Does a manufactures command of the English language influence your opinion of them?

rickypanecatyl

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When considering a new light from a manufacturer you haven't purchased from before, do gross spelling or grammar errors have an effect on your purchase?

When it comes to downright specs, I've found at the night markets here in Malaysia you can get just about any light that does anything for less than $30 USD. When I spend $200 for a light, it's not because it has more lux or lumens than a $30 version in the night market it's because I'm hoping for better reliability.
There's a common saying, "You get what you pay for" which isn't necessarily true; in fact there's a whole new niche business market capitalizing on that phrase – i.e. they offer the same **** poor product at 3X the price to lure in those that believe that phrase is always true.

At the same time, I know you can't make a quality 18650 light with 800 lumens and 30K lux for $30 so I'm definitely not going to buy THAT one. Honest reviews here from the average Joe help me take the leap of faith but I've found with not much to go on, I can be put off by poor English. Anyone think that's unfair?
 

jtr1962

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I take a somewhat different view of the entire thing:

1) Poor English probably means they're good engineers (i.e. communication skills are a big problem for lots of engineering types, even those whose native language is English).
2) You could hire a translator to fix any problems with 1), but then that means your product will cost more. Call me cheap but I'd rather pay $1 less for something with lousy instructions if it comes down to that.

There are times though when bad English really annoys me. One is obviously when a product costs a lot more than similar products. In this case, if I'm paying for quality, then I want quality everywhere, including in the instructions. Two is when something is fairly complex. You can usually figure out how to work a flashlight, but don't sell me a complex piece of software with incomplete instructions written mostly by Google translator. Some things just need clear, well-written instructions by their nature.

And yes, you're totally right about the new business model of capitalizing on people who think you always get what you pay for. It actually pains me seeing people who might pay $50 for a multimeter which is no more accurate, and has no more functions, than the ones I got at Harbor Freight for $3. Sometimes you get garbage when you pay a low price, other times you get something nearly as good as products costing ten times as much. There doesn't seem to be any reliable way to tell short of buying the product or reading reviews. Yes, sometimes if you have a good engineering background you know a quality product can't be made at a given price point, but the general public doesn't possess that type of knowledge.
 

N8N

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I have to say that a poor command of English annoys the heck out of me, which is awful prejudiced of me as my command of languages other than English ranges from rudimentary to nonexistent. But it does give a negative first impression.

And jtr1962, you can pay a lot more than $50 for a multimeter... and I prefer my Flukes and my Simpson 260 :) Although for basic work sometimes a $3 HF meter is more convenient being much smaller and lighter!
 

BenChiew

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Does a manufactures command of the English language influence your opinion of t

A world class company should get the instructions translated properly. German companies do not send out their products with half baked English instructions. It is a matter of effort.

And even in mainland China, English translations are available. So no excuses there.
 

Poppy

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When considering a new light from a manufacturer you haven't purchased from before, do gross spelling or grammar errors have an effect on your purchase?

<SNIP>
I'm not sure... I guess it depends. IT does bother me, somewhat. The two main impressions I get:
1. they are a small start up company, and can't afford to pay someone to adequately translate or commuincate in English for them.
2. they take no pride in their communicative skills, and that makes me question "how much pride do they take in their work?"

I also question "what kind of customer support will I get if I need it?"
 

gadget_lover

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I believe that the lack of proper documentation is a sign of low or unpredictable quality. My reasoning is simple...

You take the time to include a terrible English translation. You had someone write it and did not think to find a competent person to do the work, and did not implement any quality control to ensure that it was properly done. It's likely that the same level of follow-through was applied to the manufacturing.

This does not mean that the flashlight is bad, just that it's quality is more likely to be unpredictable.

This is the age of the Internet, for goodness sakes. You can get people to critique your owner's manual for free on just about any forum.

Daniel
 

inetdog

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One place where I really appreciate poor use of English is in emails from Nigerian businessmen, government officials, or widows who want to give me money.
When I see product instructions with really poor English, I just can't help associating them with that, unjustified though it may be.
 

rickypanecatyl

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JTR you make a good point about a.) engineers often being poor communicators and b.) if they did a good job, not wanting to pay more for a light because they needed to translate their web site and instructions.

