I absolutely LOVE the SF LOTC! Why clickies?

I have to say that I am so very impressed with the SureFire Lock Out Tail Cap! What an ingenious and reliable component! And so useful. I routinely lock it out, and I love the security of knowing it will not accidentally turn on. I also love the choice of constant on, or momentary on. And, from my experience, this has got to be one reliable switch. Much more reliable than the maglite pushbutton style switches, at any rate. I very much appreciate how easy the switch is to find and to activate. It can be done from any number of angles and hand positions, and facilitates a "tactical" grip. As I said, I love it.

So my question is, why are the Z series clickie switches so popular. Geepondy in particular tricked me into buying the Z49 for my D2 with his sig line. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Just kidding, geepondy. Still, though. I hated it almost instantly. You have to really jam your thumb straight in to get past the rubber surround which limits the different hand positions you can use, and it is longer than the LOTC. I haven't seen or used the clickie for the E series lights, so maybe I'm missing something, but can anybody shed any light on why SureFire seems to be abandoning it's brilliantly designed and eminently useful LOTC in favor of the "clikie"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Id say, that with a clickie you have a more convenient one hand operation as opposed to the LOTC which can sometimes need two hands or is a bit tricky with one hand. At least thats my opinion and I have short fingers.

I think the clickie is still being refined but I guess my simple answer is that of speed and ease in which a constant on mode can be achieved. For me, momentary on is the most important switching function. To transist from momentary to constant on by simply depressing the switch further is the most intuitive as well as quickest method I can think of. Certainly the reliability must be there and with a well designed switch, the mechanical requirements are such that a clickie can be as dependable as the more simple LOTC. Certainly there are more components and due to wear, the clickie "might" require replacement sooner than the simple LOTC. However, most good switches have a cycle life in the tens to hundreds of thousands so I will take the "shorter" life of the clickie in exchange for its ease of use.

So, people are saying that the clickie is easier to use. hmmm. Interesting, because I find it harder to use. Personal taste, I guess. Am I in the vast minority here? Is there anyone out there besides me who finds the LOTC easier to use, and more convenient, overall? Don't get me wrong, I can see where the clickie has its advantages, but, as I said, overall I prefer the LOTC? Any other throwbacks out there?

js,
I prefer the LOTC on the C2 and M3 for defensive use, but I prefer the clickie on E series lights that are for EDC.

i feel the complete opposite. i said to he!! with my Z52! that momentary was stiff as a dang board! and im just not to fond of having to use 2 hands for constant light(twisting the tailcap on). so my E1e now sports a Z57! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif i love it! and it can still be locked out.

My E2e came with the Z52 and since it was my first surefire I just accepted the amount of pressure it took to momentary. I got a G2 next and was very happy with the pressure required to light it. I bought an L4 tube and Z57 for my KL4 head and the clickie Z57 is amazing and as previously mentioned it too can be locked out. the Z52 is extremely stiff compared to its stablemates.I have an E1e/KL1 on the way now and I will probably order two Z57s to replace the Z52 assys.

Very interesting!

I had no idea the Z57 clickie could be locked out. Does it have the rubber surround as well?

jim: i have to agree with you...i've generally had bad experiences with clickies, as the electrical contacts in the clickie would quickly get fouled or oxidized with regular usage and cause the light to become intermittant (e.g. my arc LSH-P). to ensure that the clickie remained reliable, i frequently had to clean and service it, which is something i -never- have to worry about with the LOTCs on my surefires.

i absolutely hate it when a light flickers or dims as i push the clickie. prior to my discovery of CPF and in my days as a pre-teen, i would get extremely frustrated with cheap 2D lights that would turn off when i rotated to a particular point, which was caused by the batteries shifting around in the battery tube. i was amazed at the design of maglites at that time, which ensured this problem never reared its ugly head. IMHO, cheap 2D lights are to maglites, the same way clickies are to LOTCs.

perhaps surefire's clickies are a different animal, and i might change my mind when i get the opportunity to use one over a prolonged period of time. till then, i'll be a die-hard LOTC fan /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jim sexton: all of surefires clickies can be locked out, but only the Z48/Z49 clickies have a rubber surround, which can be removed if so desired. from the short review of the L5 on the LED forum, i might have to give surefire's LOTCs a try eventually /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

JS-

I strongly agree with your comments and have posted them here previously!

