So much Surefire Confusion! EB1/2, LX2 Ultra, E2D Ultra, P2x, Regulated, etc...

Norm said:

:welcome:

Your duplicate thread has been deleted - Norm

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Al_Cohol said:

Long time creeper, first time poster here.

So I recently decided I wanted to get another light or two, cause one can never have enough. I wanted to get one or two solid lights, one that I could carry everyday that I would trust my life with, for when I can't comfortably carry or conceal my Glock 19 with my TLR-1 light attached to it. And another higher lumen light to have by my bedside and to use for when I irrigate my orchards, which is almost always at night. I have an Elzetta that I usually use but I would like something with more lumens and since my Elzetta is really mean't for duty on my AR, I'd prefer to have a dedicated (pocketable, with a clip) high lumen flashlight for that job. I have always looked at Surefires but never bought them because of price. But more recently their build quality has begun to appeal to me. So I started looking into and researching what they had to offer.

I love the EB1 as an edc light. Good specs. And since I plan on have a kydex carrier built for it to wear on my waistband, the head size doesn't matter as much to me. So I saw the tail caps they have to offer and after looking into the tactical/twisty tail cap I really liked that. Instant brightness without having to worry about accidentally double clicking into low mode. Then I start seeing stuff about an eventual release of an EB2, so that halted that decision. As a long time Apple user and owner, I know to plan my purchases carefully around release dates. Is this EB2 just a major rumor or is this definite and soon?

Also while searching for my bedside/irrigating flashlight I saw the E2D Ultra. Love the specs, but it has the clicky tail cap that I did not want to get. I see a SHOT Show '13 video on youtube displaying the LX2 Ultra and it has the twisty tail cap that I wanted. Seemed perfect! So after a couple Google's I find out it won't ever actually be released and the only option is a LX2 Lumamax which has 200 lumens. Thats the same as the EB1 and doesn't quite have enough lumens to fill my needs (wants). Then I start seeing stuff about how the EB2 will be the LX2 replacement with the Ultra head, so does that mean the EB2 will be two cell? Obviously this is just rumor mill speculation, so I don't expect a definite clear answer, but it does confuse the heck out of me, so any input is appreciated.

I have looked into the P2X lights, love the price. Don't love the lack of a pocket clip and the large head design. I do like the single output version features though.

Also, what is this regulation? I thought it mean't that the light outputs the same full lumens until the battery dies, versus my Streamlight ProTac 2L that slowly gets more dim each minute of use (which I hate). Then after seeing charts from people posting on here it seems like the Surefires do that as well where they drop lumens after just a bit of use. Is that incorrect?

So if anyone can help me with my confusion that would be great. Sorry for the longish rant. Thank you.

Also, I have looked into other brands, but didn't really like what anyone else had to offer either. An EB1 and LX2 Ultra would have been the perfect set up for me.

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tonkem said:

To start, welcome to the forum.

The EB2 is supposed to be coming to replace the canceled LX2 Ultra, but no one knows when or if it will even be this year. There was a thread started regarding the Eb2, but was shut down because information was not ready to be disclosed by Surefire(how I undersand it).
EB1 is not regulated on high, as you can see here: http://flashlightguide.com/2013/05/review-surefire-eb1-led-flashlight/ so you will not like that if you did not like it in your streamlight.

I have a P2X, that my wife carries in the purse, and it is a great light that has a great beam, but the switching is not ideal for tactical use.

Might be worth your while to wait for the EB2... when and if it comes out.

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Al_Cohol said:

I wouldn't be opposed to the "Tactical" single mode version. How do you like the beam on that light? The shots I've seen of the beam seem a bit floodier than the ultra, with less throw. Which probably would be good for my uses. My Elzetta does have great throw but I've always felt it lacked in the spill department a bit when trying to light up areas in my orchard looking for gophers in the dark.

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Al_Cohol said:

Long time creeper, first time poster here.

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Al_Cohol said:

So I recently decided I wanted to get another light or two, cause one can never have enough. I wanted to get one or two solid lights, one that I could carry everyday that I would trust my life with, for when I can't comfortably carry or conceal my Glock 19 with my TLR-1 light attached to it. And another higher lumen light to have by my bedside and to use for when I irrigate my orchards, which is almost always at night. I have an Elzetta that I usually use but I would like something with more lumens and since my Elzetta is really mean't for duty on my AR, I'd prefer to have a dedicated (pocketable, with a clip) high lumen flashlight for that job. I have always looked at Surefires but never bought them because of price. But more recently their build quality has begun to appeal to me. So I started looking into and researching what they had to offer.

I love the EB1 as an edc light. Good specs. And since I plan on have a kydex carrier built for it to wear on my waistband, the head size doesn't matter as much to me. So I saw the tail caps they have to offer and after looking into the tactical/twisty tail cap I really liked that. Instant brightness without having to worry about accidentally double clicking into low mode. Then I start seeing stuff about an eventual release of an EB2, so that halted that decision. As a long time Apple user and owner, I know to plan my purchases carefully around release dates. Is this EB2 just a major rumor or is this definite and soon?