But as others have said, I think it makes me tend to think that they may have poor quality control skills. I was just on Thrunites site and got a kick out of their "20% even more brighter" adds. I was checking out the scorpion to see if there were any upgrades. I had 2 scorpions go thru 3 lens and it seems many others had cracked lens - even on arrival with the turbo head.
My thought was I didn't want to judge them for their poor English, but my hope was that they had fixed the lens problem. However since it didn't seem they cared enough to fine tune their web site, I had to assume they hadn't fine tuned their old light.
 

jtr1962

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Just to be sure, I'm talking here mainly about low-priced items. I'm more than willing to tolerate lousy instructions if something is inexpensive compared to similar items. That tolerance goes down as the price goes up. Same thing with quality. I'm not complaining if a $5 light breaks. I knew I was taking that chance going in. On the other hand, if I pay $50 or $100 for a light, it better not break, ever.
 

flashfan

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As a general rule, spelling and grammatical errors don't bother me, and would not affect a decision to purchase. However, I do expect known, established companies to be more professional and accurate than small, unknown firms.

I think foreign English is more entertaining than anything else. Downright hysterical sometimes. Then again, it also depends on the product. If it is something that is very technical and/or hazardous in nature, the instructions better be clear, concise and understandable.
 

Diesel_Bomber

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Spelling and grammar matters to me, and would probably be a deal breaker with any product I was choosing to purchase. If a company is marketing a product to an English language market, their packaging and instructions dang well better be in decent English.

Packaging is often the first impression a person gets of a product and is a pretty powerful advertising tool. There's a reason it's a multi-billion dollar industry - it works. If a company isn't even willing to make sure the packaging is in good order, I have zero confidence that the product is too.

I'm sure I'm wrong in some cases, and all of this goes out the window when it comes to products obviously marketed to a different market and sold here in the USA with English sub script.
 

Lou Minescence

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One place where I really appreciate poor use of English is in emails from Nigerian businessmen, government officials, or widows who want to give me money.
When I see product instructions with really poor English, I just can't help associating them with that, unjustified though it may be.

Same here. My " it's a scam " sense is turned on. Then I read the content of the message to figure if it is some creep who wrote what I am reading or just someone who does not speak English as a first language. I figure flashlight non English speaking companies can hire someone who speaks English well to communicate their products, but that costs money. In business you need to wear many hats, so why pay someone with polished English skills to correspond when you can do it yourself.
 

PhotonWrangler

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This is an interesting thread. From my own personal experience, some of the best engineers I've known are some of the worst spellers. I don't know if this is a left brain vs right brain thing. On the other hand, when I see documentation for a product that has consistently bad grammar and sometimes completely unintelligible sentences, I wonder about the quality of support I would receive if I needed it. Hiring a proofreader is absolutely necessary for a product that will be sold internationally, and if they're skimping on that step, whet else are they skimping on?
 

stanmog

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rickypanecatyl, the way you misspelled "manufacturer's" makes me wonder if English is not your first language, and hence your question.
 

jabe1

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rickypanecatyl, the way you misspelled "manufacturer's" makes me wonder if English is not your first language, and hence your question.

I just scanned this whole thread to see if anyone else noticed...

I agree, many engineers can't spell worth a lick, but they can use spellcheck and proofreaders.

Pisspoor communication can relate to the same attitude in business; inattention to detail. A translation error in usage or semantics is one thing, but spelling and basic grammar should be correct.
 

gadget_lover

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I've worked with hundreds of engineers who held various degrees. I'm always confounded by the lack of skill in the area of written communications. You can't get a degree without writing hundreds of papers. I can't understand why a professor would give a passing grade if the student can't express themselves. I've known people with Masters degrees that could not write an understandable paragraph even with the help of spell check and grammar assistance.

I have a theory that many software engineers came to the field because they are socially inept and therefore poor communicators. It's more comfortable to work with machines than it is to interact with people. We were not geeks because we programmed; we were programmers because we were geeks. :)

A good engineer recognizes his/her shortcomings and makes up for them. That's why there is a specialty known as a "technical writer" who writes specifications and documentation. A good businessman should have the same awareness of his/her shortcomings.

