End of the Car of the Future

Howdy EVeryone -

For those who view EV drivers as an impediment to their god-given right to burn fossil fuels - tomorrow is a GREAT day, just brimming with possibilities!

For those who feel that we seriously need to rethink our fossil fuel consumption practices, then tomorrow symbolizes a tragic loss.

After 2pm tomorrow, there is no way that I can legally keep my EV1. GM leased them only – never sold. As each car comes off of lease, there is no way to extend the lease or purchase the car. Yes, I knew this going in, but it doesn't mean that I have to be happy about it. As terrible as GM wants us to think these cars are, they have already shipped 300 of them to NY to buy themselves clean air credits in that state. Yup, they bought their credits here in CA, and then with the same cars (obviously no longer keeping OUR air clean) they are getting similar credits in NY.

I know that I haven't discussed this stuff publicly here for quite some time. There are many reasons for that. But rest assured that EV "stuff" is still what I spend most of my energy and time on. I have some new and exciting answers to some of the old and tired questions, if anybody is inclined to keep asking them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Here is a good place to start if you want to catch up on your EV reading: Link

And if you haven't visited my site in a while, there are some fun LED mods in the Rav4 section (mods tab): http://darelldd.com/ev

Goodbye 1997 Bluish, Silverish Lead Acid Ev1. You will be missed.

So....you have to turn the car into GM. WHat will GM do with them?

The city I work for (as with all cities) have to have a certain number of "Clean air" vehicles. So the city bought a bunch of those fancy electric golf carts from Ford, and a few electric RAV-4's. We also have a bunch of natural gas powered police cars, which are just garbage, but that's a whole other issue..

--dan

[ QUOTE ]
dano said:
So....you have to turn the car into GM. WHat will GM do with them?

The city I work for (as with all cities) have to have a certain number of "Clean air" vehicles. So the city bought a bunch of those fancy electric golf carts from Ford, and a few electric RAV-4's.

[/ QUOTE ]
Since GM has already sent over the 300 EV1s to NY, the rest of them sit parked in a graveyard in LA. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of hardware and battery just rotting away. There have been hundreds parked there, uncharged, for a couple of years now. The perfectly-functioning batteries have certainly discharged themselves to death by now. The cars are being kept "just in case" the mandate comes back. Then they can simply return these cars to service for their clean air credits. The SAME damn cars that they just took away. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Well, if you have some Rav4's then you know what an under-powered full-function, reliable EV is like at least. NO need to go into the CNG's. They're still ICE, after all! Clean, but still ICE.

BTW, the electric golf cars were the Big Three's way through the loophole. They built 'em and gave 'em away to anybody (commerical) who'd take them. GM collected their clean air credits for cents on the dollar and rode off in to the sunset.

RIP.

well before you take it back be sure to remove all the cool parts /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Rothrandir said:
well before you take it back be sure to remove all the cool parts /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah. Did that while back. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Oops. We're out in public now, huh? Shhhh.

A sad day indeed for America.

Actually...I just erased the beginnings of a lengthy post about energy policy (or rather, lack thereof). Why bother?

Americans are happy with the world we've created. So be it.

I say we liberate all those caged EV's.


What, you think GM is gonna come after me? Low speed chase time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

that sucks, Darell. though it sounds like you are peeved with GM's practices, it appears you liked the car.

is there anything similar available?

maybe we can wire together about 5000 Tigerlight bats...

Bob

Darell - you've only got one day left to get out there and TOTAL the car! Then buy the wreckage back from the Insurance Co. - would make a fun winter re-build project (and we'd probably get to learn more about the inner workings of the EV right here at CPF!!).

Well, that's all I could come up with at the last minute... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Bob

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, or if I completely failed to see it, but why exactly are they taking them back with no plans to sell them? They do it all the time with other lease cars.

Sorry Darrel. If you want to come close, I guess you'll have to go with one of the hybrid cars. Toyota or Honda have them. Not sure who else.

[ QUOTE ]
ikendu said:
A sad day indeed for America.

Actually...I just erased the beginnings of a lengthy post about energy policy (or rather, lack thereof). Why bother?

Americans are happy with the world we've created. So be it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Energy policy? Surely you jest. We haven't had one of those since....well, since we've needed one.

[ QUOTE ]
pedalinbob said:
that sucks, Saaby. though it sounds like you are peeved with GM's practices, it appears you liked the car.

is there anything similar available?


[/ QUOTE ]Hey Bob! Darell here! How did ol' Ryan get the sucking that I deserve? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Yeah, you could say I liked the car. It is not only the quickest car 0-60 that I have yet driven in my life, but the most reliable and pleasant to drive. That it saved me $100's in gasoline and untold tons of pollution, and hundreds of trips to the gas station is just icing on the cake.

90% of our miles over the last two years have been electric - about 20,000 of them. GM tells us that the car isn't useful, so it must be true.

