Question about flashlight value

vladax · May 11, 2013

Hi. I'm a flashlight fan. I have many different lights. Now I have decided to buy a new one. After reading many reviews I have decided for EagleTac G25C2-II.

Now I have to consider the last question: Does it worth the money?

Follow the facts:
On Ebay the light is sold for $112 incl. shipping + $35 for diffusers.

But for the same price I can have five lights made-in-China with the same emitter bin, the same LED and nearly the same brightness:
http://dx.com/p/c8-cree-xm-l-u2-800-1000lm-5-mode-white-flashlight-black-1-x-18650-202261

So where is the difference? $112 for EagleTac compared to $21 for noname light from China:

The China light can have PWM instead of current driven LED on EagleTec.
The China light will have less durable body.
The China light could have shorter runtime (less effective electronics).

What more? Are these the only differences? Then back to my question: Is the EagleTac so better to justify 5x higher price?
If I will choose to go the "Chinese way" I can have for the same price each year a new light with the newest LED for the next 5 years.

About the price of the diffuser – it is cheaper to buy another China light and scratch the lens with abrasive paper than buying diffusers for EagleTac.

Or another example:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=13800+Lumen&_sop=15
12x CREE T6 LED and it is still cheaper than the EagleTac.

So maybe you can help me answer the initial question:

Does the EagleTac worth the money?

ico · May 11, 2013

You can really only know the difference of a quality light and a china one after holding or owning both. If your already familiar with lights, i guess the best wat is for you to tell us what you need the light for so we can suggest what really applies to you.

If you're only starting with the neq high end lights, starting small is better. Most starters always chooses the light with the "most powerful" output and the likes. But when they start to really use it, they see that even 50lumens is already enough(for general lighting inside the house etc etc.) the 1000lumen output they were drooling about only fascinates a few minutes at a time. So it really depends on what you need the light from for some to know better.

You can start with china but high quality lights like eagletac, fenix, 4sevens, etc etc and maybe try those smaller lights in the 30-50 dollar range so its cheaper than a 100 dollar light and is much better than a $20 china light

jhc37013 · May 11, 2013

vladax said:
Hi. I'm a flashlight fan. I have many different lights. Now I have decided to buy a new one. After reading many reviews I have decided for EagleTac G25C2-II.

Now I have to consider the last question: Does it worth the money?

Follow the facts:
On Ebay the light is sold for $112 incl. shipping + $35 for diffusers.

But for the same price I can have five lights made-in-China with the same emitter bin, the same LED and nearly the same brightness:

So where is the difference? $112 for EagleTac compared to $21 for noname light from China:

The China light can have PWM instead of current driven LED on EagleTec.

The China light will have less durable body.

The China light could have shorter runtime (less effective electronics).

What more? Are these the only differences? Then back to my question: Is the EagleTac so better to justify 5x higher price?
If I will choose to go the "Chinese way" I can have for the same price each year a new light with the newest LED for the next 5 years.

About the price of the diffuser – it is cheaper to buy another China light and scratch the lens with abrasive paper than buying diffusers for EagleTac.

So maybe you can help me answer the initial question:

Does the EagleTac worth the money?

I don't understand, you clearly answered your own question and there is many many threads on the topics on "flashlight worth the money" just use the CPF search box.

FlashKat · May 11, 2013

The cheaper lights are nice to buy for cheap thrills!!!
I use to buy the cheap lights, but I soon found out that they were not reliable enough for daily use when you really need them to function.
If you need a reliable light, then I highly recommend buying the better brands.

Ishango · May 11, 2013

FlashKat said:
The cheaper lights are nice to buy for cheap thrills!!!
I use to buy the cheap lights, but I soon found out that they were not reliable enough for daily use when you really need them to function.
If you need a reliable light, then I highly recommend buying the better brands.

I too started this hobby with buying and trying budget lights. I soon found out that the quality of these lights is usually low (with only a few positive exceptions).

Most of the cheap lights either failed sooner or later or even arrived in a bad shape (some DOA even). Or they just stopped working when you need them. Then there's a lot to say about tints and actual output. I have gotten rid of most cheap lights and only buy high quality lights now, except for a few loaner lights (eg. see Sipik SK68 clones or Xeno E03).

Buying a new light with latest LED every year? I've got a few older lights that still outshine most of the latest cheap lights.

I don't own the Eagletac you specified, but I do own a few other Eagletac lights and they belong to my most favorite lights.

