up a true moonlight mode.

this may be merged into the hds thread but if i recall 130 high cri to 200 would be one perceptable 'step' in brightness. Im sure someone will clarify but you need a 40% increase in lumens to be perceptably brighter. So as you go higher lumens you need a whole lotta lumens to look brighter. Someone posted a table, i think i may have too, maybe in the hds thread that puts it into perspective, but as im on my phone ill turn the effort back to you

Well I have been wondering the exact same thing and I imagine for the exact same reason!

RobME-Obviously it is a personal choice but I can't see how you reply is really helpful regarding the relative output of the 2 lights in question?

I too wonder how much trade off there is in the 200 vs 120 HiCri?
Is the Cri even less output than a standard 120 or is it the same but just with different tint?

I too would like to hear from anyone who has tried both.

I have a 200 and a 120,both standard I guess and they don't seem that far apart in brightness really to me. The color and tint are far apart and the 120 seems to throw better where the 200 is more floody.

I know after seeing the goingear video review showing these differences exactly I was still a little skeptical but it turns out they were exactly what I have seen with the ones that I have.

The Low modes are very low too,lower than I can imagine using at the lowest maybe.

Moonlight on HDS is 0.07 lumens which is very dim but provides more than sufficient illumination for dark adapted eyes.

The high CRI HDS models top out at 120 lumens while the cool white models are 200 lumens. That might sound like a big difference, but keep in mind that you need roughly four-times the output for a perceived doubling in brightness -- that is 100 lumens will appear to your eyes to be twice as bright as 25 lumens, assuming all other things are equal -- so a jump from 120 to 200 will only appear roughly 40% brighter. The difference is noticeable but not substantial.

Personally, I think the trade-off of lumens is more than worth it for superior color rendering. A 200 lumen cool white emitter might be technically brighter, but I can see better with a high CRI source. Things don't appear as "flat". And there are other benefits: I was cooking hamburgers in the dark the other night, and my high CRI Rotary allowed me to easily see if there was any pink remaining in the meat. When my son came over with a cool white light, the burgers looked uniformly grey.

I have both a 120 HCRI and 200 Rotary on order. The HCRI for color rendition and warmth when needed, the 200 for efficiency and longer runtime.

AVService said:

I too wonder how much trade off there is in the 200 vs 120 HiCri?
Is the Cri even less output than a standard 120 or is it the same but just with different tint?

[...]

I have a 200 and a 120,both standard I guess and they don't seem that far apart in brightness really to me. The color and tint are far apart and the 120 seems to throw better where the 200 is more floody.

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HDS calibrates all their lights after assembly to assure they output the specified lumens, so the high CRI models output a guaranteed 120 lumens.

As for the differences in beam, this is probably on account that the reflector was redesigned after the initial run of the Acme threaded HDS lights. The early models had a fairly floody beam with a large hotspot, but there were noticeable rings which a lot of people complained about. For later runs, Henry redesigned the reflectors by widening the hole at the bottom of the reflector which eliminated the artifacts but also made the hotspot slightly more focused.

AVService said:

I have a 200 and a 120,both standard I guess and they don't seem that far apart in brightness really to me. The color and tint are far apart and the 120 seems to throw better where the 200 is more floody.

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I suspect this is because the standard 120 uses the Golden Dragon and the 200 an XP-G. The HCRI 120 uses an XP-G.

thaugen said:

I suspect this is because the standard 120 uses the Golden Dragon and the 200 an XP-G. The HCRI 120 uses an XP-G.

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Interesting Tom as of course I am using the 120 I got from you for this observation!

It seems more useful in some situations than the brand new 200 I got the next day.
On the other hand the 200 is certainly more powerful in a sort of obvious way.

According to Henry the higher output also implies better efficiency when using a lower portion of it.
It made sense when he explained it to me but I couldn't repeat it right now either?

I guess I just need a 120 HiCri too is the real solution! Those Orange ones look nice.

Ed

AVService said:

I guess I just need a 120 HiCri too is the real solution! Those Orange ones look nice.

