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Thread: Fire Foxes IV FF4

  1. #1
    Unenlightened
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    Default Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Today I contacted Fire-Foxes about where to purchase an FF3 and how much are they....

    They will upgrade FF3 to FF4 in April. And FF3 is not stock now. FF4 will include 3 hand-switch mode(24W、40W and 60W). The size and price will be the same with FF3.

    If this is already known then I am sorry for wasting a thread. Also I saw the GB price for the FF3.... will there be one for these

    UPDATE**
    They hope to keep the price at $290 or less shipped WW. This is not a GB price they can't tell me more because production is not in full swing yet and they don't know what the cost will be. They also said maybe they can find a reseller in the US.... If any one has interest in being a reseller i'll connect you to the person who I have been talking too.

    I am sorry guys but I do not feel comfortable running a GB .... but i will keep names updated in the OP until one is officially created and the names can be transferred. I will help out in any way and continue to communicate with the person from Fire-Foxes.

    If you want to be added just say I'm in

    GB LIST
    mhemling33
    Lumens Industry
    arglergle
    jmpaul320
    walterr839
    Bullet Bob
    Hoop
    stollman
    wingsnole
    karstghost
    Teej
    bxstylez

    Last edited by mhemling33; 03-17-2013 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Sorry Norm.. I didn't think before i posted that

  2. #2

    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Lets keep this thread updated so I can know when and where to order one!

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* mvyrmnd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Manual power selection sounds awesome

  4. #4
    BVH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    I would guess there will still be a thermal sensor for auto power reduction as there is on FF3.
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  5. #5
    Flashaholic* hron61's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    I would guess there will still be a thermal sensor for auto power reduction as there is on FF3.

    Indeed.
    If they get toasty warm with 40w, guess how hot it will be with 60w?

    I wonder if it will come with a free oven mitt?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    So I asked what the price will be and where i can purchase them from and i was asked how many sets i wanted

    I only need one but I was wondering what group buy price he would give. What would be a good amount to say for a GB of these just to see what he can offer.

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* KuanR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    I would be interested in one, I hesitated to buy the ff3 because it was only single mode.
    I'm Ryan.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Subscribed. I've always wanted an FF3 until they were recently sold out. Now with FF4 with the same form factor and size, but with multiple outputs??? Sounds like a no brainer. I just hope the output and tint will be similar to the FF3. If it is, then we have a definite winner.
    Who needs to see the light at the end of the tunnel when you have friends on CPF?
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Subscribed too.

    Random thoughts...

    24w selection is very good. At the 24w level I tested the FF3 at 90k+ cp and about 2000L. That's waaaaaaaaaaay more than enough for most tasks and it'll be nice to be able to select that level manually.

    The 60w level, though neat and welcomed, should be very short lived before thermal kickdown if the 40w FF3 is of any indication.

    What the FF3 needed more than more power is more reflector. It makes plenty of lumens (easily more than 4000 OTF by my measurements), it just spreads them out a lot. I hope the FF4 will have a little better throwing reflector though it sounds like it will be about the same size.

    A side clicky would be awesome!

    A tinsy bit more length in the battery tray would be nice.
    SPY 007 XM-L2, BVH 150w Vec192 HID, Gen III Maxabeam, Barn Burner, FireFoxes III & IV, Mac's Customs 3840L & Damascus/Cu/Al Tri-EDCs, ma_sha1 FrankenMag, Drake, MF Scorpion 4x XM-L2, Tri-219 EYE10, XP-G2 X10

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Sanders View Post
    Subscribed too.

    Random thoughts...

    24w selection is very good. At the 24w level I tested the FF3 at 90k+ cp and about 2000L. That's waaaaaaaaaaay more than enough for most tasks and it'll be nice to be able to select that level manually.

    The 60w level, though neat and welcomed, should be very short lived before thermal kickdown if the 40w FF3 is of any indication.

    What the FF3 needed more than more power is more reflector. It makes plenty of lumens (easily more than 4000 OTF by my measurements), it just spreads them out a lot. I hope the FF4 will have a little better throwing reflector though it sounds like it will be about the same size.

    A side clicky would be awesome!

    A tinsy bit more length in the battery tray would be nice.
    I agree with CS to all those mods. They would be most welcome. If he goes with a SMO reflector, that will go a long ways towards improving throw without having to increase the diameter. Maybe Lips will point him to this thread?
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

  11. #11

    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Build the battery holder to work with all protected 18650 cells without having to clip springs and I'm a buyer.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    That sounds great.....
    I have my FF3 since a few Days and the Light is very impressive for its Size......
    If the FF4 is available it will be something like a Reflex if i push the Order Button;-)

  13. #13

    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Very interesting.... GB sounds good.

