Fenix new two-button UI seen across the product line--your thoughts

I've noticed that Fenix has decided to adopt their two-button UI across the product line, from the LD22 to the PD22 to the TK35. This UI consists of a tactical forward clicky switch in the back of the light and a mode button either on the front or on the back, depending on the model. The mode button cycles through the brightness levels, and the last selected brightness level is remembered for the next time you turn it on. On models where these modes are available, holding the mode button for one second switches it to strobe mode, while holding it for three seconds switches it to SOS mode.

I'm seeing this UI being implemented with a remarkable level of consistency across Fenix's new lights. The TK35, for example, has both buttons in the back, but the mode switch works in essentially the same way as in the LD22, PD32, or TK15.

What are your thoughts on this new UI? Do you think it's a good idea to have the same UI across the product line?

--DragonLord

I like the UI I have plenty of Fenix lights- and like them all. Do think that switching modes on there TK-line should be different. TK-line mode switching should be, IMO, more like Klarus does with there XT-line.
But the switches on the TK41 and TK70- TK75 all great also. Tactical-lights should have operation on the tail.

The E25 uses a single forward button not dual. I have avoided the dual button because IMO it should be forward or rear not both. If done well and there is a decent lockout I dont mind the forward at all. In the E25 a 1/8 twist of the head disables light, and those forward clicky / pocket carry sized lights without good lockout ability will end up dead one day IMO.

Verndog said:

The E25 uses a single forward button not dual. I have avoided the dual button because IMO it should be forward or rear not both. If done well and there is a decent lockout I dont mind the forward at all. In the E25 a 1/8 twist of the head disables light, and those forward clicky / pocket carry sized lights without good lockout ability will end up dead one day IMO.

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I missed that, thanks.

--DragonLord

I've always been interested in Fenix lights, but never bought one being a big sub-lumen fan. These new electronic side switches and momentary tailcaps make it even more unlikely for me, based on my personal UI preference.

Seems like you'll need to switch grips, or use two hands to operate it, and for me, electronic side switches add complexity, introduce additional points of failure, and are less user-serviceable/field repairable. I'm sure I'm a real minority when I say I don't like momentary clickies either, but I find it kills my night vision and has me seeing spots.

I don't buy lights with side switches on them.

With side mode switch toward front and tail on/off clicky, that means I will have to use 2 hands or change grip when turning light on/off vs. switching mode.

Nothing against Fenix but I am generally not for the idea. I use Jetbeam lights with magnetic control ring because it will at least allow me to turn the light off with the ring without changing grip. Have a SWM but abandoned using it for the same reason. Unfortunately, when I use my light at work, it requires me to turn on/off the light and adjust brightness quite frequently. I don't always have 2 hands available and keep changing grip increases the chance of dropping the light, aside from inconvenience.

I prefer the older UI like LD10 etc.
There was a thread recently about this:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...h-in-the-Head-quot-User-Interface-Good-or-Bad

I think the newer UI is fantastic. I wish they support lower lows but other than that they have a great product going.

aau007 said:

With side mode switch toward front and tail on/off clicky, that means I will have to use 2 hands or change grip when turning light on/off vs. switching mode.

Click to expand...

I would think that this is only an issue for white wall hunters. How often do you really need to turn the light on and off AND change levels at the same time? If I am really using a light I click it on and then use it and only change levels if I need to. If I am messing around and playing with a bunch of lights that is the only time that I actually turn a light off and on while changing levels repeatedly.

I've become more of a fan of lights with a tailcap on/off clicky and then any sort of level adjustment up at the head. That just works with the way I hold and use a light. I've become fond of push button level adjustment (Fenix), head turning (EagleTac) and infinite adjustment (Sunwayman) formats.

I think this is a good idea. It allows for tactical momentary-on use unlike the older LD20 (which I have) and makes it easier to change modes. My primary concern with this design is the reliability of the mode button. Has anyone had any issues with the mode button (such as requiring more pressure than normal), or has it mostly been problem-free?

I'm pretty sure Fenix has tested the button to work reliably in the long run, but does anyone's experience indicate otherwise?

--DragonLord

Yes I would be happy,twisty switch not my idea of fun.

For me, for the way I use a light, the only acceptable UIs are those in which the on/off control is separate from the brightness control. There's a few exceptions to this rule, but I demand that type of UI in 90% of my lights, click-click-click-click doesn't work for me.

So, in theory, the new Fenix UI is something I like. However, although I haven't tried their forward-mounted side switch yet, I do worry about exactly the same thing as is being discussed above -- having to change grips to switch modes. If that's the case, it would rule it out. Back-mounted side switch sounds great, though, and I'd think it could make for a shorter light than a front-mounted side switch.

