One M1-Abrams Tank with unlimited amo vs King Edward I of England. Who wins?

ledmitter_nli · May 7, 2013

The Belligerents:

One M1-Abrams Tank
Crew 4 (commander, gunner, loader, driver)
Unlimited ammunition (hypothetically on-board).
Unlimited fuel (hypothetically on-board).

vs.

King Edward I of England's entire army.
15,000 men
2,500 cavalry
12,500 infantry

Who wins?

Stress_Test · May 7, 2013

Unless the tank crew also has unlimited food on board, and never sleeps, then the Brits win. (heck even with no sleep and unlimited food, the Brits would probably win)

It may be slaughter at first but eventually the old army will figure out a way to exploit the weaknesses of the tank. Just because a group of people are from another era doesn't mean they're stupid.

Flying Turtle · May 7, 2013

My money's on the Brits, too. Just lure the tank into a pit.

Geoff

TEEJ · May 7, 2013

I don't really think anyone would win per se, as there's no given objective for the war. With no objective to accomplish, even if one side kills the other, nothing is accomplished.

Also - Edwards army is pretty much in England...I'm not sure how the tank would get there to do anyone any damage anyway....and, unless the army gets in boats, crosses the Atlantic, or at LEAST the channel (If we allow a tank to be there?)...So, they are either not threatened by the tank, or, can slip away where the tank can't follow....removing the threat.

ledmitter_nli · May 7, 2013

Stress_Test said:
Unless the tank crew also has unlimited food on board, and never sleeps, then the Brits win. (heck even with no sleep and unlimited food, the Brits would probably win)

It may be slaughter at first but eventually the old army will figure out a way to exploit the weaknesses of the tank. Just because a group of people are from another era doesn't mean they're stupid.

Wouldn't the sight and sound of a .50 cal machine gun shredding infantry from 500 yards appear (alien) enough to destroy a primitive army's will to fight?

ledmitter_nli · May 7, 2013

TEEJ said:
I don't really think anyone would win per se, as there's no given objective for the war. With no objective to accomplish, even if one side kills the other, nothing is accomplished.

Also - Edwards army is pretty much in England...I'm not sure how the tank would get there to do anyone any damage anyway....and, unless the army gets in boats, crosses the Atlantic, or at LEAST the channel (If we allow a tank to be there?)...So, they are either not threatened by the tank, or, can slip away where the tank can't follow....removing the threat.

Objective is last man standing

Also, lets say the Tank was in Falkirk.

thedoc007 · May 7, 2013

The tank wouldn't stand a chance...there is no substitute for numbers. Look up the Iran-Iraq war. Iraq had tanks, Iran had foot soldiers and children who were willing to die to help defeat the Iraqis. The Iraqis took some territory initially, but within a couple years, the Iranians had won all of the territory back. The next 6 years, despite a MASSIVE technological disadvantage, Iran was on the offensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War

880arm · May 7, 2013

ledmitter_nli said:
Wouldn't the sight and sound of a .50 cal machine gun shredding infantry from 500 yards appear (alien) enough to destroy a primitive army's will to fight?

It definitely would for at least the short term. However, if the Abrams remained a threat to them, they would take it out in time.

As proof of my point, see the movie Independence Day :twothumbs

TEEJ · May 8, 2013

ledmitter_nli said:
Objective is last man standing

Also, lets say the Tank was in Falkirk.

You can't make up an objective that simply means they want each other dead. They need to have a reason to fight, to be a real scenario. Defense of homes, avenge for cheating in a soccer game, etc.

Chauncey Gardiner · May 8, 2013

TEEJ said:
You can't make up an objective that simply means they want each other dead. They need to have a reason to fight, to be a real scenario. Defense of homes, avenge for cheating in a soccer game, etc.

I disagree. Men only need a reason to keep fighting. Getting them to start, is usually pretty easy.

Of course, there's always this:

"What is best in life: Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!"

~ Chance

Ken_McE · May 12, 2013

Tanks like open ground. Medieval England would have been forested. Tanks like to have scouts, infantry support, a maintenance train. These guys wouldn't have any. In WW II tanks averaged, what, maybe 35 miles between breakdowns? If they lose a drive wheel or a track they turn into a big loud pillbox.

Trying to sleep in a tank would be hell. If they come out, all the kings men will be there to say "hi". If they stay in they won't get much sleep. After three or four days without sleep they're going to be shooting at shadows, making stupid mistakes. Four men up against an army can't afford any mistakes.

If Edward were patient and disciplined he'd win. All he'd have to do is shadow them until they broke down or came out. The tank could control the area immediately around where it sat, but it could not hold any ground once it left.

One thing I haven't worked out is the what would an uneducated, ignorant, but intelligent & capable third worlder think it was? If they felt it was a dragon or demon they might waste a lot of time with prayers and holy water, or offering it sheep or something.