Derek Dean · May 12, 2013

Howdy viadax, and welcome to CPF

.
Obviously, we get this question a LOT, and it's easy to understand why. Most people will NEVER understand how I could possibly pay $100 for a flashlight. However, it's just like anything else. We often like to use cars as an example. Yes, a Toyota or Ford will get you there, but if you've got the cash, a Lamborghini just might get you there in more style.

Actually, the quality of some of the Chinese lights has come up in recent years, making the decision a bit more difficult, however, their quality control can still be a bit spotty, meaning you're chances are typically greater for receiving a light with issues.

I always recommend that new members hold off buying any lights for a few weeks. Spend some time really reading this forum, especially the review area, and slowly you'll begin to see patterns. It's especially important to begin to consider what you are looking for in a light. What is your "need". Is it for work, is it for EDC (every day carry), or is it for walking the dog?

Most of us find that we prefer to have different lights for different needs. For instance, I have one small AAA light on my keyring. It has taken my quite a few years to find one that I like that can actually survive the day to abuse that a keyring light can typically expect to receive. I don't actually use it very often, but when I need it, I need it to work. Then I have 3 lights for work, one in my bag, one in my pants pocket, and one in my front shirt pocket (I work at night). They get used a LOT. Then I've got a light for my bicycle for riding home at night from work, and of course i have several larger "around the house" lights for general high-power, long runtime applications.

My point is, you might consider whether this first light you buy is going to be part of a "system" of lights, and if so, what place will it fill? Do you need it to start in high mode all the time, or would you prefer to have it start in low mode all the time, or, do you want the flexibility to be able to start in any mode you want, low, medium, OR high? Do you need mode memory? Does it need to be water resistant? If you're going to be using it outside you might consider a neutral tinted LED light, as it tends to give a more pleasing rendition of browns and greens. Do you plan on using this for close range work, or do you need to be able to spot things far away? Anyway, lots of things to consider BEFORE you begin spending that hard earned cash.

After having been on this forum for a few years, I can tell you that I've seen many folks come on here and start buying LOTS of inexpensive, cheaper lights. I understand that, but, in reality, I've found that it's better to spend the time researching for exactly the right light, with exactly the features you want. Then find a good dealer with a good return policy and purchase that ONE light. Then play with it, use it, examine how it feels in your hand and in your pocket. If it works for you, great. Otherwise, return it or sell it in the Marketplace and try another light.

Anyway, that's enough. Good luck, and have fun!

BenChiew · May 12, 2013

It also depends on how much you rely on the light when needed. If you are going for a night hike where you depended on the light to get you in and out, then a tried and tested brand would give you a higher chance. This is because a lot of r&d have gone into making sure it holds up to the elements and will deliver during a critical moment.
Such as required by law enforcement, military and emergency services.

I guess if you need a light to get you to the toilet, you can afford for it to fail and not be a problem.

This is in no way saying a more expensive one will not fail, but the chances is greatly reduced.

vladax · May 13, 2013

OK, guys, thank you very much for the opinions. You helped me with my decision to buy the quality light.

JargonGR · May 14, 2013

As far as I am concerned and since I am new to flashlights I also fell into the temptation of the really cheap lights but within a month I changed my mind. I was intrigued by the flashlight hobby because of my growing collection of lithium & NiMh batteries used everywhere in the house and in my kids toys. As I invested in quality batteries, a hobby charger, a Maha, cradles, cables etc etc it suddenly became obvious that upon buying a new LED flashlight I was ready for "prime" time since all the rest were in place. So it began.

I first got an Ultrafire C8 ($13 - 3 months ago) and was impressed by the output since I didn't know more. Soon I was looking for a gazillion Lumens in my hand and fortunately I ended up with a Blackshadow terminator. It is not a TM26 (which I now regret not buying instead) but it certainly has this quality level and feel that made me turn around and only start looking at good brands or "sudden stars" based on reading and user reviews/opinions. I then got a Nitecore EA4 XM-L2 and realized what an "interface" is compared to the plain lights so one more Nitecore EA1 is coming and here I am not being interested at all on the cheap lights except for fun or for giving to my kids (NiMh batteries only for them).

Finally, when I ventured to the world of Bicycle lights I also realized after studying that although flashlights and cheap lights might do the job fine if you are "just in need" of a light for the occasional ride in the city or normal terrain, nothing beats the really good specialized lights when it comes to serious bike lighting and that is why there is a market for them and people pay good money to get them.