Ed

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Lucky you, the orange cerakoted ones are in stock at GoingGear. Or they were recently. I have a high CRI custom HDS on order, and will probably pair it with a Jetbeam RRT-01 for daily carry. When I'm back in the US and pair this with the Peak Vesuvius on my keychain... Well, I'll win most up-close lumen wars.

AnAppleSnail said:

Lucky you, the orange cerakoted ones are in stock at GoingGear.

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That is certainly what I am thinking!
I got an OD 200 from BatteryStation last week thinking it might be the only chance I would have to get an HDS until they are shipping again and then the next day they somehow show up on Goingear?

Is that Luck or Fate?

AVService said:

Well I have been wondering the exact same thing and I imagine for the exact same reason!

RobME-Obviously it is a personal choice but I can't see how you reply is really helpful regarding the relative output of the 2 lights in question?

I too wonder how much trade off there is in the 200 vs 120 HiCri?
Is the Cri even less output than a standard 120 or is it the same but just with different tint?

I too would like to hear from anyone who has tried both...

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Well, I got one out of two huh? (Lol), At least I addressed the question of moonlight mode. Sorry the rest of what I posted wasn't helpful to you. Here's some food for thought... Seriously now... I know why I buy a light, (I have a use in mind and my own personal reasons and preferences for selecting a particular light)... But, I don't know why YOU buy a light. So the question comes-up, "What's better an HDS this or an HDS that?". Well, they're different in a few ways; Most specifically in color rendition and and output level. So choose, one or the other, as the determinant of which light to buy. You can't have both in this particular scenario. It's HCRI or it's more lumens. What's more important to YOU? (I can't answer for you) And that's why I posted only what I did. Yes, I'm aware that the actual question of which is better wasn't actually asked, more of a 'post your thoughts between the two' opinion was queried, but it amounts to the same.

Personally, I don't see it as a choice of one vs. the other... If my own intention is for a high CRI light, I'm going for high CRI... lumens be damned. If I need or want a brighter light and color accuracy isn't a factor, then max lumens it is. Why is the relative output of these two lights even important? It shouldn't matter, but the question was asked, and it's a fair enough question (I guess). In all seriousness, I'm trying to be more helpful.



The above two cerakoted HDS lights are from the last generation. My first was the white 100lm high CRI, quickly followed-up by the orange 170T. We can safely say that there isn't a very perceptible difference in brightness between these two models and their current 120lm HCRI and 200lm 'brothers'. Also that the relative brightness level differences between these two and the newer ones are similar.

My own personal preference is for HCRI followed by NW & lastly CW. They all have their place. I don't have the means to truly measure what I see when I compare these, but I'd opine that the 170 is perceptibly and notably brighter than the warmer HCRI light. Is the HCRI light bright enough? I don't know. For me, yes it is. If I had to sell one, it would be the 170. But I'd have to think twice. These are personal choices and there are plenty of folks here whose preference (and needs) are the opposite of mine. (and I never like to make it about me)... I think it's worth owning both, but then again (given mine is an older model and I haven't seen the newer ones), the tint itself is on the warm side and I've a strong preference for the more neutral tints offered by the Nichia 119 & 219 emitters that I've seen. I think HCRI, is what I would buy if part of my own needs for a light were to be checking on a baby at night.

Thanks for the heads up on the orange HDS executive HCRI lights at Going Gear. Just ordered one to go with my OD 200 tactical, my older 120 tactical, and my much older twisty. Now if the rotary 200 comes in I will be set!

T

Thanks all! Some great information and I really appreciate it. After a week or so of deliberation I'm going with the EDzc High CRI.

Rob
Thanks for elaborating and the detail provided.
I too am only trying to understand the possible relationship between Lumen output and Tint and how they may interact to make one light appear different in intensity given equal output ratings.
As the ratings are also not the same and the warmer tints seem to make intensity lower anyway I just have to wonder what the tangible difference really will be.

So I was only 1/2 Tongue in Cheek with my idea of having to get both as I see you have already done too!

Thanks

Ed

AVService said:

Rob
Thanks for elaborating and the detail provided.... I just have to wonder what the tangible difference really will be.

