Build quality, who is best?

Okay, so I look at lights for brightness, longevity, weight, size, etc All these are spec'd and you can reasonably compare light A to light B. Likewise the UI.

But what I can't tell from the specs is how well something is built. Is there one brand that just nails build quality? Awesome machining? Perfect coating? Perfect threading?

What else would you include in build quality?

For reference, I recently upgraded my Fenix PD30 to a PD32UE and there is a new G2 LD12 somewhere in transit. I like the build quality of Fenix, but is there better?

Ken

kbuzbee said:

Okay, so I look at lights for brightness, longevity, weight, size, etc All these are spec'd and you can reasonably compare light A to light B. Likewise the UI.

But what I can't tell from the specs is how well something is built. Is there one brand that just nails build quality? Awesome machining? Perfect coating? Perfect threading?

What else would you include in build quality?

For reference, I recently upgraded my Fenix PD30 to a PD32UE and there is a new G2 LD12 somewhere in transit. I like the build quality of Fenix, but is there better?

Ken

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Sure there's better. It might be good enough though, as the $ does come into play.

My Klarus stuff is better than my Fenix stuff for example, the Armytek stuff is very tough, and there are lights from Malkoff or MacGizmo for example that are famously tough, etc.

Surefire, HDS, Malkoff to name a few.

TEEJ said:

It might be good enough though, as the $ does come into play.

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Excellent point. I mean my PD32UE was only like $60. For that money it's fantastic. I was just kinda wondering.

So several names I read frequently... HDS, Malkoff, Surefire (don't know Klarus) But is there as "best"? Or simply "better"?

Ken

kbuzbee said:

Excellent point. I mean my PD32UE was only like $60. For that money it's fantastic. I was just kinda wondering.

So several names I read frequently... HDS, Malkoff, Surefire (don't know Klarus) But is there as "best"? Or simply "better"?

Ken

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Lets just say that the thread would be shut down if a discussion like that got started in earnest.

No light is perfect, some have more trouble than others..and some have the type of trouble that don't matter to their owners due to brand loyalty and/or the lights other attributes that compensate, etc.


A reasonably priced light, the Klarus XT11, is a very sturdy edc type light with a tactical UI, one of the best tactical UI's in the biz....at least super popular among the local LEO's, etc.

I can throw an XT11 against a wall, lit, and it will stay lit. I can drop it off a 30' scaffold, same deal...I can't break it by accident so far, that's for sure. The aluminum tube is hella thick, thicker than the tubes on my Malkoffs for example, with lots of threads to overlap, etc....and the Malkoffs are tough enough that I could probably shoot the dam things and they'd still work, etc.

I have used a lot of decent lights, and , well, they are ALL a lot tougher now a days than lights used to be. There are some lights (Other than SureFire) that end in -Fire, that were crap. I might drop them, and they might disintegrate. I might mount them on a weapon, and see them break apart just from the recoil forces, or the cells jack-hammering, and so forth. There are plenty of "DX Lights", an assortment of clones of real lights that advertise a bazillion lumens and to be able to hit the moon and light up the craters, but that were mediocre at best, and DIB at worst.

So, some are tough but the light output itself might be a bit weak for some of us, and some go for massive output, but, sacrifice durability, or run time, etc. There are SO many things that go into being best, that all I can say is there is no ONE light that's "best", except to the guy who feels that way.

"Best" is subjective.
Different people might have different definitions of "best".
Also, there may be some lights with some aspects which are "best" in my opinion, and other lights which have other "best" aspects, but neither light has it "all". That's pretty common across the board for some lights to have some good points and other lesser points.

A good example is that I think that the Oveready/TorchLab Pocket Triple is my idea of the "best" pocket light out there, but I think its progressive clicky UI is not my idea of the "best" UI. However, I still like that light the "best" of all EDC lights, even though I think the UI could be improved.
I think the Malkoff Hi/Lo type of UI is the "best" UI, but it doesn't fit into my pocket as easily as the OR Pocket Triple, nor is it as bright. But it's still a great light, and I use them when I want to carry a slightly larger light.

how about prometheus alpha lights?. build quality has to be right on top . best stuff used, but then again SF is good too.
thanks.

