Attn: Anyone familiar with SF P90: What LED drop-in is closest to P90?

I love the P90 lamp assembly in my Surefire 3-cell lights. I've been using one as my primary bike light. It is the closest thing I've found to a perfect bike light (or flashlight, for that matter), with adequate brightness and just the right combination of hotspot and spill. It's no less useful off the bike.

Since the P90 is an incan, I like to keep a LED backup light mounted while I'm riding (and in my pocket/bag when I'm not). While dancing with traffic is not the optimal time to lose a headlight without a backup a click away. Plus, when there's enough ambient light that I don't need my light to see with, I switch to the LED backup as a "be seen" light in order to conserve lamp-hours and runtime.

I would like to find a drop-in that replicates as closely as possible the P90. Obviously that means high CRI (≥90) and a warm tint, though neutral white would not be a deal breaker if it's high CRI. I'm finding the right beam profile to be critical, too. Not having a lot of light where I don't want it is as important as having a lot of light where I want it. Max brightness is probably the least important consideration, since I'm trying to replicate a 105 lumen incan lamp assembly.

Right now, I'm using a Thrunite XP-G 3-mode drop-in, fairly cool tint. It's brighter than the P90, but not nearly as useful as a bike light. The beam profile seems reasonably close (except for the oblong Surefire hotspot). In use, I see the beam more than the stuff I'm targeting in that beam, at least compared to the P90. I'm not sure if that's because of the low CRI, the tint, the beam profile, or something else.

I've also tried drop-ins with: a cool-white MC-E (too much spill, not enough throw), a cool white XM-L (too much spill, not enough throw), XR-Es, both warm and cool (not enough spill). None have shown the promise of the XP-G with respect to beam profile. The warm XR-E (not high CRI) has the most pleasant tint of all the LED drop-ins I've tried. I've not yet tried a Nichia 219.

Does anyone have experience with the P90 and know of an LED drop-in that's reasonably close? Ideally, it would be something that would run on a single 17670 cell, up to three 16340 IMR cells (basically any battery I can fit into a 6P or 9P), but running on a 17670 (for at least an hour) or two primaries is mandatory. 1-, 2- (H-L/L-H), or 3- (H-M-L/L-M-H) mode is fine, though even disco modes are acceptable if it meets the other criteria.

The primary role is on the bike, but the light will also serve as at least a backup EDC.

As far as budget goes, I'll consider anything. I'm fine with spending the money for a Malkoff if that's what will provide what I'm looking for. I'd even pay more for a triple if I thought it would do what I want (though I don't think it will).

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

If you want a multimode drop-in, you can ask nailbender or vinhnguyen54 to build you HCRI XP-G2 multimode drop-in with the correct voltage. XP-G2 has narrower viewing angle compared to XP-G, so it will have tighter beam.

Nichia 219 will get similar beam profile as XP-G.

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

enomosiki said:

If you want a multimode drop-in …

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I'm fine with single mode. It's better than multimode, actually, but it's not important enough to matter.

enomosiki said:

XP-G2 has narrower viewing angle compared to XP-G, so it will have tighter beam.

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How does it compare to the P90?

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

I think an XM-L in OP reflector will be closer.

Thicker, wider hotspot.

For an incandescent look, you'll want something under 4000K.

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

LEDAdd1ct said:

I think an XM-L in OP reflector will be closer.

Thicker, wider hotspot.

For an incandescent look, you'll want something under 4000K.

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I've tried the XM-L. It has too much spill and not enough flood, not very useful for the task at hand.

I'm not after the incan look; I'd like to try to replicate the P90's utility with an LED drop-in. While that will certainly require high-CRI, I'm fine with neutral tint if the beam profile is superior.

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

I'd say that a Malkoff M61HCRI is the way to go, though you'll have to find a used one since I think they were a limited run. The tint is very close to an incandescent, but with a lot more run time.

Going cheaper and more readily available, you can get a single-mode drop in with a 90CRI XP-G made in the Customs forum, but the Malkoff voltage range (up to 9v) will be hard to match.

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

the high cri xp-g is the closes LED that ive seen to an incan in terms of tint and cri.

have you considered the XM-L2? in the same reflector, should give you better throw than XM-L.

how about using 2 lights? one for flood and the other for throw, or two lights with decent throw?
advantages would be having a backup, maybe running at lower output thus getting better efficiency, and less heat.