  14. #14
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    I would be interested as well but with a reflector this size, it really needs to be smooth. I "get" the small set-up which is one of the things that sets this light apart, so I wouldn't necessarily be in favor of increasing the size. I'm guessing we'll only be getting about 3 min runtime at 60W before stepdown though...lol. Still, It's kind of cool that it will do it.

  15. #15
    Flashaholic Fresh Light's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Good to hear that this is going to be HID. I think last I heard ma_sha had some translation that it was going to be more like a hotwire. Sounds like something that I might be interested in, especially if they keep that similar color temperature.
    Lambda and other high power Lights

  16. #16
    Enlightened Lumens Industry's Avatar
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    Default RE: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    I'm in!
    Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    I know it will go absolutely nowhere but i just have to say it....i wish he'd use a 5000K - Diamond White lamp. Or be a real pioneer and use a 4750K lamp.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

  18. #18

    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    FF 4: I want in on the GB, if there is one. Failing that, where do we sign up?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    I'll definately be getting one of these if they make the battery mag work with protected cells.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    I just got an FF3 and I'm still waiting on my batteries to arrive so I can fire it up, but I'm ready to buy the FF4 if the color temp is the same. I also agree with Colonel Sanders' mods. Offering a holster or leather protective carrying case would also be nice. (And a battery lock-out function if there isn't already one).

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Quote Originally Posted by cchurchi View Post
    I'll definately be getting one of these if they make the battery mag work with protected cells.
    Just curious why you want to use protected cells in this when full battery protection is already incorporated into the carrier?
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

  22. #22
    Enlightened Ray-o-light's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Yep, I'll be picking one up. Hope it has a smooth reflector too!

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    Just curious why you want to use protected cells in this when full battery protection is already incorporated into the carrier?
    Serious question Bob, because I'm not as electronically minded, would it matter if protected cells were used, as long the cell protection circuits were less aggressive than the protection built into the carrier? If I understand correctly, the battery protection would never have to kick in if the carrier did it first, thus the cells just acting as a back-up to the primary protection. One of the things I like about cell protection is the build in temperature circuit in each individual cell.

    Thanks buddy.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    It would be great to keep this thread going , maybe we get some type of pre-order.
    Current specs. and pricing on the new model would be nice.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    Serious question Bob, because I'm not as electronically minded, would it matter if protected cells were used, as long the cell protection circuits were less aggressive than the protection built into the carrier? If I understand correctly, the battery protection would never have to kick in if the carrier did it first, thus the cells just acting as a back-up to the primary protection. One of the things I like about cell protection is the build in temperature circuit in each individual cell.

    Thanks buddy.
    Paul, No, it wouldn't matter in function. Not that I am an expert in this but depending on the specs of the two different protection circuits, one would kick in before the other with the same end result. In both cases, (as far as the Low Voltage Cutoff {LVC} function) it's just a circuit that is attached to a bare cell for cell protection. So given the fact that - 1, One has to nearly butcher the carrier by cutting and nearly eliminating the negative end springs, 2, The danger of ripping the cell wrapper and creating a dead short are greatly increased, 3, the protected cells cost more than bare cells, and 4, Protection already exists (and probably much more sophisticated protection) -- why use protected cells? The light is not designed to use protected cells. My guess is that the LVC on the carrier is more conservative than the individual cell circuit and therefore, the cell circuit would never be used. And you really don't want to rely on the individual cell circuit for normal shutdown because it is so low - 2.5 Volts, or so, that it will shorten the life of the cell upon regular tripping. Individual cell protection circuits are not really designed to be used as a normal end of charge notification whereas, IIRC, the built-in FF circuit is. It might even be that the higher LVC (again, I believe it is) of the carrier might be designed to protect the ballast from too low an input Voltage. But a lot of what I said is really neither hear nor there because the carrier LVC probably cuts power long before the individual cell circuit does. It just goes back to why spend more, ruin the carrier and probably ruin the cells and increase your chances of a dead short trying to get them in and out without ripping the wrapper.
    Last edited by BVH; 02-23-2013 at 09:21 PM.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