TEEJ · May 12, 2013

Ken_McE said:
Tanks like open ground. Medieval England would have been forested. Tanks like to have scouts, infantry support, a maintenance train. These guys wouldn't have any. In WW II tanks averaged, what, maybe 35 miles between breakdowns? If they lose a drive wheel or a track they turn into a big loud pillbox.

Trying to sleep in a tank would be hell. If they come out, all the kings men will be there to say "hi". If they stay in they won't get much sleep. After three or four days without sleep they're going to be shooting at shadows, making stupid mistakes. Four men up against an army can't afford any mistakes.

If Edward were patient and disciplined he'd win. All he'd have to do is shadow them until they broke down or came out. The tank could control the area immediately around where it sat, but it could not hold any ground once it left.

One thing I haven't worked out is the what would an uneducated, ignorant, but intelligent & capable third worlder think it was? If they felt it was a dragon or demon they might waste a lot of time with prayers and holy water, or offering it sheep or something.

I do think the food issue would potentially come into play, as the tank has unlimited ammo and fuel, but no food or water for the crew.

After a few days of dehydration, the tank crew would be a bit thirsty, and after a week or two, perhaps dead anyway if the medieval army could keep them bogged down.

Its possible with the unlimited fuel/ammo, that they could make their way to a water source, etc, maybe even steal food/forage, etc....afterall, they would have the speed to outflank a medieval army, and run for daylight if things got too hot.

An army of that era should have been able to see how it climbed obstacles, etc, and probably started to dig trenches/tank traps to try to get it stuck.

ledmitter_nli · May 12, 2013

We could say there's a weeks worth of water and food rations in the tank. Isn't that standard military operating procedure to have *some* supplies on-board? Several bottles of water at the minimum. The body can go weeks without food.

What if the tank fired its main gun through the castle gate from the outset and moved inside sending its terrified volcano worshiper inhabitants and army onto the field with no hope for re-supply? The sheer amount of terror coming from the "beast" would send them scurrying off that sad little overcast island.

Regarding digging trenches - if the campaign was situated in Falkirk - that's a huge field. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

The tank would persevere.

jtr1962 · May 12, 2013

Use nuclear-tipped artillery and the tank wins hands down in a matter of hours. In fact, after one shot I think the entire army would surrender. Conventional ammo, probably the brits win but it would be a war of attrition. Eventually the tank crew will tire or make a mistake, and the tank will be disabled. I wonder if a trebuchet would be effective against a tank?

The larger problem though is even if the tank "wins", you still need massive numbers of ground troops for control (the old adage conquest is easy, control is not).

ledmitter_nli · May 12, 2013

Hehe ... going nuclear is obscenely beyond the scope of fairness

There is one realistic way (besides digging huge holes) that the English could easily defeat the tank.

Surprised nobody has thought of it yet.

Aren't they doing this in gaza?

dledmo · May 12, 2013

Does the tank come with an unlimited portapotty and shower? How long could a crew stay completely enclosed?

ledmitter_nli · May 12, 2013

It's not like they can't drive somewhere, with someone manning a .50 cal machine gun while another is taking a whiz.

nbp · May 12, 2013

Numbers will win.

You swarm a tank with thousands of people smashing at viewfinders and antennae with their weapons, jamming objects into the gun barrels and tracks and similar tactics, the tank will be incapacitated in relatively short order. There's just only so much you can do from inside when the vehicle is just completely covered in people and they don't stop coming.

StarHalo · May 12, 2013

I'm not seeing any convincing arguments as to what the army would do to harm the tank, aside from the possibility of a hole in the ground, which they wouldn't be able to assemble for. Even if you cheated and gave the Brits a civil war era cannon and fired it at point blank range, nothing would happen..

Tana · May 12, 2013

Eventually the tank will wear down, have a malfunction and lose... Throughout human history is shown that quality only overwhelms quantity at the beginning, with time it evens out and tilts to quantity side... Sure, the open area where modern tank can just move all the time and shoot at the same time at incredible rate of speed compared to those old times is fascinating but - everything wears down...

As for IEDs (road bombs)... I believe they used black powder at that time for both explosions and ammo so a POOF from that kind of IED would just shake the tank a little... I've seen few videos where IED exploded underneath the Abrams, shook it a little and they continued further on... it will do SOME damage, maybe lots of IEDs in that way would eventually wear the track to slip off and STOP the tank (where the swarm of people can just rush from all sides, get on it, find a hole and throw anything burning inside - loss of oxygen will do the rest)...

A old movie to watch with similar thematic is The Final Countdown, especially if you like airplanes...

One M1-Abrams Tank with unlimited amo vs King Edward I of England. Who wins?

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