After all the research (still), and after getting about 5-6 "#whatever#Fires#" I am only looking at top manufacturers now and decided to buy less but good ones.

JCD · May 14, 2013

JargonGR said:
Finally, when I ventured to the world of Bicycle lights I also realized after studying that although flashlights and cheap lights might do the job fine if you are "just in need" of a light for the occasional ride in the city or normal terrain, nothing beats the really good specialized lights when it comes to serious bike lighting and that is why there is a market for them and people pay good money to get them.

The best "specialized" bike lights tend to be designed for generator hubs/bottle generators, and also tend to be marketed to Europeans. The bike lights marketed to Americans are typically no better than, and often not as good as, quality flashlights, though they are often much more expensive than their flashlight equivalents. Using easily modifiable flashlights, such as P60 hosts, also allows cyclists to optimize the beam profile for their own riding speeds and environments fairly inexpensively, which is far better than the one shape fits all approach to beam profiles that bike light manufacturers take.

JargonGR · May 14, 2013

Certainly, when one wants to get into DIY, yet gain serious flexibility as you say with P60 hosts. I was just talking about convenience and out of the box solutions. For example there is Exposure a bike light manufacturer that allows full programability through a PC of the light depending on the ride. (www.exposurelights.com. Are they expensive? Sure as hell? Is there anything else out with such features for those who just want them and want to spend no time searching? Not.

I am not into night rides on dangerous mountains so I went ahead a got a cheap light with just a floody bem. Trustfire D009 which I use with a quality custom made battery pack (the one that it came with and its charger was well, the usual chinese). I also got a mounting camera base and will test my Blackshadow Terminator as well as a Fenix TK75 I intend to buy.

Finally you have the tail lights which are the most important as far as increasing your visibility to other drivers is concerned and this is not a flashlight job although I am waiting for both a Red Led flashlight and several Red filters to test.

Most of my conclusions come from the specialized bike lighting fora and the fact that if you ask any serious rider (dangerous night rides) none is using a flashlight. DIY bike lights (some amazing ones too) yes but just flashlights they seem to be considered a compromise. Truth is that if you want a vehicle light you need different beam profile (both flood AND throw), switches, high thermal tolerance and time on High output and most certainly much bigger battery packs. Just a few minutes output on high is nothing to write home but I am not sure how the top specialized bike lights handle this issue since almost none clearly states the details. I will certainly report my findings as I dig deeper.

JCD · May 14, 2013

JargonGR said:
Certainly, when one wants to get into DIY, yet gain serious flexibility as you say with P60 hosts. I was just talking about convenience and out of the box solutions. For example there is Exposure a bike light manufacturer that allows full programability through a PC of the light depending on the ride. (www.exposurelights.com. Are they expensive? Sure as hell? Is there anything else out with such features for those who just want them and want to spend no time searching? Not.

I am not into night rides on dangerous mountains so I went ahead a got a cheap light with just a floody bem. Trustfire D009 which I use with a quality custom made battery pack (the one that it came with and its charger was well, the usual chinese). I also got a mounting camera base and will test my Blackshadow Terminator as well as a Fenix TK75 I intend to buy.

Finally you have the tail lights which are the most important as far as increasing your visibility to other drivers is concerned and this is not a flashlight job although I am waiting for both a Red Led flashlight and several Red filters to test.

Most of my conclusions come from the specialized bike lighting fora and the fact that if you ask any serious rider (dangerous night rides) none is using a flashlight. DIY bike lights (some amazing ones too) yes but just flashlights they seem to be considered a compromise. Truth is that if you want a vehicle light you need different beam profile (both flood AND throw), switches, high thermal tolerance and time on High output and most certainly much bigger battery packs. Just a few minutes output on high is nothing to write home but I am not sure how the top specialized bike lights handle this issue since almost none clearly states the details. I will certainly report my findings as I dig deeper.

I'm a year-round, car-free bicycle commuter, and would consider myself a serious rider. I spend MANY hours pedaling at night. I've tried purpose built bike lights, and have found them seriously lacking. Currently, I use a single stock, i.e., straight out of the box, Surefire C3 (or 9P, if I happen to grab it instead), because I haven't found anything that works as well at the speeds at which I ride. It's not as bright as most high end bike lights, but brightness isn't nearly as important as the right beam profile. OTOH, brightness is an easy spec for marketing departments to advertise to naïve and/or gullible consumers, so that's where the focus is.

