How to compare lights?

Asr34

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I was directed here by Travis Haley's blog. I'm looking for information on how to compare the best weapon light for use on my rifle. I run a Surefire x300 on my pistol, and I have a Surfire compact lumamax mounted on my rifle now (I forget the exact model I bought it like 6 years ago). Anyway, the lumamax isn't cutting it, so I'm shopping for a new light now. I have a streamlight tlr3, but I'm not sure that's quite up to the job either. Plus I don't know if it shipped with a bad battery, but the light got really dim after using it on one search.

My question is, how do I compare lights? I know It's not all about lumens, but what else should I look for? How do you measure "throw"? I found drastically different lumen and candela power from the manufacturer websites, than what is listed in reviews.


The lights I'm currently thinking about are the inforce, Surefire x300 ultra, streamlight tlr1hl or a Surefire fury.

Thanks, you guys look like you know your stuff, so I look forward to your answers.
 

Imon

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Selfbuilt - in the review section.

Seems like Asr34 is more of a lover of "tactical" stuff.
Selfbuilt does really great, in-depth reviews but I think his reviews are geared more towards us flashaholics and less towards LEO or military.

As much as I'd hate to recommend watching youtube videos on flashlights (output, beam pattern, and throw is impossible to gauge on video) it might be the only way to actually compare one light to another.
 

Asr34

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I am more into the tactical applications of lights. The way I see it is, if you have a question about your car, ask a mechanic...your health, a doctor...flashlights, you guys on this forum.

Anyway, what I'm taking away from this post so far is that it depends, am I right? Let me phrase it like this...lumens is the measurement of the total amount of light produced at the source right? And I know that a lot depends on the reflective cone, but are there manufacturing specs to look for that would indicate the likely amount of projected light? Is candle power a unit of measurement when it's an led light source.

From what I understand, 2 lights can be 160 lumen, but not project the same amount of light? Also, I've heard that "splash back" on white surfaces isn't an issue up to 1000 lumens. Is that correct, because I'm looking at some 500 lumen lights, but I don't to f my night vision up during a room search?
 

reppans

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I can't imagine you'd have any "night vision" with 500 lumens indoors. I personally lose mine at ~10 lumens and usually use 0.3 and 3 lumens to maintain my night vision indoors and I do get blinding splash back if something light colored passes closely in front of the beam. Having said that, I think I do have great night vision since those a my most often used modes by far.

General rules for flood vs throw is that the larger the emitter and/or smaller the reflector, the floodier the light will be so a small emitter in a large head will be the throwiest light. Most manufacturers also spec the beam spill and spot angles so that can give you a sense of flood vs throw too.
 

TEEJ

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I am more into the tactical applications of lights. The way I see it is, if you have a question about your car, ask a mechanic...your health, a doctor...flashlights, you guys on this forum.

Anyway, what I'm taking away from this post so far is that it depends, am I right? Let me phrase it like this...lumens is the measurement of the total amount of light produced at the source right? And I know that a lot depends on the reflective cone, but are there manufacturing specs to look for that would indicate the likely amount of projected light? Is candle power a unit of measurement when it's an led light source.

From what I understand, 2 lights can be 160 lumen, but not project the same amount of light? Also, I've heard that "splash back" on white surfaces isn't an issue up to 1000 lumens. Is that correct, because I'm looking at some 500 lumen lights, but I don't to f my night vision up during a room search?

Lumens is the total amount of light being sent out of the flashlight.

Think of it as so many gallons per minute of flow out of a hose.

You can let the water pour out of the garden hose into a bucket at say 1 gallon per minute, or, put your thumb over the end of the hose, and squirt that gallon per minute into the bucket....its still a gallon per minute, total.

The throw of the light is measured in terms of cd...the same as the lux at one meter.


Generally, the higher the cd, the tighter your thumb is on that hose spray....for the same total flow rate/total lumens.



The cd is measured at the hot spot...the central brightest part of the beam. Surrounding the hot spot is a corona, a bright donut of slightly dimmer light than the hot spot. If light missed the reflector, so it never got focused, it just spills onto the ground, and, is called "the spill". :D




:D

So, lumens is the total flow of light. LUX is the light that bounces back so you can SEE the target. You can't see lumens, what you see is what they bounced off of, illuminating the target.

The brighter the target looks, the higher the lux on it.


The tight thumb spray might make a very small circle of light on the target, a small, tightly focused beam angle.


A giant fire hose might have an opening as large as your fist, and spray the water further than the teeny tight stream past your thumb on the garden hose. It has more gallons per minute to work with.


So, for the same beam angle, a light with more lumens will typically have a LARGER hot spot...and perhaps a larger corona too, more spill, etc.