Daniel
 

jtr1962

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I've worked with hundreds of engineers who held various degrees. I'm always confounded by the lack of skill in the area of written communications. You can't get a degree without writing hundreds of papers. I can't understand why a professor would give a passing grade if the student can't express themselves. I've known people with Masters degrees that could not write an understandable paragraph even with the help of spell check and grammar assistance.
I'd say the problem is twofold. Besides the lack of communications skills you mentioned, far too many engineers, and for that matter other people with lots of technical expertise, assume everyone else is at their level. Yes, I'm guilty as charged. I've had conversations with laypeople where they might ask me a simple question, and within 2 minutes I see their eyes glaze over as I'm explaining things using technical terms which are old hat to me, but might as well be a foreign language to them. One of my favorites was when a customer wanted something which gave 100 watts of light. I assumed they might 100 watts of light energy, so I posited various solutions, including about 500 watts of metal halide, 400 watts of LED, etc. I also started going into luminous efficacy of the emitted spectra, CCT, and CRI. In the end just wanted to replace a 100 watt light bulb, but being an engineer if someone says 100 watts of light, I assume they mean 100 watts of emitted light, not 100 watts input. This is but one example of epic fail in the way engineers communicate with everyone else.

I have a theory that many software engineers came to the field because they are socially inept and therefore poor communicators. It's more comfortable to work with machines than it is to interact with people. We were not geeks because we programmed; we were programmers because we were geeks. :)
Not a software engineer, but probably guilty as charged. I recall some mandatory parties from back in my freshman year where I ended up being a wallflower the entire time, not saying one word to anyone there, and then leaving wondering what the point of the entire thing was. Yes, I've made plenty of friends before, but being in social settings with 100% total strangers is and will always remain very awkward for me. I imagine software engineers are even worse in that regard. The amazing part is a lot of these people actually go on to get married and raise families. How they meet people and nurture that kind of relationship boggles my mind because it's something I never was able to do. You have to "sell yourself" in a manner of speaking to do that. A lot of engineering types couldn't sell beer on a troop ship, that's how bad they are, including me.

A good engineer recognizes his/her shortcomings and makes up for them. That's why there is a specialty known as a "technical writer" who writes specifications and documentation. A good businessman should have the same awareness of his/her shortcomings.
Assuming you have the staff that's true. Many of these online companies consist only of the engineer, and maybe a small amount of support staff (i.e. assembly workers, shipping clerks, perhaps someone to handle orders). There's often no money to hire someone to improve communication. I've occasionally dealt with vendors on Alibaba. More often than not, I get communications from their staff asking me a question which are unintelligible. Here's a perfect example (I left out the person's name):

i am **** ****, you buy our led displays throught aliexpress store, I saw you confirmed order delivered. Glad to know you have got the item. Hope you will like it. now, have a question need contaction with you , the" one digit 7 segment 0.32 inch yellow color led numeric display, led digital display, 7-segment led display" and green product, these product's SPEC have wrong, havn't material, so can't make to you , i am sorry for that ,but we have other same product, please see the email file, if it is usefully for you.please tell me that is ok? please make sure to me, i wait you.

Note that they didn't even send me anything, and yet they said I confirmed "order delivered". Even more scary is that it appears this person's job is solely to communicate with customers.
 

LEDAdd1ct

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My two cents:

1) I feel lucky that I was born in a country where the dominant language is the de facto language of world commerce. Lucky me!

2) Any person from countries where the majority of these lights are made has a far better command of English than I have of their native tongue.

3) Poorly written documentation is not a deal breaker for me, but it does make me hesitate.

4) I find it hard to believe they cannot pay a poor college student fluent in both languages a little cash on the side to write proper English, German, Spanish, French, etc. in their user manuals.

5) I rest on the evaluations of others, including full length reviews and even short write-ups, to guide me.

Here's my two cents:

Link
 

Paladin

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If their customer service people speak "English as a second language", I call my credit card company and have the disputed goods/service refunded. Life is too short to deal with Slum Dog Millionaire extras. Paladin
 

croarcher

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Does a manufactures command of the English language influence your opinion of t

And what about your "second language" :)
 
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