One of the models I checked out at the ExposureLights Web site, for example, adjust brightness with speed. It isn't brightness that needs to be adjusted with speed; it's beam shape. The faster one rides, the more throw (and less spill) they need. The slower they ride, the more flood/spill (and less throw) they need. A light well suited for riding at 10 mph will be poorly suited for riding at 20 mph, and vice versa. Brightness should be adjusted with ambient light levels, not speed. One does not need less light at low speeds; one needs a wider beam.

If one has a suitable mount, a flashlight with a suitable red emitter will indeed work as well, if not better, than most bike-specific taillight. I've tried many, but have yet to find a well designed bike taillight. Some are better than others, of course. As is the case with so many other bicycle accessories (marketed to US riders), engineering takes a backseat to marketing when it comes to bike lights. It is easy to find superior, cheaper solutions using flashlights than by using purpose built bike lights off the shelf, at least in the US.

127.0.0.1 · May 14, 2013

drop a cheap light just once

then you'll know

JargonGR · May 14, 2013

Well JCD, it would indeed be great if there was an auto focus mechanism working through sensors but I don't think it could be cheap. Regarding the exposure light, you have to consider that it is targeted to Mountain rides and not straight street riding. Those riders want both throw and flood (trees passing by) while they carry a second strong light on their helmets to throw light where their head turns.
Nonetheless, we are getting off-topic and I am not even any hard core rider to begin with so maybe another thread on the matter would be more suited.

The point to ponder here regarding value is that unless money is no object one has to define a cost/performance ratio and take it from there.

JCD · May 14, 2013

JargonGR said:
Well JCD, it would indeed be great if there was an auto focus mechanism working through sensors but I don't think it could be cheap.

No, it wouldn't be cheap to provided automatic beam profile adjustment. That's why the best approach is to buy a light that provides an optimal beam at a rider's typical cruising speeds. Automatic brightness adjustment is certainly no substitute.

JargonGR said:
Those riders want both throw and flood (trees passing by) …

Yes, but they rarely need lots of flood and lots of throw simultaneously. They need lots of flood because their speed is low for much of their rides. They also need sufficient throw for higher speed descents. Two lights, one for low speed, one for high speed, used one or two at a time would meet those needs nicely. Street riders with similar speed variance would have similar beam requirements, and would also benefit from two complementary lights. Most street riders don't have such high variance of speed, though.

JargonGR said:
The point to ponder here regarding value is that unless money is no object one has to define a cost/performance ratio and take it from there.

Agreed. Of course, flashlights easily beat purpose built bike lights (at least the ones marketed in the US) with respect to cost/performance.

Racer · May 14, 2013

EagleTac is also a Chinese made light? It doesn't matter to me where something is made, but I do like to keep it straight

Jolin Wang · May 15, 2013

you often got what you paid for. Just buy the one you really need.

270winchester · May 15, 2013

Racer said:
EagleTac is also a Chinese made light? It doesn't matter to me where something is made, but I do like to keep it straight

Someone had to notice this point.

lumenjedi1 · May 20, 2013

You do get what you pay for I should know owning a nitecore tm26 great light sturdy reliable great run time compared to some of cheaper lights I've owned in past you can tell just by the solid feel

TEEJ · May 20, 2013

It comes down to its purpose.

If its just to turn on/off and go "oooohhhh", it really doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things if it doesn't work, you'll survive.

If its to explore a cave, and if it doesn't work, you need to learn how to live as a blind caveman, etc...

If its just to walk the dog...if there's enough light to get home/you know where you are, etc, you'd probably make it, if you are on dark tree canopied trails with rocky terrain, you might turn an ankle/trip and give yourself a concussion/lobotomy etc. (Like my ex-Bro-in-law did...)

So, as mentioned, its not just Chinese vs the world, its quality (Some of which IS Chinese) and appropriateness to its purpose.

If you have sufficient additional lights WITH YOU, you can MORE easily afford to have them be less reliable...as you can keep swapping to one that still works....albeit the NUMBER of additional lights might be problematic if lighting could be considered mission critical.

Normally:

1 = 0

2 = 1

Cheap Lights:

1 = 0

2 = 0

3 = 0

4 = 0

5 = 0.5

and so forth.

Question about flashlight value

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