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

Z-Tab said:

I'd say that a Malkoff M61HCRI is the way to go, though you'll have to find a used one since I think they were a limited run. The tint is very close to an incandescent, but with a lot more run time.

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Is there any advantage of the M61 HCRI over the M61 219? Tint isn't a concern as long as it isn't cool white. High CRI is a big concern.

Z-Tab said:

Going cheaper and more readily available, you can get a single-mode drop in with a 90CRI XP-G made in the Customs forum, but the Malkoff voltage range (up to 9v) will be hard to match.

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What are the differences in beam profile of the Malkoff versus Nailbender versus Vinhnguyen versus P90?

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

skyfire said:

have you considered the XM-L2? in the same reflector, should give you better throw than XM-L.

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I haven't tried the XP-G2, XM-L2, or Nichia 219. The beam profile of the XM-L drop-in I tried was pretty useless.

how about using 2 lights? one for flood and the other for throw, or two lights with decent throw?

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For a few years, I was using 2 hosts (sometimes 3) with various combinations of MC-E, XR-E, XM-L, and XP-G drop-ins. Usually the MC-E was used in one of the hosts. I got too much light where I didn't want it and not enough where I did. For cycling, despite being much brighter, none of those combinations works for me as well as the P90. That's why I'd like to replicate the latter's beam profile with a drop-in with a high CRI emitter. (Again, I'm not concerned with tint.)

I plan to continue using the P90 as my primary light. I'm not looking for a replacement; it's pretty much perfect for the task. I'm looking for a backup that might be nearly as useful when it is needed.

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

JCD said:

Is there any advantage of the M61 HCRI over the M61 219? Tint isn't a concern as long as it isn't cool white. High CRI is a big concern.

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The advantage is mainly tint. The CRI is similar between the two, but the HCRI's tint is almost exactly the same as a P90. The 219 is great (I sold my M61HCRI after I got one), but at 4500-5000k, it is more of a neutral white.

JCD said:

What are the differences in beam profile of the Malkoff versus Nailbender versus Vinhnguyen versus P90?

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I would think that Nailbender and Vinhnguyen's drop-ins would be almost identical, I believe that the Malkoff will be a tiny bit floodier, but the difference should be minimal. You're not going to get incan-like throw from an LED without going for a bigger reflector.

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

Z-Tab said:

The advantage is mainly tint. The CRI is similar between the two, but the HCRI's tint is almost exactly the same as a P90. The 219 is great (I sold my M61HCRI after I got one), but at 4500-5000k, it is more of a neutral white.



I would think that Nailbender and Vinhnguyen's drop-ins would be almost identical, I believe that the Malkoff will be a tiny bit floodier, but the difference should be minimal. You're not going to get incan-like throw from an LED without going for a bigger reflector.

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I almost pulled the trigger on a M61 219 last night, but then couldn't decide between the M61 or M61L. Perhaps I should also try out one of Nailbender's potted offerings for comparison. I'm trying to avoid collecting a bunch of drop-ins, though. Hmmm …

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

the M61 219 have less throw than the xp-g malkoff models. this is because the reflector is fixed and was designed for a xp-g. so the nichia 219 in the malkoff doesnt quite sit perfectly within the reflector. it causes some minor faint rings, and the beam is different.
the xp-g malkoffs have a flawless reflector beam. with a defined hotspot. but the contrast between hotspot and spill is not great.
the malkoffs with nicha 219 have a beam where the hotspot is less defined, and blends pretty evenly with the spill.

i dont think any of the reflector based malkoff drop-in will provide you with the throw youre looking for, because the reflectors are smaller than most p60 sized reflectors.
if you want better throw you would be better off with a malkoff using xp-g2 which oveready has.

i still have a xpg high cri nailbender dropin, and his xp-g drop-in is driven harder, and has a bigger reflector, so it has better throw.
ill dig it up later tonight and compare it to my malkoff m61 hcri and get back to you about its throw.

EDIT:
so i took a look at the nailbender xpg hcri drop-in i have. it uses a OP reflector. and compared to my m61hcri it throws a little better, with a slighty more tight hotspot.