TEEJ said:

There are SO many things that go into being best, that all I can say is there is no ONE light that's "best", except to the guy who feels that way.

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Exactly. I was not asking a best light question, just focusing of build quality... What I think of as machining, coating etc. Just that one small aspect.

By example, I would never argue my GShock is of the same build quality as a Rolex. But it's Solar powered, it's atomic, it's "best" for me(and $50k cheaper), but it isn't built like a Rolex.. That's kinda what I'm asking.

Ken

twl said:

"Best" is subjective.
Different people might have different definitions of "best".
Also, there may be some lights with some aspects which are "best" in my opinion, and other lights which have other "best" aspects, but neither light has it "all". That's pretty common across the board for some lights to have some good points and other lesser points.

A good example is that I think that the Oveready/TorchLab Pocket Triple is my idea of the "best" pocket light out there, but I think its progressive clicky UI is not my idea of the "best" UI. However, I still like that light the "best" of all EDC lights, even though I think the UI could be improved.
I think the Malkoff Hi/Lo type of UI is the "best" UI, but it doesn't fit into my pocket as easily as the OR Pocket Triple, nor is it as bright. But it's still a great light, and I use them when I want to carry a slightly larger light.

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Best answer here! Best in the flashlight world is indeed subjective. I think that my HDS is the best EDC type flashlight ever made but some will think it is not bright enough, and others will think that it uses "weird" battery. I think the best flashlight is the one that is with you when you really needed a light.

neutralwhite said:

how about prometheus alpha lights?. build quality has to be right on top . best stuff used, but then again SF is good too.
thanks.

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Yes, I think this is along the lines of what I was trying to ask. (those look beautiful, by the way!)

Ken

kbuzbee said:

Exactly. I was not asking a best light question, just focusing of build quality... What I think of as machining, coating etc. Just that one small aspect.

By example, I would never argue my GShock is of the same build quality as a Rolex. But it's Solar powered, it's atomic, it's "best" for me(and $50k cheaper), but it isn't built like a Rolex.. That's kinda what I'm asking.

Ken

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Based on what you said, your Fenix really is best. Although I don't own any Fenix light (mainly because I hate the name), I do know that they are built pretty tough and are dependable. That and the modest pricing make them best for your usage.

Maybe, one day you might want to try lights from some custom makers. I love the Prometheus and it is one of my favorite. I also love my Mac Tri-EDC and McGizmo. May I have the privilege to tempt you in this direction?

kbuzbee said:

But what I can't tell from the specs is how well something is built. Is there one brand that just nails build quality? Awesome machining? Perfect coating? Perfect threading?

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You might want to lower your standards slightly. Even McGizmo who makes stunningly expensive flashlights doesn't guarantee perfection.

As for flashlights with consistently excellent build quality, there is McGizmo, of course, HDS Systems, and Surefire. The rest seem to be a bit of a crap shoot.

kbuzbee said:

Exactly. I was not asking a best light question, just focusing of build quality... What I think of as machining, coating etc. Just that one small aspect.

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Are you shopping for sculpture or a light? Perfect knurling is far less important for reliability than good design.

the.Mtn.Man said:

You might want to lower your standards slightly. Even McGizmo who makes stunningly expensive flashlights doesn't guarantee perfection.

As for flashlights with consistently excellent build quality, there is McGizmo, of course, HDS Systems, and Surefire. The rest seem to be a bit of a crap shoot.

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What about Malkoff? You left out Malkoff?

And that probably summarises it. I have a TrustFire X6 and the build quality, quality of machining, anodizing is 'truly sublime' as others have put it. But I have heard of others of the same light that are apparently at the crap end of the 'crap shoot'.