Now, on to your big question: "Do you think it's a good idea to have the same UI across the product line?". As a designer myself, I always try to remind myself of a famous quote: "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds". I think a huge number of lights will have the same basic role -- basic EDC and utility use -- and it might make sense to give most of those lights the same UI. But if there's a more specialty light, you should always consider a specialty UI that matches the usage better, rather than consistency-for-consistency's-sake with the rest of the line. If you have a dedicated tactical light, for example, you might consider making the light's turn-on mode always be turbo rather than memory (that might not be the right answer -- I'm just saying that specialty lights merit consideration of specialty UIs)

Joe Talmadge said:

Now, on to your big question: "Do you think it's a good idea to have the same UI across the product line?". As a designer myself, I always try to remind myself of a famous quote: "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds". I think a huge number of lights will have the same basic role -- basic EDC and utility use -- and it might make sense to give most of those lights the same UI. But if there's a more specialty light, you should always consider a specialty UI that matches the usage better, rather than consistency-for-consistency's-sake with the rest of the line. If you have a dedicated tactical light, for example, you might consider making the light's turn-on mode always be turbo rather than memory (that might not be the right answer -- I'm just saying that specialty lights merit consideration of specialty UIs)

Click to expand...

Note that the flagship TK75 uses the same setup, only that the power button is at the front, adjacent to the mode button, and does not allow momentary-on.

--DragonLord

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:

I would think that this is only an issue for white wall hunters. How often do you really need to turn the light on and off AND change levels at the same time? If I am really using a light I click it on and then use it and only change levels if I need to. If I am messing around and playing with a bunch of lights that is the only time that I actually turn a light off and on while changing levels repeatedly.

I've become more of a fan of lights with a tailcap on/off clicky and then any sort of level adjustment up at the head. That just works with the way I hold and use a light. I've become fond of push button level adjustment (Fenix), head turning (EagleTac) and infinite adjustment (Sunwayman) formats.

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm in minority liking the old UI better but I disagree about it only being an issue for white wall hunters.

I often use my light for short moments:
Look for something close to my feet for 30 sec - I want it to come on in low
A little later I want to lighten up something 20 m away for 5 sec - I want it to come on in max then.
Next time maybe I want it for close up reading - low again.
And what level did I use it on last time?


With the new UI I almost spend more time adjusting light level than actually using the light.
With the old UI I know it's max with bezel tight and low with bezel loose.
If I want medium it's just a softclick away.
Of course the old UI doesn't have forward clicky with momentary so that's a loss if that's important.

I guess we have very different use of our flashlights and in other applications the mode memory is just the right thing

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:

I would think that this is only an issue for white wall hunters. How often do you really need to turn the light on and off AND change levels at the same time?

Click to expand...

I guess that's why we have so many choices of light designs. No one design will fit eveyone's needs. I don't turn on/off AND change levels at the same time but I do quite often have to turn on/off or adjust level often during some of my work (not white wall hunting).

When I do site surveys, I rarely have to leave light on for long periods of time but I do have to turn them off whenever I am not using it to look so when I swing it around, the light won't flash onto someone working. Then I have to adjust the brightness often when light is on so I can maintain lux level on objects between near and far.

I can't speak for everyone but at least for myself, I have a certain need that requires me to turn on/off light and adjustment brightness (not at the same time) often, I would definitely avoid lights with the 2 functions far in distant apart. Idea is one switch controls all or 2 switches nearby to control all without changing grip. Anytime you have to change grip, you risk dropping the light.

BTW, I recently discovered that I don't like mode memory. I have too many things to memorize and don't need another one. I want to be able to perform some actions and just get to the brightness I need.

DragonLord said:

My primary concern with this design is the reliability of the mode button. Has anyone had any issues with the mode button (such as requiring more pressure than normal), or has it mostly been problem-free?
--DragonLord

Click to expand...

The PD32 was the first one coming in the market with such UI and these Fenix side mode button lights have been released for around one years or more, it seems that no one has came across any reliability issues with them by far.

Verndog said:

The E25 uses a single forward button not dual. I have avoided the dual button because IMO it should be forward or rear not both. If done well and there is a decent lockout I dont mind the forward at all. In the E25 a 1/8 twist of the head disables light, and those forward clicky / pocket carry sized lights without good lockout ability will end up dead one day IMO.

Click to expand...

IIRC, the E25 uses an electronic switch and not a forward clicky.


I used to like the UI of their oilder models though many still do have that kind of UI. Them changing and making all their lights have the same UI maybe a great way to separate them or nake a distinction of their lights. Like zebralight, all of its models uses the same Ui. So i guess fenix is trying to make that UI a part of fenix.

If one doesn't like their new UI, i guess the only thing to do is buy other lights that has the sane UI as theirs.

I like the two button UI on there larger lights, where there side by side

CarpentryHero said:

I like the two button UI on there larger lights, where there side by side

Click to expand...

Yeah the side by side button UI on the TK 70 and TK75 works well for me too.

I like that you can operate on/off button and mode function in both an underhand and overhand grip on the TK70/75 etc..