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

The P90 (P91 actually) was around 500 lumens at start up and fairly floody, so all the other options (219/XPG) are going to have a smaller hotspot and less output overall. The LED that best replicates the P90 is the 90CRI XML, which is a quad die LED. You can contact nailbender for a drop in with that LED.

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

yifu said:

The P90 was around 500 lumens at start up and fairly floody …

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I think you have the P90 confused with something else. The P90 is a 105 lumen incan lamp assembly with excellent throw (not Surefire's throwiest LA, but very good). It is the stock lamp assembly in the Surefire 9P, C3, G3, D3, and 9Z. Surefire's lumen stats aren't based on startup, though, so the P90 might be as high as 200 lumens at startup, but not 500.

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

JCD said:

I think you have the P90 confused with something else. The P90 is a 105 lumen incan lamp assembly with excellent throw (not Surefire's throwiest LA, but very good). It is the stock lamp assembly in the Surefire 9P, C3, G3, D3, and 9Z. Surefire's lumen stats aren't based on startup, though, so the P90 might be as high as 200 lumens at startup, but not 500.

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Yep, i've mistaken it for a P91, which was the first thing that came to my mind. In that case a hiCRI XPG or 219 would do the job well.

Z-Tab said everything that I would have (& probably better and more clearly) - you absolutely want a Malkoff M61HCRI ... and no, mine is not for sale

Personally, I greatly prefer the high CRI XP-G to the Nichia 219 (although I realize that is probably the less popular opinion).

I've compared the P90 incan to my collection of Malkoff modules and I think that the M61WL comes closest to matching the output and tint. The color temp is 3700K and CRI is 80, but side by side with the P90 I don't see a lot of difference. The Illumination Supply Malkoff 219 HCRI is 4500K and definitely not as warm a color. The OverReady XP-G neutral is 4000K but still not as warm as the Warm direct from Gene. On the plus side, you will get about 7 hours out of 3 cells with any of these modules in a 9P.

mbw_151 said:

I've compared the P90 incan to my collection of Malkoff modules and I think that the M61WL comes closest to matching the output and tint. The color temp is 3700K and CRI is 80, but side by side with the P90 I don't see a lot of difference. The Illumination Supply Malkoff 219 HCRI is 4500K and definitely not as warm a color. The OverReady XP-G neutral is 4000K but still not as warm as the Warm direct from Gene. On the plus side, you will get about 7 hours out of 3 cells with any of these modules in a 9P.

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Thanks for comparing. Does the M61WL match best in beam profile? I don't care about matching the tint (as long as it isn't cool white), but high CRI is mandatory (M61L High CRI should have identical beam profile as M61WL). I suspect that I'll need 2-3 times as much output as the P90, since LED hotspots are round instead of oblong, so will cover more area given the same hotspot width (I use the P90 with the longest axis of the oblong hotspot oriented horizontally).

The drop-in will go into a 6P or Z2 host with a 17670 (or 2x 16340, if more appropriate) as my backup light and for use when ambient lighting is high. The P90 based 9P will remain my primary light; it's my backup lights that I find unsatisfactory.

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

yifu said:

The LED that best replicates the P90 is the 90CRI XML, which is a quad die LED.

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The Cree XM-L and XM-L2 are single die LEDs.

EDIT: My mistake! I checked Google and you are right.

Re: LED drop-in closest to P90?

Update:
I recently ordered a used Lumens Factory high CRI XP-G dropin from CPFMP. It arrived yesterday, and I tried it out tonight. Its tint is noticeably warmer than my P90s, which surprised me. I'm not sure I care for that. I like the incan to appear warm and welcoming when I switch it on; that's not going to happen when it looks cool compared to the backup LED.

It's the best option I have so far, better than my previous XP-G dropin. Still, it leaves something to be desired, and is not nearly as effective by itself as a single P90. The spill is not as wide as with the P90, nor does the XP-G throw as well. As a backup, it will do for a while, though I'll probably try out something with a Nichia 219, either Malkoff, Nailbender, or both.

I'll keep the LF drop-in, even if I find something better suited to back up the P90. I might try coupling the high CRI XP-G with my even warmer XR-E in a pair of Z2s. The pair might make a good loaner headlight for when I introduce friends to the joys of night cycling.