[ QUOTE ]
Moat5606 said:
Darell - you've only got one day left to get out there and TOTAL the car! Then buy the wreckage back from the Insurance Co. - would make a fun winter re-build project (and we'd probably get to learn more about the inner workings of the EV right here at CPF!!).

Well, that's all I could come up with at the last minute... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, if it were ONLY that easy! I am just one in a long list of casualties in this... and many things have been tried - including this (on purpose or not, is anybody's guess /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif) GM owns the car, so only they are able to "buy it back" as salvage.

[ QUOTE ]
Orion said:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed, or if I completely failed to see it, but why exactly are they taking them back with no plans to sell them? They do it all the time with other lease cars.

Sorry Darrel. If you want to come close, I guess you'll have to go with one of the hybrid cars. Toyota or Honda have them. Not sure who else.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it has been discussed. I can give you my reason for their actions, and I can give you GM's official reason... but it would take a while to do them justice.

Short versions:
Darell says - GM has no reason to move away from the status quo to make profits on vehicles. They're making money on the ICE cars they've been selling forever, so why bother to change? There will be a learning curve for the market of EVs, and car makers are pretty focussed on the bottom line each quarter - not out 1, 5, 10 years. Electrics require very little aftermarket support, so dealers lose out on what is arguably their biggest profit maker - service. Electrics last longer then ICE vehicles, and that translates directly into fewer sales for the maker and dealer as well. GM made the cars when they thought they had to. Now that there is no mandate, there is no reason to look to the future.

GM says - We tried really hard to make a business case for these, but could only lease 800 of them over four years. Who can make money on a car that only sells in the hundreds? (As with the limited sales of any production EV, the limit is purely on the supply side - GM fails to mention that there were only 800 EV1s ever offered for lease - with little (read "no") advertising, and from about 10 dealerships in the state. Every one offered was immediately leased, and there was an instant waiting list. Nobody really knows what the market is for these, since they have never been marketed. The numbers that were put in service were calculated to be the minimum to meet the ZEV mandate that loomed at the time (now crushed).)

There is SO much more to this story, and I probably shouldn't have just touched on it without having the time to do it right. But there you go - just a hint of what is happening.

To the last part of your post:
Nobody else offers a hybrid other than Honda and Toyota.

OK, time to empty my crap out of the EV1 and get ready for the final voyage in my 1997 Car of the Future.

Hello Darell,

Sorry to hear this bad news.

Tom

Darell, pass the coffee, please!

what kind of range did your EV have? how long to charge?

i think it would be a great car to have. i rarely drive over 50 miles in a single day, but have occasionally driven 500.

i agree that it would be great to REALLY develop the EV.
keep your eyes posted for the occasional article in Discover on this subject. good writeups.

Bob<---coffee!!!

Well Darell... it's not much of a consolation but... I have to give up the PK1 today... I'm not comparing but... it IS the coolest toy I've ever had in my possesion... at least it's going to a good home though... I'd be heading for Mexico with it if I knew it was going to be destroyed... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Orion said:
why exactly are they taking them back with no plans to sell them? They do it all the time with other lease cars.


[/ QUOTE ]
Oh crap! Here I was rambling on, and never actually answered the question!

GM doesn't want us to have these cars. Their contention is that the cars were a flop and that nobody wants them. The longer that their in our hands, the more egg they have on their face. Sure, I have GM's official reason too, but what fun is that?

This is the first non-defective automobile in US history that has been effectively "recalled." Have you heard of any other car that the maker does NOT want you to keep leasing or to purchase? They don't want these cars in public view.

[ QUOTE ]
pedalinbob said:
what kind of range did your EV have? how long to charge?

i think it would be a great car to have. i rarely drive over 50 miles in a single day, but have occasionally driven 500.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hey Coffee Bob!

While any of these cars are capable of about 300 miles range with current battery technology, both of my cars have about 100 miles range on antequated battery tech (The EV1 uses lead-acid!) The recharge time is artificially limited, and varies with how much you need, of course. The EV1 charged at about 25%/hour, while the Rav goes at about 20%/hour. 90% of the time, the charging happens while I sleep, so the time it takes is irrelevant. The time that *I* spend recharging is far less than anybody ever spends putting gas in an ICE. I don't have to stand there out in the cold, on greasy pavement while the car fills. I just toss the paddle in the car and go to bed. Both cars are equipped for fast charging which would allow 80% charge in under 10 minutes. Unfortunately, the lack of fast charging *charger* hardware (exists, but not distributed) is just one of the many hobbles that the EV industry has suffered at the hands of the car makers who were "giving it their all" to biuld these EVs for us.

The Tzero with 300 mile range can recharge to 80% of that capacity in under 15 minutes. Who doesn't want a 15 minute break after 250 miles of driving, I wonder? So this is where we are today. Just imagine if we had money and effort being spend on improving battery and charging technology! AS it is, EVs are responsible for the development of today's NiMH batteries back when development was actually happening!

Thanks for caring.