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Thread: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2019

  1. #151

    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by RI Chevy View Post
    Welcome to the Forum!

    Thank you! It does seem like the place to be to discuss eneloops I've been planning for ages to swap out most of my existing cells for a top brand of rechargeables and an intelligent charger on a budget, and finally getting round to it. Just ordered the Youshiko YC4000, which is a bit of a Technoline BC700 copy but has some positive reviews (haven't received it yet so can't verify), and lots of Sanyo/Pana eneloops. After reading the thread on Japanese vs Chinese manufacturing, the tropical ones seem to tick all the boxes. I'm hoping they're cheaper just because they're Summery and don't sell as well in the Winter!

  2. #152
    Flashaholic* samgab's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by ppsam View Post
    Thank you! It does seem like the place to be to discuss eneloops I've been planning for ages to swap out most of my existing cells for a top brand of rechargeables and an intelligent charger on a budget, and finally getting round to it. Just ordered the Youshiko YC4000, which is a bit of a Technoline BC700 copy but has some positive reviews (haven't received it yet so can't verify), and lots of Sanyo/Pana eneloops. After reading the thread on Japanese vs Chinese manufacturing, the tropical ones seem to tick all the boxes. I'm hoping they're cheaper just because they're Summery and don't sell as well in the Winter!
    There's no way I could tell beyond any doubt without actually testing them, but they look legit to me.
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  3. #153
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    TY Very Much for this reference chart!
    Travis

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  4. #154

    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    There is a new product on the EU market since November 2014:
    Panasonic Tropical 2100x (instead of Sanyo Tropical 1800x)

    Sanyo Tropical blister pack EU has the part number HR-3UTGB-8BP TROPICAL (or HR-3UTGB8TPE) Made in Japan, whereas
    Panasonic Tropical blister pack EU has the part number PHR3UTGB-8BP-TROPICAL (or ???) Made in ???.

    So for the Europe sales area Panasonic Europe did not make the 4th gen Eneloop AA special editions Glamour Tones or Forest Tones available but instead released the 4th gen Eneloop AA special edition (again) as Tropical Tones.

    Personally i prefer the Tropical Tones anyway because they come in 8 distinct colors and numbering, instead of mere 4.
    Last edited by kreisl; 12-16-2014 at 10:10 AM.

  5. #155
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by kreisl View Post
    There is a new product on the EU market since November 2014:
    Panasonic Tropical 2100x (instead of Sanyo Tropical 1800x)

    Sanyo Tropical blister pack EU has the part number HR-3UTGB-8BP TROPICAL (or HR-3UTGB8TPE) Made in Japan, whereas
    Panasonic Tropical blister pack EU has the part number PHR3UTGB-8BP-TROPICAL (or ???) Made in ???.

    So for the Europe sales area Panasonic Europe did not make the 4th gen Eneloop AA special editions Glamour Tones or Forest Tones available but instead released the 4th gen Eneloop AA special edition (again) as Tropical Tones.

    Personally i prefer the Tropical Tones anyway because they come in 8 distinct colors and numbering, instead of mere 4.
    Thanks for the find!
    actually the code for the newest Tropical ones is BK-3MCCE/8PT
    the colors of the Tropical ones are very nice though...

    Its quite strange and somewhat disturbing that they used the 70% rating on these (most probably) Chinese made cells.
    The 65% vs 70% was 1 thing easily noticeable.
    If they are indeed made in China, it gets more difficult to distinguish the Japan made cells from the Chinese made cells by just looking at the pictures.


    I just found out that they have another 65% ones, which are definitely made in China.
    So probably the 70% tropical ones are made in Japan...
    Can you buy them Kreisler? And take a picture of the backside?
    Last edited by ChibiM; 12-17-2014 at 06:42 AM.

  6. #156
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    old vs new

    Left: Made in Japan 3rd generation Right: Made in (Japan?) 4th generation
    I think they now make 2 versions, 1 in China and 1 in Japan...


