Cyberattack could leave us without power for months.

TK41

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Aug 29, 2011
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I have no idea which forum this would fall in, so please move this if necessary.

If you haven't already, start stocking up on batteries, fellow flashaholics. Things just got even more real.


"A cyberattack could so severely damage a utility that millions of people might be left without power for months, experts say..."
http://www.mercurynews.com/business...hic-cyberattack-could-hit-utilities-like-pg-e

Successful attacks already occurred in some areas:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/1...is-water-utility-may-confirm-Stuxnet-warnings
 

Kitchen Panda

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Aug 28, 2011
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I have no idea which forum this would fall in, so please move this if necessary.

If you haven't already, start stocking up on batteries, fellow flashaholics. Things just got even more real.


"A cyberattack could so severely damage a utility that millions of people might be left without power for months, experts say..."
http://www.mercurynews.com/business...hic-cyberattack-could-hit-utilities-like-pg-e

Successful attacks already occurred in some areas:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/1...is-water-utility-may-confirm-Stuxnet-warnings

Well, those of us who are already stocked up for the zombie apocalypse and the invasion by North Korea have little additional to fear from the only-slightly-more-plausible collapse of the electrical grid.

But *think* about this - was the East Coast without electric power for "months" after the August 2003 blackout?

Glamorous sounding "cyberattacks" are basically turning things on or off by remote control...once you trip a circuit breaker remotely, it's still *there* and ready to go again when reset. Power plants trip for all manner of reasons and get restarted without ever making the headlines. Shutting down a utility website is like tearing down a poster they'd put up! The part that makes the wires hum isn't even *connected* to the part where Redi Kilowatt tells you how to pay your bills on-line.


All that Y2K panic a few years ago at least got people reviewing their black start plans, etc.

You probably have more to fear from people who game the system in a quest for optimizing revenue, than from "cyberattacks" - more people got blacked out in California by speculators than by foreign attackers.

I know a lot of people in the utilities business, locally anyway, and I'm reasonably sure they can keep bad guys out of their PCs.

Bill
 

SCEMan

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Treasure Valley, Idaho
Although cyber attacks on the grid are a real threat, another more likely risk is the forced (30% in California) portfolio requirement for renewable "green power". Since this type of power is resource dependent (e.g., wind, sun, water levels) and unless backed by adequate spinning reserves of traditional (gas, nuclear, coal, etc.) power; outages are more and more likely to occur.
 

TEEJ

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NJ
Although cyber attacks on the grid are a real threat, another more likely risk is the forced (30% in California) portfolio requirement for renewable "green power". Since this type of power is resource dependent (e.g., wind, sun, water levels) and unless backed by adequate spinning reserves of traditional (gas, nuclear, coal, etc.) power; outages are more and more likely to occur.

Ironically...at least 30% will still have power?

:D
 

TK41

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Aug 29, 2011
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I wonder what we did BEFORE batteries ??????????????????????????????

If you are trying to suggest fire/candles, then yes, sure. But there are many heavily populated places (apartments, condos, ect... in areas such as LA, SF, NY in the USA) which those would not be the greatest backups plans.

I'll take batteries please. Loads of CR123s.
 

StorminMatt

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Oct 30, 2012
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Norcal
Ha-Ha, doesn't quite work that way... But hopefully California can get some power from those nasty coal-fired plants on those cloudy, windless, summer drought days :thumbsup:

I don't know where you live in California. But up here in Sacramento, a cloudy day in summer is about as rare as finding a $20 bill on the street. And even if it IS cloudy, it's the kind of fine, wispy, high level cloudiness that still allows LOTS of sunshine to reach the ground. In fact, at least from May to September, inland Northern California is the most consistently sunny place on the planet.

Norcal winters are another matter, and can be quite rainy and gloomy. But then again, you'll have PLENTY of rain and wind.
 
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SCEMan

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Treasure Valley, Idaho
I don't know where you live in California. But up here in Sacramento, a cloudy day in summer is about as rare as finding a $20 bill on the street. And even if it IS cloudy, it's the kind of fine, wispy, high level cloudiness that still allows LOTS of sunshine to reach the ground. In fact, at least from May to September, inland Northern California is the most consistently sunny place on the planet.

Norcal winters are another matter, and can be quite rainy and gloomy. But then again, you'll have PLENTY of rain and wind.

What we perceive as sunny does not directly correlate to solar panel performance. I've seen desert solar farm performance data on apparently clear days that fluctuated throughout the cycle when one would think it should be a flat 100%. Right now in winter, reservoir levels are high, but when summer rolls around and levels are low and there's an unplanned generator maintenance outage coupled with a major wind farm windless condition (it happens) - rolling blackouts may happen. We just squeaked by without a CAISO stage 3 alert last year due to an unusually mild summer.

Remember, all that hot day, windy, full reservoir generator power produced must be used or sold - right now! At this point in battery technology, we can't store enough electrical energy (unlike natural gas) in reserve for high demand periods. In the post deregulated California, the fossil fuel spinning reserve power plants are long gone. And, not enough gas turbine (or other) "peaker" plants exist to fill the gap. Also, we still import 30% of our power from out-of-state, and transport failures are not uncommon (If you remember the path 15 "overload" several years back, where So Cal had excess power but couldn't get it to a low reserve Nor Cal due to a capacity bottleneck). Bottom line (IMHO) is that in addition to higher costs (non-nuclear), "green power", has increased the potential for unplanned power outages due environmental dependencies, and unfortunately as in many things, California will be the guinea pig in this experiment. :shakehead

Sorry for dragging this thread off-topic...:rolleyes:
 
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mcnair55

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Oct 27, 2009
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North Wales UK
I have no idea which forum this would fall in, so please move this if necessary.

If you haven't already, start stocking up on batteries, fellow flashaholics. Things just got even more real.


"A cyberattack could so severely damage a utility that millions of people might be left without power for months, experts say..."
http://www.mercurynews.com/business...hic-cyberattack-could-hit-utilities-like-pg-e

Successful attacks already occurred in some areas:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/1...is-water-utility-may-confirm-Stuxnet-warnings


Watch the new tv series Revolution,will be right up your street.

J.J. Abrams presents an epic adventure that explores what life would be like with no power in the new show Revolution.
 

Cinder

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Oct 13, 2009
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Philippines
I've watched the first season of Revolution and not even flashlights (or anything battery powered) worked. Back to basics!
 
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