For shooting in darker conditions, you typically need 1 - 2 lux on your target to aim/track well. Some people need more, and if you have no night vision at all (You burst into a dark warehouse from being outside all day in bright mid-day sunlight...)...you typically need a LOT more than that.



As for "Splash back"...that's just talking about the glare of your light bouncing back too brightly. The more dark adapted your vision, the easier that is to happen. The tighter your beam angle, the more likely that is to happen.


The tactical issues really depend on the context.


For example, for that warehouse, if you are bursting in and might be facing return fire, you need a light that goes OFF instantly...typically with a momentary on type switch...so it goes off when you let go, or just needs a single click, depending on what you're used to/can do under pressure....so you can turn off your bullet beacon.

If you burst in, and have a tight beam, you must quickly scan around the entire space as though you are looking through a paper towel tube...you only see a little dot of light at a time of what's out there.

If you have a floody beam, you can burst in and its like all the lights went on, and you see everything at once...including the positions of the potential targets/shooters, people running for cover, etc.

If you are standing next to a bunch of buddies, that floody light will also tend to show all those bad guys where your buddies are, etc. unless you are in front enough to not also light them up too, etc. (IE: You ALL pop and move if that's the case...)


The 1,000 L rule of thumb is meaningless in practice, as the range, the cd of the light, the reflectiveness of the background, your level of night adaptation, etc, will change all of that.


So if you storm the warehouse and its 1,000' to the back wall, your light needs a cd of ~ 100,000+ to get some useful targeting lux on targets.

(The square root of the range in meters = the cd needed to get one lux on the target)

So, indoors, under the above scenario, a 500 lumen light with 100k cd will barely put a small dim spot of light on your target. A 1,000 L light will definitely still not be too bright, and so forth.

If its not a warehouse, its a 10' x 10' room, sure, 100k cd is going to glare. (Its not the LUMENS that glare, its the cd/lux)

For example, an ordinary 75 watt light bulb in an small table lamp puts out about 1,200 lumens...with a very low cd.

Few people would say a small table lamp makes a room too bright...in fact, most rooms use a few lights so its not too dark, etc.


If bursting into the warehouse/room and some one hitting the light switch for a table lamp would incapacitate the entry team, ok, fine...its too bright....but that's not normally the case.


:D


Now, if you're asleep and its 3 am, and you turn on that same table lamp...yeah, it will seem very bright, and you might need a few seconds to adjust....and, the process of adjusting is degrading your night vision.

It takes a while for your vision to adjust in either direction, so, if doing a night sortie sort of thing...there is a RANGE of adjustment depending on where you are/what you're doing before hand.


Me, I prefer FLIR for all that...but, for flashlights, you choose the tools for the job...and sometimes you want more throw/less flood, and sometimes you want more flood/less throw.

:D
 
Last edited:

MatthewSB

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Feb 1, 2013
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It's impossible to truly understand how a light will work, for you, without trying it out.

... I'm looking at some 500 lumen lights, but I don't to f my night vision up during a room search?

I'd highly recommend the Fury Dual Mode for this. The first click is low mode, which will come on at 25 lumens which is just right for this light as it is very "floody". You can release the button, and a millisecond later click it again for the high mode, which is 500 lumens. The Fury's 500 lumens is way brighter than other companies' "500 lumens".

The P2X Fury Dual Mode really surprised me, between the 500 and 25 lumen modes it's been perfect for me.
 

Asr34

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Apr 19, 2013
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Wow. Thanks. That is a wealth of info, and was very enlightening (rim shot). Seriously though, this helps a ton.
 

BlueEagle

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For a weapons mounted light, Surefire is an obvious company to look at. You are also aware of Streamlight, but two lesser well known yet highly respected options you would be wise to at least check into are (1). Malkoff and (2). Elzetta. Be advised that when searching for a weapons mounted light, the recoil from the gun firing can cause the light to accidentally switch modes, which is why many tactical operators stick with lights which only have a single mode. As for comparing lights, there are all sorts of different criteria which can be used, but the first two criteria which come to mind are (1). lumens and (2). runtime. When comparing lumens, it is important to keep in mind that there is no one standard which everyone follows (this measurement can be taken at the emitter, giving higher values, or out the front, which gives lower values). Another important thing to be cognizant of is that lumens do not scale linearly, that is to say, doubling the number of lumens does not double the perceived brightness (you need roughly four times the number for that given the way the human eye perceives brightness). As for runtime, once again there is no absolute standard for determining this. Surefire measures the time until the flashlight drops to 50 lumens. Flashlight makers following ANSI standards, like Streamlight, define the runtime as the time until the flashlight dims to ten-percent of its original value. Malkoff gives the time until the flashlight drops out of regulation. Obviously all these different testing methodologies make it hard for someone to simply compare published specs on the internet and make informed judgements. Despite all the science involved, choosing the right flashlight for a particular task remains a bit of an art. --BlueEagle
 
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