    Both say 70% after 5 years.
    but this one below, is definitely made in China
    65% and from a Chinese website

    Backside of this 65% one, showing that its made in China
    Last edited by ChibiM; 12-17-2014 at 06:57 AM.

  7. #157

    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiM View Post
    Can you buy them Kreisler? And take a picture of the backside?
    I am taking one for de team.

    Expect to see my photo material within 1 week
    Last edited by kreisl; 12-18-2014 at 06:45 AM. Reason: delivery time xmas bizi

  8. #158
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Thanks.. looking forward to it!

  9. #159
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    Default Eneloop Gen1 vs Gen2

    Thread Merge - Norm

    The last post on this I could find was in 2011, so I am asking for more recent experience/data:

    If I have the option to keep/rely on Gen1 vs Gen2 envelops [1900mh types] – which are likely to be more reliable over the longer haul?

    I have both [Gen1 dates 2006-07 & Gen2 dates 2011-12]. They have been lightly used, more often installed than drained and recharged. Is either version inherently more robust? I can imagine that the older the more likely to breakdown or fail, but I wonder if folks here have some experience or even [] data?

    Thanks!!
    Last edited by Norm; 12-17-2014 at 01:57 PM.

  10. #160
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    Default Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ries-2005-2014

    Gen. 1s are good for 1000 cycles and the Gen. 2s are good for 1500 cycles. All things being equal, I'd opt for the Gen. 2s.

    Chris
    Last edited by Norm; 12-17-2014 at 01:58 PM.
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  11. #161
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    Default Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    I'd go with the Gen 2, for a few reasons:

    1. They're newer, so will have less years on them.
    2. They're marketed as 1500 cycles, instead of 1000 cycles.
    3. They're marketed as good down to -20C, rather than -10C (gen 1).

    But I have 8.5 year old Gen 1 Eneloops, and they still have almost the same capacity as new Gen 3 Eneloops. So, I think you'll be okay with either.

    Someone here tested some old Gen 1 against new Gen 4, and the cycle count was about double for the Gen 4. So, I think the cycle count is more than just a marketing thing. You might not get 1000/1500/1800/2100 cycles out of them, but you will get more out of the later generations. If you don't use them much, that probably doesn't matter, though.

    For longevity, I would stay away from the high capacity XXX Eneloops. I doubt they will last as long (years or cycles) as the regular Eneloops. Jamming more capacity in cells usually results in earlier failures.
    Last edited by Norm; 12-17-2014 at 01:59 PM.

  12. #162

    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by WalkIntoTheLight View Post
    For longevity, I would stay away from the high capacity XXX Eneloops. I doubt they will last as long (years or cycles) as the regular Eneloops. Jamming more capacity in cells usually results in earlier failures.
    Of course they wouldn't last as long in terms of cycles (it's on the box), but otherwise they're eneloops just as well, using the same advanced technology and everything. Unless you have some sort of weird fetish keeping the same batteries for 6-7 years and not refreshing the stock under any circumstances, I wouldn't worry too much about longevity until you wear out the cycles. Sometimes you do need those extra 550 mAh.

  13. #163
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    I'm a 74yo nubee to all the latest battery technology. I Come from the Leyden jar, Manganese, Lead Acid, Alkaline era. Add wax dipped capacitors & 4 pin 01A vacuum tubes also.

    I have been seeing lots of the Eneloop discussion and wonder just what it's all about? Sanyo Eneloops, Panasonic Eneloops, etc. Are they a WONDER NIMH? Why isn't a Eneloop branded Eneloop, instead of all the other different brands? Is Eneloop some kind of chemistry that's different than other NIMH batteries? Isn't there other NIMH batteries that are just as good? I bought some Tenergy 9V pre-charged that claim long shelf life and they seem to do a better job with a stun device than Alkaline. How do Tenergy AA & AAA compare with Eneloop's?

    Can you help out this old Phart?
    Last edited by Uncle_Tom; 12-24-2014 at 10:24 PM.