With Surefire that does not seem to be the case - so often anyway but there are plenty of reports on CPF of SureFires where you would have to wonder. And there are many other threads like this one.

the.Mtn.Man said:

there is McGizmo, of course, HDS Systems, and Surefire. The rest seem to be a bit of a crap shoot.

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Dunno what the 'best' is, but the best light I own is probably the Malkoff MD2. The machining is second to none. In fact I'm amazed at how smooth Gene managed to get the threads. Dropping it many times onto concrete barely takes the anno off. Any other brand would have dents in the aluminium.

What would make it the ultimate light would be a UI similar to the Quark Tactical series. That'd just about be the only light you'd need then, save for throwing. Really wish Gene would do something with crazy, bright, throw. Somewhere in the vicinity of 150k+ lux - XM-L with a big reflector and copper heatsink to drive that baby hard! Three inch head on an MD4 body would look very cool.

Gene, Gene... are you reading this?

I will throw my 2cents in here, not as a flashaholic but as someone who works as a Quality Engineer for automotive air bags. If you are looking for true bulletproof electronics that have to work every time for years. Under true high stress and in any conceivable environment your looking at a $800 peice of gear. Thats not just paying for the materials and build but for the R&D and testing that goes into it.
There is a limit on quality, and its baised on how much a consumer (normal consumer) is willing to pay for a product. Surefire is at the edge of the market with its pricing, but can do so because of the police and military market and tax dollars that get pumped into its buisness from those sources. For a civilian driven market the better lights on the market do a wonderfull job within a pricepoint that is "reasonable" for the product that they sell.
I have 4/7, Jetbeam, Surefire, Klarus and Olite flashlights and think I am getting a good deal for my money. I really could not ask for more out of any of them at the price that I paid.

kbuzbee said:

By example, I would never argue my GShock is of the same build quality as a Rolex. But it's Solar powered, it's atomic, it's "best" for me(and $50k cheaper), but it isn't built like a Rolex.. That's kinda what I'm asking.

Ken

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That's actually an ironic example, since one could argue Gshocks have *better* build quality than Rolex, since they can take more abuse and continue functioning. Then again - the machining is not nearly as precise, the materials are not nearly as fine, and the design (sans microchip) is - not nearly as intricate. But, the Gshock *is* tougher.

So even in Gshock vs. Rolex, we have subjectivity in terms of build quality.

pjandyho said:

Maybe, one day you might want to try lights from some custom makers. I love the Prometheus and it is one of my favorite. I also love my Mac Tri-EDC and McGizmo. May I have the privilege to tempt you in this direction?

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It may happen one day but I doubt it at this point. I'm really very happy with my Fenixi. The PD30 was more than I've ever needed. It never missed a beat. Now it's relegated to the car. But if I ever do, you can take the credit. Deal?

the.Mtn.Man said:

You might want to lower your standards slightly. Even McGizmo who makes stunningly expensive flashlights doesn't guarantee perfection.

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Point taken, it was intended as more of an expression than a fact.

whiteoakjoe said:

your looking at a $800 peice of gear.... There is a limit on quality, and its baised on how much a consumer (normal consumer) is willing to pay for a product.

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That's actually a much better way to have phrased my original question, thanks! Your point on the government influx of cash to Surefire is a good one.

mmace1 said:

That's actually an ironic example, since one could argue Gshocks have *better* build quality than Rolex, since they can take more abuse and continue functioning. Then again - the machining is not nearly as precise, the materials are not nearly as fine, and the design (sans microchip) is - not nearly as intricate. But, the Gshock *is* tougher.

So even in Gshock vs. Rolex, we have subjectivity in terms of build quality.

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Excellent point! It does come down to definitions, doesn't it? Maybe craftsmanship is a better term than quality?

For my own needs I value reliability and function to my own levels (as most do, I would guess) and both G-Shock and Fenix seem to hit my needs spot on. I guess I was just curious about what is considered the current state of the art (manufacturing wise) than anything.

Thanks all for a great discussion!

Ken