Also while searching for my bedside/irrigating flashlight I saw the E2D Ultra. Love the specs, but it has the clicky tail cap that I did not want to get. I see a SHOT Show '13 video on youtube displaying the LX2 Ultra and it has the twisty tail cap that I wanted. Seemed perfect! So after a couple Google's I find out it won't ever actually be released and the only option is a LX2 Lumamax which has 200 lumens. Thats the same as the EB1 and doesn't quite have enough lumens to fill my needs (wants). Then I start seeing stuff about how the EB2 will be the LX2 replacement with the Ultra head, so does that mean the EB2 will be two cell? Obviously this is just rumor mill speculation, so I don't expect a definite clear answer, but it does confuse the heck out of me, so any input is appreciated.

I have looked into the P2X lights, love the price. Don't love the lack of a pocket clip and the large head design. I do like the single output version features though.

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Al_Cohol said:

Also, what is this regulation? I thought it mean't that the light outputs the same full lumens until the battery dies, versus my Streamlight ProTac 2L that slowly gets more dim each minute of use (which I hate). Then after seeing charts from people posting on here it seems like the Surefires do that as well where they drop lumens after just a bit of use. Is that incorrect?

Click to expand...

Also, what is this regulation? I thought it mean't that the light outputs the same full lumens until the battery dies, versus my Streamlight ProTac 2L that slowly gets more dim each minute of use (which I hate). Then after seeing charts from people posting on here it seems like the Surefires do that as well where they drop lumens after just a bit of use. Is that incorrect?

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Machete God said:

Welcome to CPF, nevertheless

You can have an LX2 Ultra (or EB2T, if you will) of sorts right now, if you don't mind a black head on a grey body and spending a bit more. Buy the E2DL Ultra and an LX2, take the head from the E2DL U and put in on the body of the LX2 - voila! A pocketable, throwy but with very useful spill (see E2DL Ultra reviews elsewhere), two-stage and tactically correct 500 lumens flashlight.

I am only guessing, but I suspect SureFire cancelled the LX2 only because they could bring it out as an EB2 Tactical.

There are different regulation behaviours. The flashlight putting out the same amount of light until the battery dies is FLAT regulation. Some users find this undesirable, as there (usually) is no warning of the "cliff drop" at the end of the brightness chart when the battery gives up, leaving you with no light to get home. IMHO, better designed flashlights give you a flat output for most of the battery life, then a gradual dimming as the battery energy dwindles.

Anyway, the SureFire EB1 has that downhill (continuously getting dimmer) regulation pattern because the CR123A battery it runs on is incapable of supplying the current it needs. I can't personally attest to this (mine only arrives in a few days) but other users have reported back that it (the continuously declining output in high mode) is a non-issue in real life use. The EB1 exhibits a flat output graph if run on 2x Eneloops (which easily supplies the current) but that turns it into a different light.

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carrot said:

I had to coax it out of a SF rep, but "Fall 2013" is their target for the EB2. Knowing SF, Fall 2014 seems more likely. :shrug:

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MatthewSB said:

When comparing lights like the LX2 and P2X you have to look at more than lumens. The LX2 has a focused TIR optic while the P2X is much floodier.

The P2X is my favorite hand light, as the light is floody and the low mode is bright enough for 95% of my uses. On high mode this light illuminates most of my yard, with enough spill to make me feel like I have a pretty good grasp of what is going on around me (unlike with the tighly focused TIR lights like the LX2 and E1B). Since I put a lanyard from a 6P, it's much more difficult for me to lose this light in the dark because I religously tighten the lanyard around my wrist.

I keep my LX2 in my dayhike bag, because with the smaller EB1 I can't justify the bigger light for day to day use. That said, I like the feel of the 2 cell light, the slim diameter, the push button tacticool tailcap, and I especially like the spinny integral lanyard loop. The LX2 is harder for me to lose in the woods thanks to its length, the deep carry pocket clip, and the lanyard.



Regulation is something that mostly isn't noticed by the human eye, but people here get all upset over.

I've never noticed "the drop" using my EB1T. I suppose if I shined it at a white wall for 2 hours while the battery drained I might be able to notice a difference, but since I don't do that it's not a problem for me.

If you want to pocket carry a light, get the E1B before they're all gone - the tapered head doesn't chew up pockets as quickly as the straight sided EB1 will. I own both lights and the E1B is my EDC light due to its shape, in spite of the power difference and the clicky tailcap that I don't really like.

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Al_Cohol said:

... As far as the EB1 regulation, I definitely can notice the drop in brightness with my Steamlight PT2L, which is why it got demoted to Jeep duty. Its bright, in lumen rating close to the EB1, and I think thinner, but I would just notice after a couple uses or a bit of uses it would be noticeably dimmer. So I'd be cautious to buy another light as expensive as the EB1 and have it perform very similar, especially in terms of regulation. I look forward to your input when your EB1 arrives...

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Al_Cohol said:

... Do the new ultra lights have useable spill? I understand they aren't floody like the P2X, but curious how much different they are in real life and whether they are just a hot spot. Youtube just doesn't give good examples.

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