  14. #164
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by moozooh View Post
    Of course they wouldn't last as long in terms of cycles (it's on the box), but otherwise they're eneloops just as well, using the same advanced technology and everything. Unless you have some sort of weird fetish keeping the same batteries for 6-7 years and not refreshing the stock under any circumstances, I wouldn't worry too much about longevity until you wear out the cycles. Sometimes you do need those extra 550 mAh.
    Actually the Eneloop Pro's probably would last that long as well unless your draining them every other day. The 2000mAh Eneloops do quite well and they are more ideal for everyday usage. The extra 550 mAh is indeed useful but hardly necessary unless you absolutely need that extra capacity in a single amount of time, such as cameras. They can be beneficial in flashlights as well, but considering the price difference you would have to be pretty desperate to get extra capacity into a cell with reduced cycles. With that being said i only need the high capacity cells as extras or emergency batteries. Longevity matters to some people, besides the whole idea to have rechargeables is to use them over and over again.

    You would get better longevity out of the 2000mAh Eneloops than the 2550mAh Pros. If people didn't care about longevity there would be no reason to have smart chargers with -dV. We'd simply just use the timer chargers and throw away batteries every year when they go bad. But since we do have smart chargers, maybe perhaps people do want their cells to last. It might seem crazy but 2100 cycles in which the battery will die of old age before the cycles get used up versus 500 cycles in which the battery will wear out quicker than the cell ages. So it's a pretty big difference and it could mean the difference between having a battery last 4 years or having one that lasts 8 years before the cycles are used up. I am one of those folks who prefer to get all i can out of NiMH batteries and i'll use crap batteries in low drain devices that work just fine, just the occasional recharge whenever needed.

  15. #165
    *Flashaholic* HKJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle_Tom View Post
    I have been seeing lots of the Eneloop discussion and wonder just what it's all about? Sanyo Eneloops, Panasonic Eneloops, etc. Are they a WONDER NIMH? Why isn't a Eneloop branded Eneloop, instead of all the other different brands? Is Eneloop some kind of chemistry that's different than other NIMH batteries? Isn't there other NIMH batteries that are just as good? I bought some Tenergy 9V pre-charged that claim long shelf life and they seem to do a better job with a stun device than Alkaline. How do Tenergy AA & AAA compare with Eneloop's?

    Can you help out this old Phart?
    "Are they a WONDER NIMH?" basically yes, the FDK factory (That manufacturers eneloops) has been on the forefront of NiMH technology for some years and makes the best NiMH battery available. At least if you are looking for low self discharge (Can stay charged for years when not used) and long life in a battery.

    Eneloop are not easy to get in all parts of the world and because they are know to be a good brand they are also more expensive than many other brands.
    The FDK factory producing the eneloop batteries has more capacity than eneloop requires and are using the remaining capacity to make batteries for other brands, usual using the same process as they do for eneloops. These other brands can be cheaper and can also be available in other parts of the world, this makes it very interesting to find them.

    Note: The FDK factory is now owned by Fujitsu and Panasonic has moved part of the eneloop production to China and it looks like the Chinese factory cannot match the FDK quality.
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  16. #166
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote: "Note: The FDK factory is now owned by Fujitsu and Panasonic has moved part of the eneloop production to China and it looks like the Chinese factory cannot match the FDK quality."

    Does this mean it would be a good idea to purchase discontinued Sanyo Eneloops to avoid Paney Chinese versions? I'm in USA and saw both offered on Amazon.

  17. #167
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    I would say no. Including shipping cost the price difference to brand new 4th. generation japanese eneloops will be marginal.
    Production date and generation improvement are also worth taken into account. Especially the first since nimh cells deteriorates over time , even when not in use.

    I don't know how old these discontinued sanyo cells would be.
    But beware. The only two ads I took time to see on Amazon was respectively generation 1 and 2 cells , even though the image of one of the ads was of a generation 3 blister pack and was also sold as generation 3 :-(

    I wouldn't worry too much about getting chinese cells if you are buying from an authorized dealer located in USA like amazon usa.
    As far as I know chinese made cells has not yet been dispatched by amazon usa.
    Last edited by Viking; 12-25-2014 at 05:04 PM.

