Why does sunway man keep making there V series lights dimmer on primaries?....

ScaryFatKidGT

Enlightened
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
918
Seriously is 300 ANSI lumens from an XP-G2 at 3v to much to ask for? The XM-L ones will do 500lm but only 190 on a CR123... from an XM-L really? and the new M11R sirus only does 300 on a RCR and only 160 on a primary... whats the point of the U3?

I still have my V10R Ti and haven't found anything worth upgrading to, I like the brighter and farther throwing RRT-0 but it slips out of my hands and is longer and doesn't have as good of clip.
 
Last edited:

Badbeams3

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 28, 2000
Messages
4,389
Guess their going for lower heat and longer run time over absolute performance?
 

Pöbel

Enlightened
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Messages
372
Location
Germany
You can either build a dragster light which is unpractical on the higher levels and might even jeopardize battery safety, or you can build a light which can be safely operated on each level and is suitable for users with no knowledge about flashlights.

I like the route sunwayman has taken with these lights.
 

moldyoldy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
1,410
Location
Maybe Wisconsin, maybe near Nürnberg
You can either build a dragster light which is unpractical on the higher levels and might even jeopardize battery safety, or you can build a light which can be safely operated on each level and is suitable for users with no knowledge about flashlights.

I like the route sunwayman has taken with these lights.

Ich stimme zu! The lumens produced are limited not only by the LED design (such as forward voltage), but especially by the cell technology. The CR123a Lithium Manganese Dioxide cell has a maximum pulse discharge limit of 3A and a continuous discharge current limit of 1A.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/botach/nabccr123.pdf

Higher lumens = higher current. lower voltage = higher current. At some point in any attempt to increase lumen output, the current design limit of that cell is reached. A safe design will leave some room for production variations of circuitry and LEDs. Many of the CR123 battery "rapid disassembly" events were with primary CR123a cells!

From a design standpoint: After the forward voltage is subtracted from the CR123a voltage output of 3V, and considering the increasing internal resistance of the cell at currents above the constant rating of 1A, if the driver circuitry attempts to pull more amps to output more lumens, the current quickly exceeds the 3A limit of the design specification of the CR123a cell. Most of the single cell lights being sold today draw well above 2.5A at max output, be they Zebralight AA SC51, or a CR123-based light. The safety margin is becoming rather thin! Worse still, marginal increases in lumens usually result in sharp increases in current with commensurate decreases in run time.

For example: Some current measurements using the 10A range of a DMM (which itself has some resistance) and a Sunwayman V11r:

<note that max lumens means only that the dial has been rotated to the max position. The lumens are NOT the same between the following measurements>

AW Li-Ion 14500 at max lumens = about 1.08A
AW IMR 14500 at max lumens = about 1.35A .
Titanium CR123a at max lumens.= 2.32A

Also, I am able to visually detect a lumen difference in the V11r between 14500 chemistries Li-Ion vs IMR: the IMR has a higher output because of lower cell impedance. Rhetorical question: Is the slight increase in output worth the decrease in runtime?

So the bottom line is that light designers are have to limit the lumens because of the design specs of the battery technology. or change the LED.

The Cree XM-L in various incremental increases in lumen output will not provide the major jump in lumens as found between the XP-G and XM-L. Battery technology changes much more slowly than LED technology. and the matter of heat generated in a single-cell light has been ignored so far. another limiting factor.

IOW, either switch to a multi-cell light, or wait for the next truly new LED design.
 
Last edited:

ScaryFatKidGT

Enlightened
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
918
Yeah well a BC10 and RRT-0 will do 250-270lm from a XP-G on a 123, so I think an XM-L would do more just fine, the M11R does 230 so why does the V11R and V10R Ti+ only do 190? Just kinda bugs me

If I wanted a rocket id get the D25C
 

TEEJ

Flashaholic
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
7,490
Location
NJ
The primaries are almost always dimmer than rechargeables, on almost all lights...because the primaries can't handle the higher flows/have lower voltage.

:D
 

LowFlux

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
210
Buy a charger and some RCRs - you will instantly have a brighter flashlight from Sunwayman for less then the cost of a new flashlight!
 

ScaryFatKidGT

Enlightened
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
918
The primaries are almost always dimmer than rechargeables, on almost all lights...because the primaries can't handle the higher flows/have lower voltage.

:D
Lol guys I know, what I am saying is while every other companies went XM-L and sacrificed throw for 50 more lumens (on 123's), Sunwayman went from 210/230lm to 190 and just expect people to use RCR's, I have RCR's there great but 123's phisically hold more power and for camping and stuff I like burning threw 123's.

Buy a charger and some RCRs - you will instantly have a brighter flashlight from Sunwayman for less then the cost of a new flashlight!
Actually my V10R XP-G doesn't change hardly at all on an RCR compared to my BC10 and RRT-0 XP-G's which are both noticeable brighter on RCR's.
 
Top