  26. #26
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    No, it wouldn't matter in function. Not that I am an expert in this but depending on the specs of the two different protection circuits, one would kick in before the other with the same end result. In both cases, (as far as the Low Voltage Cutoff {LVC} function) it's just a circuit that is attached to a bare cell for cell protection. So given the fact that - 1, One has to nearly butcher the carrier by cutting and nearly eliminating the negative end springs, 2, The danger of ripping the cell wrapper and creating a dead short are greatly increased, 3, the protected cells cost more than bare cells, and 4, Protection already exists (and probably much more sophisticated protection) -- why use protected cells? The light is not designed to use protected cells. My guess is that the LVC on the carrier is more conservative than the individual cell circuit and therefore, the cell circuit would never be used. And you really don't want to rely on the individual cell circuit for normal shutdown because it is so low - 2.5 Volts, or so, that it will shorten the life of the cell upon regular tripping. Individual cell protection circuits are not really designed to be used as a normal end of charge notification whereas, IIRC, the built-in FF circuit is. It might even be that the higher LVC (again, I believe it is) of the carrier might be designed to protect the ballast from too low an input Voltage. But a lot of what I said is really neither hear nor there because the carrier LVC probably cuts power long before the individual cell circuit does. It just goes back to why spend more, ruin the carrier and probably ruin the cells and increase your chances of a dead short trying to get them in and out without ripping the wrapper.

    Ok this all makes sense, other than I didn't realize that protected cells are more prone to ripping the wrapper than not protected cells. Since I'm running protected cells in all of these different 3 & 4 x 18650 LED lights that should use protected cells, even though the lights have a low voltage cut-off. I just don't have many unprotected cells left these days and the ones that I have are starting to get a bit dated. I know that the FFIII drew a lot of interest from people out of the LED crowd and like me, they might have only a few or perhaps zero unprotected cells in their inventory. From that perspective, it's always nice to be able to use what you already have, which is why I was curious.

    All of this said however, the FFIII can still use protected cells?

  27. #27
    BVH's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    Ok this all makes sense, other than I didn't realize that protected cells are more prone to ripping the wrapper than not protected cells. Since I'm running protected cells in all of these different 3 & 4 x 18650 LED lights that should use protected cells, even though the lights have a low voltage cut-off. I just don't have many unprotected cells left these days and the ones that I have are starting to get a bit dated. I know that the FFIII drew a lot of interest from people out of the LED crowd and like me, they might have only a few or perhaps zero unprotected cells in their inventory. From that perspective, it's always nice to be able to use what you already have, which is why I was curious.

    All of this said however, the FFIII can still use protected cells?
    Yes, you can use them if they will physically fit lengthwise after having cut most of the negative spring off, leaving a much smaller contact area and a sharp point. Therein lies the reason for my comment on tearing the wrapper. At least with the FF3, the + buttons in the carrier are flat and have sharp edges. With the extra length of the protected cells, unless you really take the time with each and every cell, to get a good hold on the top of the cell, push it as hard as you can to 100% fully compress the spring and then carefully watch as you skoot the cells' outer case under and past the sharp button edge, you WILL tear it. And the same goes for extracting it. With the tiny plastic cutout on the carrier for your finger to compress the cell, it's easy to not get a good grip on it when removing it and end up with a torn wrapper. It's not really a matter of IF you're going to tear a wrapper as much as it is WHEN you're going to tear one.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

  28. #28

    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    Just curious why you want to use protected cells in this when full battery protection is already incorporated into the carrier?
    Protected cells are all I've got.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Quote Originally Posted by cchurchi View Post
    Protected cells are all I've got.
    Understood! You just have to be willing to cut most of the negative spring off.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

  30. #30
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fire Foxes IV FF4

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    Yes, you can use them if they will physically fit lengthwise after having cut most of the negative spring off, leaving a much smaller contact area and a sharp point. Therein lies the reason for my comment on tearing the wrapper. At least with the FF3, the + buttons in the carrier are flat and have sharp edges. With the extra length of the protected cells, unless you really take the time with each and every cell, to get a good hold on the top of the cell, push it as hard as you can to 100% fully compress the spring and then carefully watch as you skoot the cells' outer case under and past the sharp button edge, you WILL tear it. And the same goes for extracting it. With the tiny plastic cutout on the carrier for your finger to compress the cell, it's easy to not get a good grip on it when removing it and end up with a torn wrapper. It's not really a matter of IF you're going to tear a wrapper as much as it is WHEN you're going to tear one.

    oh, okay. Thanks for getting me up to speed Bob. See, I just didn't know enough about the current situation with the FFIII with the cut spring and the wrapper's tearing but it all makes sense now. If one is going to own the FFIII, like you stated, it just flat out makes sense to just order some unprotected cells rather than certainly ruining existing ones.

    That's why I ask you buddy!

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