  18. #168
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking View Post
    I would say no. Including shipping cost the price difference to brand new 4th. generation japanese eneloops will be marginal.
    Production date and generation improvement are also worth taken into account. Especially the first since nimh cells deteriorates over time , even when not in use.

    I don't know how old these discontinued sanyo cells would be.
    But beware. The only two ads I took time to see on Amazon was respectively generation 1 and 2 cells , even though the image of one of the ads was of a generation 3 blister pack and was also sold as generation 3 :-(

    I wouldn't worry too much about getting chinese cells if you are buying from an authorized dealer located in USA like amazon usa.
    As far as I know chinese made cells has not yet been dispatched by amazon usa.
    That's good to hear.


    _

  19. #169
    Flashaholic* ChibiM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    If you are registered at CPFMarketplace from before 1st December 2014, you can enter my give away to get a chance to win a free pack of 8*AA 4th gen. eneloop forest tones (limited edition)
    See THIS link for info and participation.

  20. #170
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightDistortions View Post
    ...I am one of those folks who prefer to get all i can out of NiMH batteries and i'll use crap batteries in low drain devices that work just fine, just the occasional recharge whenever needed.
    Ditto, here. My "good" Eneloops were put in service in December 2008, so, six years old, and going strong. My high-resistance 2007 Eneloops still serve well in low-amperage devices. Hard to bring myself to toss them when they're still useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle_Tom View Post
    ...I have been seeing lots of the Eneloop discussion and wonder just what it's all about?...
    I find it easiest to describe them this way: Where normal NiMh cells are charge-to-use, Eneloops are use-then-charge. Because they maintain their charge in storage, you can use them more like you would use primary (alkaline) cells, without really having to worry much about them self-discharging on the shelf or in the device.

    But wait, there's more: Eneloops have also been tested by members of this forum to stand up to more abuse than most other NiMh cells. If I recall correctly, they've been tested with loads as high as 10 amps, and held up well.

    Plus, no worries about leakage, as is common with alkalines.

    So, are they a "wonder cell?" Others may disagree, but I certainly think so.
    Last edited by WDG; 12-26-2014 at 11:07 AM.


  21. #171
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by WDG View Post
    I find it easiest to describe them this way: Where normal NiMh cells are charge-to-use, Eneloops are use-then-charge. Because they maintain their charge in storage, you can use them more like you would use primary (alkaline) cells, without really having to worry much about them self-discharging on the shelf or in the device.
    Extremely well said!

  22. #172
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    I certainly thank you all for your feedback to my earlier inquiry. Now I have to try figuring out what generation Eneloops are being sold, it's not always clearly stated.

    Reliability, capacity & LSD is my primary concern. Most AA & AAA batt's will be used in camera strobe lights, wireless remote triggers, wireless microphones & such. Majority of my flashlights use 14500, 18650 & 123a.

    Should have done more research before I got suckered into buying low cost Chinese NMHI off eBay. I'm not a cheap-skate, but being on fixed income, saving a buck or two helps. Now, after reading the experiences of so many CPF members, I realize it probably wasn't a bargain after all. From now on, I'll buy Eneloop, until better options materialize.
    Last edited by Uncle_Tom; 12-26-2014 at 06:21 PM.

  23. #173

    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle_Tom View Post
    I certainly thank you all for your feedback to my earlier inquiry. Now I have to try figuring out what generation Eneloops are being sold, it's not always clearly stated.

    Reliability, capacity & LSD is my primary concern. Most AA & AAA batt's will be used in camera strobe lights, wireless remote triggers, wireless microphones & such. Majority of my flashlights use 14500, 18650 & 123a.

    Should have done more research before I got suckered into buying low cost Chinese NMHI off eBay. I'm not a cheap-skate, but being on fixed income, saving a buck or two helps. Now, after reading the experiences of so many CPF members, I realize it probably wasn't a bargain after all. From now on, I'll buy Eneloop, until better options materialize.
    That's not being a cheap-skate, you were just trying to save a buck. Nothing wrong with that. I would suggest, however, never to buy anything on eBay unless you are 100% sure on what you are buying, and the conditions under which you are buying them.