I use momentary mode probably 99% of the time. I think that by using a clickie, users unthinkingly drain the batteries faster than is needed. I believe this is because it takes a postive thought to "turn the light off" whereas with the LOTC a simple release of pressure does the same. None of this "oh, my light is still on, I guess should turn it of, I'm wasting batteries" mode for me.

How much does a replacement clickie cost?

GregR

Rubber surround as well as *what*? It is not like the Z48 that has a substantial rubber surround that actually allows for tail-standing. At first glance, the Z57 looks quite similar to the standard LOTC. You just see the rubber-covered nubbin poking out the back. As far as it being harder to operate than the standard - I just can't imagine how that could be... unless the latch portion is too stiff as has been the case in some situations. When working properly, the switch could not be simpler or easier to operate. You push for momentary, and push harder to latch.

And certainly the Z57 IS a LOTC as well. Since momentar is so easy to operate, I typically do lock it out when I carry it in a bag.

I too prefer the standard LOTC. I don't mind the clickie on my L4 but just prefer the LOTC.

i must say the Z52 LOTC on the E series surefires were more stiff than i liked though. the tension on the regular LOTC is perfect IMHO.

darrell: if i'm not wrong the rubber surround was initially meant to guard against accidental activation of the switch. however it was apparently later found to be more of a hindrance than a help, which is why the A2 has the groove meant for the rubber surround, but did not ship with it.

Can't you treat the "clickies" as if they were just standard LOTCs? Click it to "on" and then just use it like a standard LOTC to twist "on" and "off" although that doesn't help w/"momentary on"

i think the issue i have with clickies isn't the way they're operated, but rather their more finicky nature. i haven't read any reports of surefire's clickies being intermittant, so i'll have to check them out soon enough /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

This is a very interesting thread. I love clickies over LOTC's simply because I do a lot of camping and in the dark, (and maybe sleepy), I don't even want to deal with twisting end caps on and off. I like pushing an end cap and light comes on and when I'm done, I push it again and it goes off. I don't like most momentary on switches because they are too EASILY "momentary on".

I have had clickies that were too hard to push on and I'm not a big fan of the popular Z57's because they are larger than the E series LOTC's they replace. I really like the clickies the ingenious modders have come up with here on CPF!

I dont know about you guys but I can easily twist the LOTC for constant on with just my one hand that is holding the light. Maybe I am just good at it.

Edit: Perhaps it is easier done for me, because my one and only surefire is an E2e-HA, which is probably shorter than some of the other lights you guys are talking about.

chamenos,

Thanks for the info. I didn't like the Z48/49 clickie I bought MOSTLY because of that rubber surround. If I'd known I could have removed it, I would have tried that before selling it. I like to be able to use the flat of my thumb to activate the light, and not have to angle it in to get past a rubber surround. Also, the Z48/49 clickies are LARGER in diameter than the body of a 6P/D2/C2 etc. This does not appeal to me, I must say. I have the impression that the Z57 is also larger than the body of an E2/E2e/L4/etc and that it doesn't have a rubber surround. This is what someone said above, right? Also, how does one lock out the clikies? By turning them back a full turn, same as LOTC?

Anyway, I'll definitely give the clickie another try if a buy an E2e or L4. So many people prefer it to the LOTC that I'll risk another $30, I guess. But for the moment, I'm a confirmed LOTC fan.

The Z57 isn't larger in diameter than the body just a 1/8 inch longer. I just unthread it 1 full turn or more to disable the actuation. 1/8 inch isn't much difference in length.Having been a mechanic the twist to lock on is not a difficult operation, same motion as spinning a socket on a ratchet using my fingers. Thanks to a post in this section in another thread My LOTC momentary is so much easier to operate now I might just stick with the Z52