So I was only 1/2 Tongue in Cheek with my idea of having to get both as I see you have already done too!
Thanks Ed

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Ed, I might be misunderstanding a bit, but given equal output ratings, I'd guess they should be equal in intensity but perhaps not visually perceived that way. I might be expressing this the wrong way, but when it comes to the choice of which tint, I see these flashlights as tools (duh! don't we all?). True, a light's a light. They serve a general purpose. When you just need to light things up, any light will do.

High CRI is easier on the eyes. While any sufficiently bright enough light can do damage... at lower output levels, reading is a far more pleasant experience using a HCRI light. Need to see what your food really looks like while your cooking it outdoors on a BBQ? ...or even indoors in an oven? HCRI. They say colors 'pop' more. It's true. Details come out... everything looks more dimensional. Actually, colder lights wash-out and flatten details. HCRI lights enable you to appreciate 'nature', when there's not enough real sunlight. For dental applications, if you ever have any reason to examine teeth or gums... you need a HCRI. Need to see your skin or view a flesh wound? Or to view a pet (dog, cat or other) and natural light isn't sufficient? Catch my drift? - You probably know all of this anyway - but if you just need to light things-up and color accuracy isn't a factor, any light will do. Personally, I'm liking the NW's as backup to my hcri's.

Later, -Rob

RobME said:

No one can spend your money.

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No one except the love of your life

I briefly had a 200 before the mix up was cleared and it got traded in for the HCRI model.
The 200 was brighter but the hcri is plenty bright, and the light quality is great, for me at least.
The light starts seeming pretty dim to me looking at tree tops about 100 feet away; the 200 wasn't that much better, though definitely "whiter".
I wouldn't trade the hcri model for a 200, not a chance.
If I want more light then I'm probably going to want a Lot more light or else a light with a lot more focused throw.

The light has a great general purpose beam with a nice, big, smooth edged hot spot, roughly one foot across at five feet distance. I recall the 200 having the same beam characteristics.
As for the low of either one, I wouldn't point it straight at a sleeping person's face as the reflector concentrates the light real well at arm's length, it would certainly wake me up. Though the dimmer spill light of an HDS would probably be fine for checking a baby.

- and if I was checking a baby, more than just checking that it was there then I'd much rather do so with an HCRI light.

Finally, even though warmer hcri lights "aren't as bright" they are putting the same photons out, they're just putting out more in frequencies that our eyes are not as sensitive to as the blue and green light that the cool whites are richer in... But to me that also works out to less glare, less pupil contraction, seeing more and keeping the light at an even lower level than I would with cool white, and seeing better when I turn the light back off as a big bonus.
It's also pretty subjective, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some people are more sensitive to lower or higher frequencies of the visible spectrum.

eh4 said:

...As for the low of either one, I wouldn't point it straight at a sleeping person's face as the reflector concentrates the light real well at arm's length, it would certainly wake me up. Though the dimmer spill light of an HDS would probably be fine for checking a baby.

- and if I was checking a baby, more than just checking that it was there then I'd much rather do so with an HCRI light....

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These are good points! It might be worth mentioning for anyone interested... that Surefire's F04 Diffuser works very well attached to the bezel of this light. It eliminates the hotspot, and greatly diminishes the beam intensity coming off the reflector. Essentially becomes a flood, and with the diffuser in place, even an infants sensitive eye's would be safe from direct exposure not too far away if the light were in it's lowest 'moonlight' output setting.

AVService said:

I too am only trying to understand the possible relationship between Lumen output and Tint and how they may interact to make one light appear different in intensity given equal output ratings.

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The primary difference is how colors are rendered. With warmer and especially high CRI tints, colors appear more natural which helps with depth perception and object recognition. Case in point, a brown rabbit in a green bush will be harder to pick out with cool white because the entire scene will have a grayish hue while a high CRI light will allow you to easily distinguish between the rabbit's brown fur and the green leaves.

Now as for why cool white might appear brighter given the same intensity, it's because your eyes are generally more sensitive to the blue end of the color spectrum than they are to the red end.