    As far as Eneloops, you really can't go wrong. You will find that the prices aren't much different from each generation. In some cases older generations cost a lot more for "designer wraps!" I would just buy the latest version. If you use them regularly the difference in cost will be nearly non-existent. Also, wait for holiday sales, etc. You can find them fairly cheap.

    Also, this is a matter of opinion, but I find the Eneloop "Pro" batteries don't really warrant such a premium. If you regularly take care of your Eneloops and keep them charged, you're just wasting your money. With the exception being a heavy use situation that would force you to swap out the batteries too often. Even then, I would weigh the pros/cons vs cost.




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  24. #174
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by moozooh View Post
    Of course they wouldn't last as long in terms of cycles (it's on the box), but otherwise they're eneloops just as well, using the same advanced technology and everything. Unless you have some sort of weird fetish keeping the same batteries for 6-7 years and not refreshing the stock under any circumstances, I wouldn't worry too much about longevity until you wear out the cycles. Sometimes you do need those extra 550 mAh.
    Yup, I do keep my batteries for more than 6-7 years, and expect them to still perform well. While I do have plenty of newer Eneloops, I still use Eneloops that are now 8.5 years old, and they still have almost full original capacity when drained at 2 amps. Basically, these 8 year old Eneloops are still as good as new. I've probably put on about 200 cycles on them, so they're not approaching anywhere close to their 1000 cycle rating, but I expect most of my Eneloops will never approach 1000 cycles (or 2100 cycles for the newer ones). Most will probably see far less than 100 cycles, as they are used as replacements for alkalines where I change them about once per year.

    I do expect my Eneloops to last well over 10 years before they start showing signs of age (like high internal resistance and reduced capacity). This is why I buy the regular Eneloops, and not the high capacity ones. I simply to not believe that in 10 years the high capacity Eneloops will perform anywhere near as well as the regular Eneloops, if they work at all.

    My previous experience with high capacity (non LSD) cells is that they do not last anywhere near as long as lower capacity cells. Until I see proof that this does not apply with LSD cells, I'll continue to buy regular Eneloops.

  25. #175

    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by ChibiM View Post
    Thanks.. looking forward to it!
    well, some Polish youtuber beat me to it. one can see the backside of the package clearly and the marking on the batteries too:



    The video proves that the Panasonic batteries are made in Japan (marking on battery and on retail package) and that they are 4th gen Eneloops (see model number labeling "BK-" and the "2100x" claim). The retail package costs ~19.95€ mas shipping, nice price and more convenient than importing 4th gen Forest Tones from the Japan imho.

    When i get to it, i could post a HD photo of the batteries in the DC2-thread along with my sizable collection of battery round holders, cheers
    Last edited by kreisl; 12-27-2014 at 07:19 AM.

  26. #176

    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    WDG above mentions the main reason I dumped all my Alkaline's: "leakage". This reason alone is why I decided to go all Eneloop in my home, and ALL my remote controls. Ever try to find and buy a remote for an older device, like TV, AVR, etc.? If you are lucky enough to find a replacement remote, the cost will usually shock you, and make the cost of switching to Eneloops, and a quality charger, a no brainer.

  27. #177
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    When I said "Reliability, capacity & LSD is my primary concern", I should have added NO LEAKAGE! to front of list.

  28. #178

    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    The replacement remote for my TV is very cheap last I checked but since 2 LSD batteries will keep it running for a year or 2 on one charge without failure I prefer to go that route.

  29. #179

    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    I have just ordered these for my EA41 torch, I hope their not fake.......

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00JZBX8D...986871_TE_item

  30. #180
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    Default Re: Overview: All eneloop batteries; 2005-2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil2015 View Post
    I have just ordered these for my EA41 torch, I hope their not fake.......

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00JZBX8D...986871_TE_item
    They look legit to me...

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