Wuben        
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Z3 vs C3

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* Stingray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,199

    Default Z3 vs C3

    I have an M2-HA bezel that I want to put on a Z3 body, but I can't find any Z3's in HA. Are there any, or do I have to settle for a C3. I don't really want the clip and I like the adjustability of the Z3, although I've never handled one. Is the adjustability a significant feature?

    Also, is there any disadvantage of using the M2 bexel instead of the M3 bezel, other than the 25 lumens.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* GeoffChan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    908

    Default Re: Z3 vs C3

    G'day Stingray,

    I haven't seen a Z3 in HA, but you can buy the M2 Bezel in Black from Surefire. I've was playing with the M2 bezel and i found the light a lot clearer when compared to my old 6Z bezel.

    I know for sure that the M3 bezel is to large for the z3.

    I hope that helps.

    Geoff

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* yclo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,258

    Default Re: Z3 vs C3

    The M2 bezel and M3 bezel have different threads and cannot be used interchangably.

    Both are Shock-Isolated, the M2 uses Lamp assemblies that include a refector. I.e. P60/61, P90/91. The M3 uses Lamp assemblies that only consist of a bulb. I.e. MN10, MN11.

    The only way to get a HA Z3 is to get a M3.

    Hope that clears things up a bit.

    -YC

    [Edit] - Geoff beat me to it!

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* Stingray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,199

    Default Re: Z3 vs C3

    I thought the M3 and the C3 had essentially the same bodies with fixed grip rings and a flat side body, while the Z3 had a round body and adjustable grip rings.

  5. #5
    Flashaholic* jtivat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Grand Rapids
    Posts
    2,375

    Default Re: Z3 vs C3

    Originally posted by Stingray:
    I thought the M3 and the C3 had essentially the same bodies with fixed grip rings and a flat side body, while the Z3 had a round body and adjustable grip rings.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope the millennium series are different the M6, M4 and M3 have the same thread. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  6. #6
    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Kettering, England
    Posts
    18,415

    Default Re: Z3 vs C3

    There are no Z Series models in HA as far as I know. However, there is an M2 bezel in black which matches the black of the Z Series.

    The M3 has a different [wider diameter] reflector compared to the 'standard' SureFire Bezel models. Therefore the light output is difference.

    Personally, I find the M3's MN10 & MN11 beat the P90 & P91 lamps easily. Both in terms of beam throw and white intensity. Although I don't like the beam shape of the MN10 for the M3, the MN11 produces fantastic light.

    As has been mentioned, the M3 body is different from standard SureFires such as the Z3 sharing only the adjustable CombatGrip with the Z Series.

    I would go for the M3 over the current three-SF123A standard body models. For me, the M3 can easily justify it's size however the non-TurboHead three-SF123A models tend to be a bit too long for their output.

    Al

  7. #7

    Default Re: Z3 vs C3

    i noticed the runtime of the M3 LOLA and HOLA are the same as the P90 and P91 lamp assemblies, but the M3 produces 25 lumens more for both the LOLA and HOLA, which means its lamp assemblies are more efficient....why doesn't surefire use the same bulbs for the P90 and P91 lamps?

  8. #8
    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Kettering, England
    Posts
    18,415

    Default Re: Z3 vs C3

    The Standard SureFires are a whole different kettle of chips compared to the Millennium Series. My view is that SureFire should concentrate on new products rather then reworking Lamp Assemblies which are used and proven reliable for years.

    Anyway, the bulbs may not 'fit' in the smaller diameter reflector of the standard Bezel.

    Al

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* Stingray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,199

    Default Re: Z3 vs C3

    The thing is. I already have an M2 Bezel, and it's on a silver 9P. The silver 9P looks much nicer with its original bezel, the HA looks bad on the siver body. This is a nightstand "bump in the night" light, so I actually like the 3 cell size better than the 2 cell size, it's easier to find and grab in a hurry at night. I'd love an HA 9P, or a silver M2 bezel. I like the idea of shock resistance in my defensive light. I have bigger than average hands, so I wanted an adjustable combat grip, assuming I go with a combat grip light for the M2 bezel. So, you're saying that the M3 has an adjustable grip like the Z3, I didn't realize the the M series were adjustable, I thought only the Z series were.

    Maybe I should just trade my 9P, M2 bezel, and mucho batteries for an M6. How would the M6 do as a nightstand "bump in the night" light?

    In fact, what is everyones recommendation for the best "nightstand - bump in the night light". 10X? M6? M3? ....Maybe just my silver 9P and a nitrolon weapons light on the HK USP.

    Over time, the silver 9P has really grown on me, it has more of a classy, fit in anywhere, unthreatening decor type look to it, as opposed to the hard core all business, don't mess with me type look of the HA M3.

    I tend to think that the P91 lamp would have much more temporary disorienting effect than the P61 lamp. Is that everyone else's take on that, or am I wrong?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Z3 vs C3

    stingray:

    i think as a home defence light, the P61 or P90 might be good enough...reason being i believe a torchlight's ability to disorient someone visually depends on the ambient light. a P60 in broad daylight might not have much of an effect on someone, as opposed to an M6 with HOLA. at night however, in a pitch black place you might find that a P60 might be sufficient for you to find your way around and identify any threats, and disorient someone visually if need be. an M6 with HOLA might blind your target, and the backsplash of light might blind yourself, which would negate the advantage the M6 would have given you had it not blinded you.

    in my opinion your current setup is good enough, though it might look wierd. if i were you i'd just get a Z3 and a black M2 bezel, and you'd have something that looks and functions pretty similarly to an M3, at a much lower cost [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Al:

    i'm not sure if the bulb would fit in the old reflectors, but perhaps someone here could take some measurements? nonetheless i think making a small adjustment to the manufacturing process to change the type of bulb used shouldn't be too hard...as for reliability issues if the more efficient bulbs are reliable enough for surefire's millenium series lights, i think they should be reliable enough. that's if the bulbs do actually fit in the old reflectors though [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  11. #11

    Default Re: Z3 vs C3

    I agree the p60 is sufficient for "BITN" duty. I have my 6z bedside at all times, unless it is on my person.

    The p60's reflected beam on a white wall is painful to my eyes at night. I think an M6 would be overkill. I plan on leaving the 6z (without a LOTC) as my nightstand light indefinately.

    I also do not put much faith in the flashlight's beam as a weapon. I've stared into p60's, p90's, and Stingers for over a minute. No involutary head-turning or begging for mercy. Just spots. I'm guessing the light would have to be double the p90 to make more of an impact, but the major effect of the flashlight is that *you* can see, not so much that the other guy can't.

    Maybe rather than an M6, you should snag another 3-cell light and dedicate it to the HOLA? BTW, I find the 6z is comfortable with no spacer rings on it, and I have rather sizeable hands. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] So the unajustability of the C3 doesn't strike me as a weakness.

  12. #12
    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Kettering, England
    Posts
    18,415

    Default Re: Z3 vs C3

    The M3 does have an adjustable CombatGrip like the Z Series and G2Z.

    I think you'll find that any work on bulbs and reflectors costs far more then you expect.

    On my bedsidetable I have either a 12PM with 3" TurboHead running the MN61 Lamp Assembly. The Large diameter TurboHead keeps it more stable.
    Or an M6, 10X or 9NT, or an M4 with MN61.
    It depends what I've been using that day.

    Al

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •